How much horsepower will a stock d17 make?
Drunken Master-7thgen Ninja
iTrader: (21)
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,976
Likes: 0
From: georgia
Rep Power: 336 
gearbox, please tell him what happened to your head when you got your pnp done. how much pressure can a stock hg handle? and how much pressure did your pnp head have? i thin he said it could handle 138 and it was at 200.
yes, the mixture of air/fuel being compressed has something to do with it.
idk your turbo setup. so 15psi on a t28 should be different that your turbo? 15 psi is 15 psi. its not how much psi the turbo can push is. its the volume of air/minute that it can blow.
anyway, 4psi is already compressed air flowing into the chamber. then it gets compressedd again. lets see, what the compression on a stock d17a2? like 9.9. so 4psi compressed air is forced into the chamber, then the piston goes up to TDC and compresses that air/fuel 9.9 times. hmm. no way that would put wear on a hg or anything right?
then as you said, the plug fires and all that compressed stuff has go somewhere right? it has no where to go except to push the piston down. and still if there is too much it stresses the hg.
but like the kid said, he has enough money to get a new motor, let him screw this one up.
yes, the mixture of air/fuel being compressed has something to do with it.
idk your turbo setup. so 15psi on a t28 should be different that your turbo? 15 psi is 15 psi. its not how much psi the turbo can push is. its the volume of air/minute that it can blow.
anyway, 4psi is already compressed air flowing into the chamber. then it gets compressedd again. lets see, what the compression on a stock d17a2? like 9.9. so 4psi compressed air is forced into the chamber, then the piston goes up to TDC and compresses that air/fuel 9.9 times. hmm. no way that would put wear on a hg or anything right?
then as you said, the plug fires and all that compressed stuff has go somewhere right? it has no where to go except to push the piston down. and still if there is too much it stresses the hg.
but like the kid said, he has enough money to get a new motor, let him screw this one up.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,318
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327
Originally Posted by MajinB
hahaha screw it. ill leave it to some one else
im done with this 
im done with this 
i suggest that you follow the link andy left 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,632
Likes: 0
From: Harker heights Tx
Rep Power: 387 For those of you that don't know this is andy's 3rd engine I belive and he got the last one real cheap. Its a test to push the limits of the norm or find out what the true limits are of the stock engine. Stop down talking, talking BS etc and either jump on the bandwagon to learn and see or be quiet. I've seen the car in person , I myself pushed my engine as well just never broke anything luckily.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 51,241
Likes: 20
From: NV
Rep Power: 811 fyi, my head was milled too much thats why the hg blew. compression was at 210psi instead of 135 for about 1.5 years then it gave up. engine was dyno tuned with vafcII.
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 296 15 psi is not 15 psi. If so why doesnt everyone run T25s for better spool up?? And why is it at the same boost level you can make more HP with a bigger turbo?? Reason one is Volume, Reason two is that there is usually less heat in the compressed charge with the bigger turbo. Picture this, you can have water flowing at 15 psi in a 1/2 pipe, and 15 psi in a 1 inch pipe, whats gunna flow more water? the 1" because if its keeping that much pressure in a one inch volume, its just plain gunna flow more water. The same principal applies here. You were half right in saying its about volume, CFM. Cubic feet per minute I believe it is.
Well there is only one TRUE way to find out how much hp the stock d17 will make and we will find out. It doesn't matter if its for 1 day or 2 years to me as long as it can last atleast one run. I guess we will all just have to wait and find out soon. Good Luck Andy I can't wait to see what it produces i bet you will reach 300whp. I am backing you up all the way i have always waited for this day
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by MajinB
hahaha screw it. ill leave it to some one else im done with this
im done with this Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 296
Originally Posted by Michalo187
Well there is only one TRUE way to find out how much hp the stock d17 will make and we will find out. It doesn't matter if its for 1 day or 2 years to me as long as it can last atleast one run. I guess we will all just have to wait and find out soon. Good Luck Andy I can't wait to see what it produces i bet you will reach 300whp. I am backing you up all the way i have always waited for this day
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 For all you haters posting half-assed info.....
And for those arguing about reliability....
Ive been reading the thread often, and people keep bringing up crap that has already been covered or answered in the very first post.
Fact: Reliability is of no importance in this test.
Fact: Andy will kill you if you post random BS in his thread
If this post doesnt apply to you, keep on posting and good job!
If you argue about reliability one more time.... I will castrate you with a soldering iron.
And no.... i am not pointing fingers. So dont yell at me. If you think this thread applies to you, then you obviously know that your posts suck. And therefore you know that you should have never posted them. From those to realizations, you should be able to infer that you should end yourself to benefit the population of this planet.
Originally Posted by andyman97
I'd like to know who thinks what and GOOD REASONS WHY. If you can't be civil about it, don't post, please.
Originally Posted by andyman97
I see alot of people who seem to think that making this much power on a stock motor isn't possible and I plan to prove them wrong
Fact: Reliability is of no importance in this test.
Fact: Andy will kill you if you post random BS in his thread
If this post doesnt apply to you, keep on posting and good job!
If you argue about reliability one more time.... I will castrate you with a soldering iron.
And no.... i am not pointing fingers. So dont yell at me. If you think this thread applies to you, then you obviously know that your posts suck. And therefore you know that you should have never posted them. From those to realizations, you should be able to infer that you should end yourself to benefit the population of this planet.
Last edited by turboengnr; Jan 9, 2006 at 06:55 PM.
Wish I had a Turbo 3)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 737
Likes: 0
From: South Dakota
Rep Power: 0 
im very curious to see what kind of numbers will hold up. good luck getting to 300 man. and im just wondering since you said everything internal is stock what all do you have done. just turbo and head studs? and obviously the aem ems
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 296 Maybe he wont hafta take it apart to see whats inside, or maybe he will turn his internal engine parts into external engine parts. haha. 
Maybe it will end up taking 300 though, thats what makes it worth it.
Maybe it will end up taking 300 though, thats what makes it worth it. 
I cannot believe I posted such a dumb question earlier. I have read andy's post about tuning/detonation months ago, but forgot all about the exact reasoning behind blown head gaskets. College does strange things to your memory, or atleast it can.
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by andyman97
Thank you. I wanted to avoid the non-fact based responses that you've been giving. Again, I think you should really do some research on internal combustion engines before opening your mouth in a discussion about them. It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.....
mmm hmm!
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350 LMAO @ turboengnr and CivicSF.
Anyways, you know, it's been said so many times, it's all about the tune. Look at the link of the d16 making 308 whp in the very first post. It's completely stock with a conservative tune and been running that way for more than "a week" now. If it's possible on a stock d16, why not a stock d17. Yes, I will be putting my headstuds into it. I'm also going to put rod bolts into it, too, just to prevent the possibility of stretching. But the pistons/rods/sleeves are all stock, so yes, turbo and aem is about it.
Anyways, you know, it's been said so many times, it's all about the tune. Look at the link of the d16 making 308 whp in the very first post. It's completely stock with a conservative tune and been running that way for more than "a week" now. If it's possible on a stock d16, why not a stock d17. Yes, I will be putting my headstuds into it. I'm also going to put rod bolts into it, too, just to prevent the possibility of stretching. But the pistons/rods/sleeves are all stock, so yes, turbo and aem is about it.
I haven't taken the time to read through all these threads in this post to see if someone already asked this, but here goes. Exactly how much cylinder pressure is added when using nitrous, say a 50 shot at 900psi bottle pressure? Is it comparable to a turbo setup?
Wanna see a donkey show?
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento California
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by andyman97
Stock means stock. Unchanged block, unchanged head. It's not the boost that damages motors. If you took a piston and put it under 100 psi of air pressure alone, do you honestly think that would damage it? Of course not, that's ridiculous. It's the pressure from the combustion, ie: horsepower/torque. The force itself is what moves things, not the air. With a stock headgasket, it held up fine to 250 whp, it didn't blow anything and ran like a champ. Exactly why would a stock cam cause a motor to "bust?" I have never, not once, heard of someone destroying an engine because they are running stock camshafts. What alot of people don't understand is that heat is what damages an engine. If you keep a conservative tune, with enough timing pulled and monitor your egt's, you keep the heat down, which allows the internals to hold up to the pressure without the added stress of the heat.
And Phil, I know you know this, but that is exactly why your manifold was melting things.
And Phil, I know you know this, but that is exactly why your manifold was melting things.
True but to an extent. When you start out with like 170 lbs of compression and then add more i.e. turbo it creates more friction(heat) and pushes the rings against the cylinder walls more wearing those out way faster. But to those who have ever said it can't be done gave the fuel for others to prove it!
Last edited by cg95660; Jan 11, 2006 at 01:39 PM.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,318
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327 Maybe 170 psi of compression pressure, but how much pressure do you think there is when it ignites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Originally Posted by cg95660
True but to an extent. When you start out with like 170 lbs of compression and then add more i.e. turbo it creates more friction(heat) and pushes the rings against the cylinder walls more wearing those out way faster. But to those who have ever said it can't be done gave the fuel for others to prove it!
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by tfnaaf
Maybe 170 psi of compression pressure, but how much pressure do you think there is when it ignites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andyman
A question for you?
Have you ever blown your engine at all?
Not even once?
So what happen to all your engines?
User error?
How many few engines are you talking about?
And why keep switching the same used stock engines instead of just get one good engine with internals or a complete K20 swap?
It seems redundant to me to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
The reason why forged pistons, rods, sleeeves, block guard are installed so that when you get a boost spike, lock of fuel, etc is so that your engine will take it.
Tuning is a very important part of boosting but is only one of the many factors that are needed to succesfully boost a car that you can drive for a long time with out fatal problems such blowing engines.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
just my .02
A question for you?
Have you ever blown your engine at all?
Not even once?
Originally Posted by andyman97
Ok, I have blown a few engines. Guess what? None of them was due to too much power. In fact, there aren't alot of members that have reached the 250 mark on stock internals. Do you really think the majority of people that blow motors is due to too much power? I guarantee you 97% is due to user error, either lack of tune, boost spike (lack of fuel), no ignition tuning, etc., etc.
I think some people around here need to do some homwork and learn what they're talking about.
Oh, and the AEM EMS is a FULL STANDALONE. It COMPLETELY REPLACES the stock ecu. The only exception is the 1030 which uses the stock ecu ONLY for the coolant temp gauge and a/c switch. Everything else is controlled by the EMS.
I think some people around here need to do some homwork and learn what they're talking about.
Oh, and the AEM EMS is a FULL STANDALONE. It COMPLETELY REPLACES the stock ecu. The only exception is the 1030 which uses the stock ecu ONLY for the coolant temp gauge and a/c switch. Everything else is controlled by the EMS.
So what happen to all your engines?
User error?
How many few engines are you talking about?
And why keep switching the same used stock engines instead of just get one good engine with internals or a complete K20 swap?
It seems redundant to me to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
The reason why forged pistons, rods, sleeeves, block guard are installed so that when you get a boost spike, lock of fuel, etc is so that your engine will take it.
Tuning is a very important part of boosting but is only one of the many factors that are needed to succesfully boost a car that you can drive for a long time with out fatal problems such blowing engines.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
just my .02
Last edited by Supermex; Jan 11, 2006 at 10:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by Supermex
Andyman
A question for you?
Have you ever blown your engine at all?
Not even once?
A question for you?
Have you ever blown your engine at all?
Not even once?
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by Supermex
So what happen to all your engines?
User error?
How many few engines are you talking about?
And why keep switching the same used stock engines instead of just get one good engine with internals or a complete K20 swap?
It seems redundant to me to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
Tuning is a very important part of boosting but is only one of the many factoras to succesfully boost a car that you can drive for a long time with out blowing engines.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
just my .02
User error?
How many few engines are you talking about?
And why keep switching the same used stock engines instead of just get one good engine with internals or a complete K20 swap?
It seems redundant to me to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
Tuning is a very important part of boosting but is only one of the many factoras to succesfully boost a car that you can drive for a long time with out blowing engines.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
just my .02
Ok, stock motor....at the time, I knew nothing about engines....which was about 3-4 years ago. Mike Stafford and Catalyst came out to my house and installed my turbo kit. That night, the headgasket blew, due to the intercooler (which was an air/water cooled) pinched off a coolant line and overheated the engine. I replaced the gasket but didn't torque the head properly because I didn't know how. I had nobody to show me how to do it properly. Shortly thereafter, the engine blew because of lack of oil pressure.
Second engine, never blew. I pulled the turbo off and sold it to Gotti. When I put it back to stock, the hole in the back of the block was stripped from the cheap brass fittings. So I gummed it up with jb weld, I just didn't want to mess with it. I drove the car for probably a year or so, as I started piecing together my next kit. When I was ready to bolt on the kit, I got another engine and dropped it in. That's the motor that is in the car right now. The motor isn't blown. The pistons and rods are fine. If you read my very first post, you'll see what happened to that motor. It would take more money to get this engine running properly with new bearings, main girdle, etc., than the motor I picked up.
Basically, I don't need internals at this point. I want to find the point that I will need internals. Even if I had spent money on pistons and rods, it wouldn't have prevented anything. That's why I am taking my time and not cutting any corners whatsoever with this engine. Everything will be done perfectly and I will see what the stock engine can do.
If you really think that forged pistons and rods can't be damaged, you're wrong. Those parts will hold up to higher cylinder pressures and allow more horsepower but if you run lean, you can still damage a piston, even if it's forged. And if your timing isn't right under high boost pressures, you can still throw a rod. Don't kid yourself into thinking your motor is unbreakable.
Last edited by andyman97; Jan 11, 2006 at 10:31 PM.
DONT PANIC
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 1
From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 285 sorry for blowing up your first motor andy.
I still feel bad about that...
But you have definately come a hell of a long way. Im glad i was there when it all started with the civic.
I still feel bad about that...
But you have definately come a hell of a long way. Im glad i was there when it all started with the civic.
its cool to see that this motor turbo will put down alot...but 4 motors..user error or not...and all the other **** involved...thats alto fo money, could have bought a 30k car stock turbo and had way more fun...plus your out of a car more then you prob drove the car..if anything a swap would have been the best bet...
good luck anyways!
good luck anyways!
Thread Starter
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
From: Rockville, MD
Rep Power: 350
Originally Posted by turboengnr
sorry for blowing up your first motor andy.
I still feel bad about that...
But you have definately come a hell of a long way. Im glad i was there when it all started with the civic.
I still feel bad about that...
But you have definately come a hell of a long way. Im glad i was there when it all started with the civic.
Yeah, I remember we both were learning alot of **** back in those days.
Wanna see a donkey show?
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,019
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento California
Rep Power: 0 It sounds like me with my datsun motor that I have to take out. From a spun bearing. It has been a learnign curve for me as well. No one makes parts for it so its been custom fabed the whole way. But I did have it built I just do not have the means to machine any thing. When I spun the bearing I almost sold it but did not. Now I am glad I didn't. So no matter how much crap you get just stick to what you want to do. Cause you sound like me lol I spent in the area of $1000+ just figuring out what carburater setup would work best.
