How much horsepower will a stock d17 make?
Man Andy you and me have like the same ideas. I did all my work myself and i have messed up many times just like you. I have never blown a motor but i have blown up other stuff or just did noob mistakes. Its true what you say about doing your own stuff and learning. Besides that now when something goes wrong we can fix it. Good luck again and any update when you are going to push your motor to the limit? I would like to know so when i take my car again i can know how safe i will feel about pushing my car to the limit.
I do must of work my self with the guidance of good mechanics/ racers.
Ask any one that knows me.
All I can say is reseach, research then execute.
measure twice, cut once.
That is why is taking me longer to reach the 300 hp.
Barney did it but his car is no longer functionable.
And he threw money at that car like if it was a stiper.
I have two engines one stock with 20k setting on my garage and the one in my car.
I blew a head gasket once then I reseach for the ARP head studs my self.
That is how you and every one knows what the part # is.
Then I never had the same problem again.
POSTED LAST YEAR:
There were always there just needed to do some digging.
The Honda Factory part number for D17 lx is
HP 9005-PM3-00
The 95 civic si 1.6 vtec D16 engine uses the same Honda factory bolts.
ARP makes studs for this engine and it will fit ours.
ARP part # 2084301 Honda D-16 HSK for 1.6 SHOC vtec application. 10 studs
NOTE: ARP makes two types Z&Y (OURS is Z)
All 88 thru 95 civics and others with same engine use the same type of head bolts.
Mine are installed and work just fine.
Prices range from $125 to $150
For dose that can't wait I located two sets here in Florida.
The same goes to how I found the sleeves, pistons etc.
After that no more blown head gaskets and never blown an engine.
My motor is not undestructible but it has lasted longer that all four of yours.
That is the relevance of the question.
And yes I'm now tuning with EMS and puting some crazy numbers.
But due to reseach I know that the axels will go.
More reseach told me that with thermo cycling (cost efective) the axels they will handle up to 300hp.
But I'm not going to max my tuning that far (not yet)
I'm not going to test them and break them just to see how much they will handle.
The problem that I see with your posts is that all you ever talk about is your tuning and how much power your stock engine will take.
Well, this being an informative forum I feel that you may be mis-leading the newbies into beliveing what you say, and they will make all the same mistakes you did with out knowing that you blew 4 engines on the procces.
Ask any one that knows me.
All I can say is reseach, research then execute.
measure twice, cut once.
That is why is taking me longer to reach the 300 hp.
Barney did it but his car is no longer functionable.
And he threw money at that car like if it was a stiper.
I have two engines one stock with 20k setting on my garage and the one in my car.
I blew a head gasket once then I reseach for the ARP head studs my self.
That is how you and every one knows what the part # is.
Then I never had the same problem again.
POSTED LAST YEAR:
There were always there just needed to do some digging.
The Honda Factory part number for D17 lx is
HP 9005-PM3-00
The 95 civic si 1.6 vtec D16 engine uses the same Honda factory bolts.
ARP makes studs for this engine and it will fit ours.
ARP part # 2084301 Honda D-16 HSK for 1.6 SHOC vtec application. 10 studs
NOTE: ARP makes two types Z&Y (OURS is Z)
All 88 thru 95 civics and others with same engine use the same type of head bolts.
Mine are installed and work just fine.
Prices range from $125 to $150
For dose that can't wait I located two sets here in Florida.
The same goes to how I found the sleeves, pistons etc.
After that no more blown head gaskets and never blown an engine.
My motor is not undestructible but it has lasted longer that all four of yours.
That is the relevance of the question.
And yes I'm now tuning with EMS and puting some crazy numbers.
But due to reseach I know that the axels will go.
More reseach told me that with thermo cycling (cost efective) the axels they will handle up to 300hp.
But I'm not going to max my tuning that far (not yet)
I'm not going to test them and break them just to see how much they will handle.
The problem that I see with your posts is that all you ever talk about is your tuning and how much power your stock engine will take.
Well, this being an informative forum I feel that you may be mis-leading the newbies into beliveing what you say, and they will make all the same mistakes you did with out knowing that you blew 4 engines on the procces.
Last edited by Supermex; Jan 12, 2006 at 07:27 PM.
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350 
What could I be misleading people into? I'm not posting up false information. I encourage anyone to get what they can with what they have. I can't post in every one of my posts/threads that I've had damages due to mistakes, that's unavoidable if you're doing it all yourself.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 
Andy did not blow 4 motors. He described mistakes he made in a previous post in this thread. The cost of another d17 is very very cheap, which is why he keeps getting stock ones. I'm sure that the cost of all 3 relacement motors he as already purchased over the last 4 years is significantly lower than the cost of building the bottom end, especially considering the availability of parts for the d17.
At this point, Andy is doing it right: good parts with proper tuning. Tuning is the "make or break" portion of any setup. There is definitely something to be said for an OEM honda block.
Andy speaks the truth: he is not at all misleading the new guys, he's simply trying to find out what a stock motor can handle with proper tuning. What a stock motor can handle with proper tuning is a lot different that what a stock motor can handle with ghetto hacks/no tuning. Newbies can learn from Andy's mistakes by going straight to proper tuning with modifications! So, Andy's contribution is nothing but positive! He's already proven that 250whp can be made reliably with a stock motor, and I believe 300whp is attainable as well.
Regarding the discussion a few pages ago about blowing gaskets and pressure, cylinder pressure, not boost psi, is what makes power and what kills motors. When a motor is detonating, cylinder pressures go through the roof (the cylinder pressure under detonation is significantly higher than that of a controlled burn). Detonation is what causes heads to lift, gaskets to blow and ringlands to crack. Without proper tuning, its easy to shoot cylinder pressures through the roof with detonation.
Andy, are you still going to let me tune this thing when it's ready? I'm really looking forward to it
At this point, Andy is doing it right: good parts with proper tuning. Tuning is the "make or break" portion of any setup. There is definitely something to be said for an OEM honda block.
Andy speaks the truth: he is not at all misleading the new guys, he's simply trying to find out what a stock motor can handle with proper tuning. What a stock motor can handle with proper tuning is a lot different that what a stock motor can handle with ghetto hacks/no tuning. Newbies can learn from Andy's mistakes by going straight to proper tuning with modifications! So, Andy's contribution is nothing but positive! He's already proven that 250whp can be made reliably with a stock motor, and I believe 300whp is attainable as well.
Regarding the discussion a few pages ago about blowing gaskets and pressure, cylinder pressure, not boost psi, is what makes power and what kills motors. When a motor is detonating, cylinder pressures go through the roof (the cylinder pressure under detonation is significantly higher than that of a controlled burn). Detonation is what causes heads to lift, gaskets to blow and ringlands to crack. Without proper tuning, its easy to shoot cylinder pressures through the roof with detonation.
Andy, are you still going to let me tune this thing when it's ready? I'm really looking forward to it
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 297 IDK If a newbie reads this and thinks they are gunna slap on a kit one weekend, make 300whp without tuning, then let em blow the thing up, they'd be deserving. Its not misleading by any means to post up what you have legitimatly done. I dont see how anyone could see it as misleading. Mex, you drove your car for a while without a turbo though, right?? Not to mention it seems that you havent even pushed it hard till just recently. Im sure your built motor will take whatever you throw at it now. Andy has been going for it all since he had first turboed the car, on a stock motor. Seems kinda like an unfair judgement. Not trying to start an argument, just making an observation as a third party.
Registered!!
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,555
Likes: 0
From: familycar's Moms Room
Rep Power: 299 First off we dont want newbies thinking " Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.
Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Registered!!
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,555
Likes: 0
From: familycar's Moms Room
Rep Power: 299
Originally Posted by 02fpcivic
IDK If a newbie reads this and thinks they are gunna slap on a kit one weekend, make 300whp without tuning, then let em blow the thing up, they'd be deserving. Its not misleading by any means to post up what you have legitimatly done. I dont see how anyone could see it as misleading. Mex, you drove your car for a while without a turbo though, right?? Not to mention it seems that you havent even pushed it hard till just recently. Im sure your built motor will take whatever you throw at it now. Andy has been going for it all since he had first turboed the car, on a stock motor. Seems kinda like an unfair judgement. Not trying to start an argument, just making an observation as a third party.
Seems like were on the same page, SuperMex is a good member to use as an example. He knew what he wanted and took the propers steps to boost for high whp. JDM tuner~ Build it them boost.
USDM tuner~ Boost, leave the stock block as is.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,318
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327
Originally Posted by DIZZLE
First off we dont want newbies thinking " Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.
Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by DIZZLE
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by servion
Andy, are you still going to let me tune this thing when it's ready? I'm really looking forward to it
Oh yeah, I went down to San Antonio and met up with Randy last night. Dude, that car is so clean, kick *** job on the tune.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by DIZZLE
First off we dont want newbies thinking " Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.
Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
What's the definition of reliability? Is a car reliable after being driven for 1 year, but not after 364 days? Or is it reliable at 2 years, but not one day before that? See what I'm getting at? Andy made the power, raced it multiple times at the track and then still drove it around as well (and I'm sure the regular driving was very spirited
). It would still be driving around fine if he didn't do a ghetto-*** hack on his return line. Registered!!
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,555
Likes: 0
From: familycar's Moms Room
Rep Power: 299 
Originally Posted by DIZZLE
First off we dont want newbies thinking " Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.
Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Let me slap a turbo kit on and boost it to 300 whp", without taking the PROPER steps to due so. Tuning is only 50% of the process, eventually the stock internals will give.Second, NOBODY has proven that 250 whp is "RELIABLE" on a d17. Making a couple dyno runs and not blowing something up does not mean its reliable. If he drove with 250 whp for a year or 2 then you could make that claim.
Im not doubting 300 whp can be done, actually im 99% sure it could be done, But its about RELIABILITY, which you will not have with a stock block producing 200% x's its intended power level.
And Anydys contributions arent all positive, Most of his responces are of a negative demeaner. TNAAF, is great though, Hes always be more than willing to help out members without putting down at the same time.
BIG PROPS TO YOU TNAAF
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350 Just out of curiosity...what does reliability or what you think that my contributions are have to do with making a certain amount of horsepower on a d17? Is it possible to stay on the topic of the title? Maybe that's why people think I'm an a$$hole, because this site is full of ADD children!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,318
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327
Originally Posted by andyman97
Just out of curiosity...what does reliability or what you think that my contributions are have to do with making a certain amount of horsepower on a d17? Is it possible to stay on the topic of the title? Maybe that's why people think I'm an a$$hole, because this site is full of ADD children!
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by tfnaaf
What are ADD children? People like yourself that suport a company or service?
The car will be done when it's done. I'm not rushing to get it done so that I can impress people here. When you spend as much money as I have over the past six months, you tend to start running out. A place to live, bills and food come first for me, so again, it's done when it's done.
Originally Posted by andyman97
My point exactly.
The car will be done when it's done. I'm not rushing to get it done so that I can impress people here. When you spend as much money as I have over the past six months, you tend to start running out. A place to live, bills and food come first for me, so again, it's done when it's done.
The car will be done when it's done. I'm not rushing to get it done so that I can impress people here. When you spend as much money as I have over the past six months, you tend to start running out. A place to live, bills and food come first for me, so again, it's done when it's done.
figures you couldnt answer my simple question...your like that kid that did the all motor setup..everytime you ask a question about anything your a ****...o well....sure not worth the wait.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 if you guys keep harassing him, you are going to get the thread deleted.
Andy is an a$$ some times, but he knows what he is doing.
Dont worry about the motor. He will have it done. I have been to his house, seen his garage, ate his food, taunted his pet dog..... He is a real person with a real life. And he actually has all the parts he says he does. He isnt some 14 year old kid posting pictures of cars he got off the internet and talking about mods he could never afford.
Andy is an a$$ some times, but he knows what he is doing.
Dont worry about the motor. He will have it done. I have been to his house, seen his garage, ate his food, taunted his pet dog..... He is a real person with a real life. And he actually has all the parts he says he does. He isnt some 14 year old kid posting pictures of cars he got off the internet and talking about mods he could never afford.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 30,677
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607
Originally Posted by turboengnr
if you guys keep harassing him, you are going to get the thread deleted.
Now there is a idea. In the past 2 pages i have not seen any informative posts.....especially relating to the thread title.
Let's please keep this on topic, if you have issues with someone, then take it to PM's.
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by Michalo187
ok................................Ne ways whats the newest update of when your gonna push it to the limit?
That's another reason I don't want to set a timeline because you look forward to that date and do almost anything to finish by then (which entails cutting corners and things get damaged which gets me into this predicament from the start.) I don't want to set myself up for failure unless it's from power. So again, it happens when it happens. I'd like to finish it tomorrow but I don't have the time or money to get it done as quickly as I'd like.
I will yield a 300 whp dyno sheet, though, no question.
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by turboengnr
if you guys keep harassing him, you are going to get the thread deleted.
Andy is an a$$ some times, but he knows what he is doing.
Dont worry about the motor. He will have it done. I have been to his house, seen his garage, ate his food, taunted his pet dog..... He is a real person with a real life. And he actually has all the parts he says he does. He isnt some 14 year old kid posting pictures of cars he got off the internet and talking about mods he could never afford.
Andy is an a$$ some times, but he knows what he is doing.
Dont worry about the motor. He will have it done. I have been to his house, seen his garage, ate his food, taunted his pet dog..... He is a real person with a real life. And he actually has all the parts he says he does. He isnt some 14 year old kid posting pictures of cars he got off the internet and talking about mods he could never afford.
But unlike me, you don't know what you're doing
yeah timelines don't go the way we always want them too. My timeline was to have 300whp by december. Now i am just thinking of getting rid of the Civic and buying an 03 Cobra. But good luck with everything and let us know how we can help.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285
Originally Posted by andyman97
Gee, thanks alot, Mike, you're an a$$ too
But unlike me, you don't know what you're doing
But unlike me, you don't know what you're doing
And since it came from me, you werent offended.
And i never know what im doing anymore.....
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,318
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327 Not sure how many of you have been following the Full-Race "Pinks" car @ http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1496464&page=1 But here is a dyno of a stock sleeve "D" I dont see in the post if it has aftermarket pistons/rods or not thou, either way enjoy....
It took 30lbs of boost to make 460whp on a stock sleeved d-series. I guess the rumor that stock sleeved d-series blocks not being able to take high horsepower is false. " -- Evans Tuning
Last edited by tfnaaf; Jan 18, 2006 at 10:03 PM.
Registered!!
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,864
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Rep Power: 281 ^^
For me 100lb of tq at 2000 rpm look ok.
Gearbox, I think you are looking at green line, but that's hp's....lol
...wow, my engine has 170lb of torque at 3200, so I'm kind of ahead here...hehehe
For me 100lb of tq at 2000 rpm look ok.
Gearbox, I think you are looking at green line, but that's hp's....lol
...wow, my engine has 170lb of torque at 3200, so I'm kind of ahead here...hehehe
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 51,241
Likes: 20
From: NV
Rep Power: 812 im looking at the blue line and its comparable to a stock civic until you get up past 4k rpms. i couldn't deal with that it basically means you have a stock daily driver cause you can't go revving it to 7k every time.
