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i heard that you have to reuild a fully build engine every 20k miles from some dude because it is build for high end and doesnt last long. is this true? if so, that sucks nut sack

 
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nope that isnt true and i know a few people on honda-tech that have gotten over 20,000
30,000 miles and r still goin. And it also depends on the way u drive it and abuse it.

 
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I think quality internals should last as OEM parts.
So, rebuilt engine and under the boost, should have at least 100K in reserve - this is just logical thinking.

 
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some people just do it to reduce the possibility of something breaking, as if u cared matt, basz rebuilds his every sticking winter, doesnt even get 5k miles on it. but thats just him and he does it himself so..mayebe if u have a high comp high revving engine then maybe that it is true so u dont spin a bearing

 
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dam ur friend must have a lot of money to build his motor after 5000 miles everytime

 
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just costs TIME

 
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Exactly...a properly built and maintained motor should ideally last the length of your car...

 
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Tune, tune, tune. If your car has perfect cam, ignition and fuel timing and is built to handle the power, it should run as though it was a stock engine and last equally long. You just have to have a proper tune to make sure your heat transfer is ideal. Horsepower isn't what usually damages components, it's heat and lack of tune.

 
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Any fully built engine should last as long as the car, as long as the engine is built to be streetable and you take care of it. (meaning maintain it and not blow it up)

 
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How do you mean maintain it and not blow it up? What does a streetable build entail? So, it sounds like what you're saying is that all you have to do is "build the engine streetably" and bolt on a turbo kit? Sorry, not trying to be a **** but that was an extremely vague answer.

 
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When I say "streetable" I mean internals that are not considered full race. For example, using stage 3 cams instead of cams that are only intended for the track. Also using high compression pistons like a 11:1 instead of a compression rating so high that you cant use anything but race gas and other additives to run it safely. When I say maintain it, I mean keep fluids changed. When I say dont blow it up, I mean dont blow it up. Dont over boost (if your engine is built for boost), over-rev, beat on it every day, run too lean etc. Dont do everything that it takes to make it blow up. Take care of the motor and it will last.

 
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Well said /\ /\ /\

as stated, A/F and EGT will also play huge factors in determining the life of your engine...while we all know 12.5 is a great AF number for a turbo vehicle, those members who turn leaner than that in hope of a few more ponies will only find themselves with a mess down the road...my car is tuned to run between 10.5 and 11.2 AF (PLX wideband verified) all day long...and while I could gain more ponies turning it to 12.5 and being safe, I can't see tuning it out any leaner than 12.2!

Pulling timing to avoid detonation will also help cause your engine to end sooner than expected...high EGT's will own joo

 
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if you are only going an 1/8 or a 1/4 of a mile at a time, 5k would be a lot of runs

 
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If you've got the right stuff and someone who knows what they're doing built the motor and tuned it right, you shouldn't have a problem. There's people who run the full Honda Challenge series and don't have to open the motor the whole season.

 
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Why would you want to use a higher compression piston in a boosted setup? It's defeating the purpose of compressing air to fit more into the cylinders. If you raise c/r, you stunt the amount of air and fuel entering the cylinders. Cams are not going to make a huge difference in power or reliability. You may see 5-10 bhp on a Honda engine with cam upgrades and timing. All that will do is help with flow restriction through the valves. Stage 3 cams opposed to track cams? I have no idea what you are talking about there. How is changing fluids going to help your engine run longer? Obviously you should change your oil but that's about it, other than monitoring coolant levels and your oil level. The purpose of the build is to handle the added horsepower that the stock pistons and rods can't withstand. You should be able to beat on a motor that is built and tuned to perform at the hp levels you desire, feather footing it defeats the purpose. Will the engine last longer if you never hit boost than if you would, definitely, because the rings aren't seeing the added pressures from boost levels or transferring the heat. However, if you have a good piston with proper ring separation at the lands and proper piston to wall clearance, the engine should last the life of the car if you tune properly and avoid mistakes, not beating on it.

 
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Not true. You must retard your ignition timing to prevent undue stress on your rods, pistons, crank and the block itself.

(I've covered this in my detonation thread) but think of it this way. If you fire your injectors at the same time on a boosted setup that you would on a stock motor, the mixture will burn too early or explode at the incorrect time. You want to optimize your ignition timing to ignite your mixture when there will be the least amount of resistance from the crankshaft. Imagine that you fire a plug into an a/f mixture when the piston is at top dead center. Not a good thing, because where your rod sits on the journal, you're at a 90 degree angle with the crank.

When the mixture is ignited, it's going to force the rod straight down instead of a few degrees after you reach that point, which will keep the crank rotating faster instead of slowing it down. This is such a big reason that people aren't pulling better times and numbers out of d17's. This is another big reason that so many people blow headgaskets at only 7-10 psi of boost. This shouldn't raise your egt's unless you have another issue such as a poor heat transfer due to more horsepower on the stock piston dish. Your stock rings weren't spaced to transfer the added heat of an additional 100+ horsepower. There's alot of info on this subject, I can't possibly cover all of it.

All I can suggest is reading up on it and doing some research, it will only benefit you in the end and it will help you to cut through some of the inaccurate info that people tend to post after reading a couple of threads in which they're getting inaccurate info in the first place.

 
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My motor runs stock timing and I'm doubling my stock hp in ground hp??? Most sr's run stock timing too, unless with new cams

You make strong points, and I guess I can't compare Nissan motors vs. d series then...

Anyone that I"ve known/met thats pulled timing to avoid detonation (and I don't mean by just a degree or two), runs alot higher EGT's....but again this is in the Nissanworld of boost...???

 
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Now you're just gettin **** about this topic. Did I say boost with a high compression ratio? No. Not everyone likes boost, therefore not everyone is going to build their engine for boost. Cams? Obviously an engine with some serious lobes is not going to run very good on the street nearly stalling out at every traffic light so who would want those for a daily driver anyway? Also those types of heavy duty race cams are not designed to last in the long run. They get worn out! Changing fluids... IMO someone who changes their oil every 1,500 miles is going to have a longer lasting engine compared to someone who waits to hit 3,000+ miles. Thats just common sense. Last but not least, if you beat on an engine every single day of its life, then making the engine last as long as the car definitely isnt at the top of your list of concerns. The point is, if you build an engine that is designed to last through rigorous daily driven torture, keep it tuned right, and you take care of it. It will last. ok?

 
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LMAO at this thread

sure u can rebuild it........if you have the money

Just properly maintain it and make sure it is tuned.

 
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I spoke to someone at a car show with a 10 second civic hatch, and he was rebuilding every couple of thousands miles like you mention.

 
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And I bet he's on the exact verge of detonation at all times....I bet if he tuned a tad more conservative thoughout the power badn that his motor would last...


That or he's not running the proper compresison ratio or gasoline etc...there can be many factors involved with his rebuild...

 
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As far as the cam discussion, that's the beauty of vtec, you don't just have one set of lobes, you have two. As far as this topic goes, I don't think it's necessarry to go any further on it. I've stated this information time and again and anyone who knows something about motors will see what they read for what it is.

As far as 10 second cars go, my close friend pulled a 10 and trapped at 137, with the same pistons and rings for over 20k miles. Before last season rolled around, we pulled his motor to send the block to be sleeved. When we got it back, we re-blueprinted everything and every clearance was perfect. This was at about 15-ish thousand miles, after consistantly running 12's (mid 11's at sea level), driving the car 75 miles each way to and from the track. No rebuild was necessarry.

For those of you who are seriously interested in learning about true information on engine building and performance, there is a very good series of books that were written by Joe Pettit and they are called "The High Performance Honda Builder's Handbook." Very informative book with great information all the way around.

 
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Ace...a nissan motor is nothing like a honda motor...take both apart and look at each part, i dont mean just be like "this is the camshaft, heres the retainers" i mean look at all the intriquit details etc. You'll learn a lot about different motors....its awesome, hence why i changed majors to mechanical engineering