NAstage2

Well, it was bound to happen. This wasn’t one of you tards was it? Anyway...

I was on my way over to my parent's house, cruising down he805S freeway in the fast lane. As I’m moving along at my normal freeway cruising speed of ~80MPH, I come up to and pass a black, lowered EM1 Civic EX. Other then the apparent suspension mods, he had black Rota slip streams, a DC rear lower tie bar, and some sort of uber huge chrome fart cannon that sounded like complete *** (turns out he had a test pipe which didn’t help matters as far as his rice exhaust went).

I didn’t think much of it (I don give much thought to things a lot lower down on the food chain), and I moved over into the 2nd right hand lane in order to exit the freeway. As I do this, I see Mr. Civic EX come flying up behind me with his riceblue headlight bulbs glairing at me. He swoops into my lane behind me and proceeds to ride my ***. Why, I do not know since I had a large van in front of me. We continue like this down to the off ramp. I was hoping it would clear up at the off ramp because it’s an awesome 2 lane 360* corkscrew. I would LOVED to have put some lateral Gs onto my new uber sticky tires and watched Mr. Needs-a-bake check fade away behind me. But no such luck.

We both exit the freeway and it looks like the other dude was chilling a bit. The road we exit onto is a 6 lane (3 each way) highway and I move into the middle lane. Both the lanes next to me were occupied but right before a light, the car next to me pulls into the turn lane leaving a space next to me... and guess who fills it.

Yup, the black EM2.

I can’t see the driver trough he tint, but I can see his indaglow gauges and 3 pillar mounted pod gauges. The driver, I guess, saw me looking over and chucks some very lame sounding revs over at me.

I responded in kind, bringing the RPMS up near the 8K range for a few seconds. With some exhaust snarl and a few exhaust "pops" I figured he should know he’s in for an asskicking.

Then he purges nitrous.

The guy rolls his window down and gives me the "what up" nod.

I look over, let him see me give his car the once over and I ask "K series swap?".

Him: "Naw man. Stock civic EX 1.7l engine, but don’t worry I have you handled"

Me: "You better have more then a 50 shot and some bolt ons"

Him: "Don’t worry about what I have, I eat Si for breakfast, even the new ones which actually have torque! Want to run it, or are you scared?"

Me: "Yea, scared Ill waste my gas. How much of a shot?"

He revs his engine and purges some more.

Alright. Its was on.

By this time the cross street's light was turning yellow, so I didn’t have time to think. I took the revs up to 4K and held it (since I’ve got much better traction now, I’ve taken to changing my launch technique).

The light turns green.

I drop the clutch and get a bit of wheel spin. The tires hook a half second later and BAM! I was off. I must say that was one bad *** launch. You know when you nail a launch, just like you know you hit a home run. You don’t have to see the result, you can just tell.

I wind 1st gear out and slam into 2nd, loosing a bit of traction between shifts with some slight wheel spin. I look back in my side mirror and see the guy's headlights somewhere behind my rear bumper already, bit no time to spend looking behind. 3rd gear is coming.

I shift to 3rd @ about 65MPH. NO loss of traction, but I do feel a nice little surge of power as I let the clutch out and watch the tach climb up towards 9000RPM.

I take another second to look in my rear view.

Now get this, because here is where it gets good....

By 3rd gear I had like a bus length on this poor guy. I mean, literally, a normal sized school bus could have merged in between the two of our cars!

To further make my point, I moved over into his lane and got on the brakes, slowing down back to the 50MPH speed limit. He stays behind me until we come up to another light, when he moves over next to me.

Him: "Nice sleeper, I didn’t know you were squeezing"

Me: "I’m not"

Him: Jackson Racing super charger?

Me: "All motor"

Him: "Bullshit!"

Me: "pull over and see"

We move over onto a cross road and check each other's car out. I popped my hood and he took a look. The funny thing was that he had no clue what he was looking for. "Yea, I don’t see nitrous likes or a turbo" he says. Wow, I can’t believe this motor is making so much power. What’s in it?

I tell him to look at the block stamp and point to it. He just sort of looks at me like

I just shook my head and told him all he needs to know is that its all motor, a stock internaled Honda block and it makes 190WHP. The guy proceeds to tell me how his car is making more then that, so I was lying about something.

I asked what mods he had (I knew it couldn’t be anywhere near close to 190).

It turns out the guy has suspension mods, AEM V2 CAI, DC header, AEM cat back exhaust, "custom" test pipe, Unorthodox Racing UDP/AC pulley/PS pulley, ACT clutch/flywheel, MSD ignition/plug wires, VAFC, HKS "grounding" wires (lol snake oil), and a 55 shot ZEX wet nitrous kit (I didn’t know ZEX made wet kits now?) with a bottle heater, purge, bottle blankey and so on. It turns out his pillar gauges were for nitrous pressure, fuel pressure, and the 3rd was one of those COMPLETLY useless "scanning LED" A/f gauges (wideband people, its the only useful way to measure AF ratios).

He goes on to tell me that he started out with 127HP. With the 55 shot he’s got 187HP...

....and adding up the rest of his mods, he "should be somewhere near 230HP!"

I started to laugh, but then he says "Oh don’t worry, I know its lower then that."

"Oh good" I think to my self...

And then he finishes with "...that’s at the engine. If you put this on the dyno Id be more at like 215HP at the wheels."

He goes on to say "Yea, I know most turbo cars are making like 300HP, so this is pretty good. I mean I’m almost at that power level with a 500 dollar nitrous kit!. I can’t wait to run some poor V8 domestic!"

Yea, it turns out this guy is t3h uber-ricer extraordinaire. He actually added up all the manufacturer's "claimed HP gains for all this aftermarket products and believes that’s what his car is putting down. To make matters worse, he just got his nitrous kit and was squeezing on everything that rolls. He went on to tell me that He’s had the kit for a little over 2 weeks and was already on his 4th 10lb bottle.

Just to compare, I would go through 1 10lb bottle of nitrous once a MONTH at the most, when I was juicing the B16 mill.

Anyway, we wrap it up and I get ready to leave. Even then he was still asking me what my "secret" mods were, and that there is no way my car could have beaten him all motor.

All I could do was bit my lip to keep from laughing at him at this point. I told him matter of factly that he would (hopefully) understand when he grew up a bit and learned more about car. I told him his car is probably running high 14s on a good day and he should be happy to be making 160WHP. Not 215, not 200, not even 190.

He wasn’t happy to hear that, but I could care less. Its not my job to educate fresh out of high school know nothing ricer tards.... just to own them and make them feel inferior.


CLIFFS NOTES: 2004 Civic EX 5spd + I/H/E + pulleys + VAFC + 55 shot of nitrous = STILL SLOW

aznboysrfr

iTrader: (10)

at least he didn't say that he wasn't squeezing on that run.

hmm ... do you ever have any problems with dragnet?

ZapThyCat

iTrader: (19)

You gotta give the car a little credit, if he's noob enough to think that he's making 215 whp, you know that he's too inexperienced to race well, let alone race with juice.

And yes, Zex has had a wet kit for quite a while now....

amhtown01

iTrader: (11)

what a douche.

Hwoody77

iTrader: (13)

Hey NA how much torque do you think he was running?

blouisgod

iTrader: (14)

the D is worthless without boost.

good kill

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

just cuz it's slower than you doesn't mean it's slow. lol joe you turd.


this was awesome:
"HKS "grounding" wires (lol snake oil)"

haha, you mentioned snake oil. that's hilarious. but you are SO right. "grounding wires" are definitely the snake oil for today's ricers who actually think they do something.

truehonda

iTrader: (97)

Ground wires give the distributor, starter and most electrical features in your car an easier time due to less resistance. Honda is not that smart about correct grounds. Thta is the ONLY use for them and nothing else.

As for your win. You have a swapped car that you raced on the streets. Not bad for a fun run IMO. Have you raced at any tracks? Not 1320 either.

joshb_

iTrader: (15)

Hmmmm...If he had a 75 shot i think it would be decently close...cause thats up there near 185 whp like me

joshb_

iTrader: (15)

good kill btw

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

Honda, and in fact, pretty much all manufacturer's modern cars have more than adequate grounding from the factory. The only thing a grounding kit adds is weight.

The only way a ground kit would benefit your car in any way would be is if you had a much older car that came with an inadequate grounding system, or your car is old enough that the wiring has degraded.

NAstage2

Ive dynoed/tuned many a car with nitrous. Im sorry to inform you that 99% of the time, the rated "shot" wasnt the same as the WHP gained. Its always lower.

NAstage2

probably ~150ft lbs.... about the same as me. Of coure my gearing destroys his, so thats not very important in this case.


That would have been hard to believe given that he was blowing purge all over the place.

And no, Ive never gotten a ticket for anything other then speeding (99% of the time its for doing 80 on the freeway). Even still, I havent gotten ANY tickets in the last 3 years

Civic_RedLine

iTrader: (18)

i had 80 shot edelbrock, i/h/e, testpipe, pullies, ground wires and i know it was more than 160 horses to the wheels, i took a h22 swap that had i/h/e

yeah 80 means 80 to the crank and not the wheels. I think the guy didnt know how to spray, also was his car n auto? if it was auto u should take him no matter what with thos emods

Civic_RedLine

iTrader: (18)

my bottle usually lasted 1-2 weeks max, then i would have to fill up.i went through 5-10 fill-ups and i had fun with it.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

you beat an h22 swapped into what? i hope it wasn't something like an eg hatchback. that swap alone with i/h/e is good for low 14's at least.

nastage2's car is probably a 13 second car, if other similarly modded cars are any indication. so he shouldn't have any problem with the guy he raced.

joshb_

iTrader: (15)

Im aware...thats why i didnt say i was making 190 whp......I making close to 180 if im trapping 97 mph. Im not trying to start anything I gave you credit on the kill.

scansel912

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, a 2001 civic with a NX 50 shot and bolt ons made like 110 hp before juice and like 105 or something ft/lbs a long time ago. Then made 171 hp and 200 ft/lbs to the wheels on a NX 50 shot. So 75 shot should make at least 180 if you have bolt ons

NAstage2

not, there is no magic equation, so you cant say that.

scansel912

iTrader: (4)

Are you replying to me or joshb_ ?

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

he's saying that what one car gets is not what the other car will get. nitrous is tricky, in the sense that it varies with each car.... even one that is the same make, model, and year.


however, what i'm curious about is how a car with less than 100lb/ft of torque to the wheels got 200lb/ft with just a 50 shot.... ???

NAstage2

seriously

truehonda

iTrader: (97)

Check the grounds in your car. They can be improved. They are not bad, but can be improved. Get a resistance tester and try a grounding kit. You will see a difference. And yes, they do add weight.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

while they can be "improved" the improving does no good. it's kinda like waxing a floor that just got waxed. this mod has been debunked by people far more knowledgeable on the subject than any of us.

You do realize that our wiring for grounding in our cars comes from the same or similar factories as these "improved" aftermarket kits, right?

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92377

and this thread has 5 more links in it regarding this subject.
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=251027

These people are electrical engineers, including one that works for honda america. They know way more than any of us would about the subject. And what does each and every one of them say? Grounding kits on a modern car are useless.

here's another thought. a grouding kit's only use would be to fix a current "problem" with your wiring. however, you do realize this means that all it would do is restore your car's grounding capabilities to stock? in other words, you aren't adding performance, you're fixing it.

NAstage2

On that topic Popular Mechanics did extensive testing on stuff like this. They put to rest the myth of the automotive aftermarket. They proved that grounding kits do NOTHING as far as adding power or increasing MPG. Same for that Tornado thing that sits in your intake, magnets that line your fuel lines, kits that pressurize the fuel a 2nd time and run it through "special" copper tubing, as well as a bunch of other stuff.

You are experiencing the placebo effect of having bought this grounding BS. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

scansel912

iTrader: (4)

There was a member a long time ago who had his car in Honda Tuning magazine who did a Nitrous Express installation for our cars. I can't remember his name either. Anyways, they did make 60 hp over baseline and made 200 ft/lbs to the wheels with just the 50 shot jetting. I know that conditions had to be optimal with the nitrous system (bottle pressure, amount of nitrous in the tank etc) so I'm not saying everyone with a 50 shot is making 60 hp to the wheels because all cars are different. But I would like to think though that my car at least in the 170-185 whp range with a 75 shot of nitrous.

I will try to find that article if you would like me to in case you think I;m pulling stuff out of my *** haha.

NAstage2

I was on the bottle for close to 2 years. In which time, I learned a LOT about nitrous.

I also had the chance to see quite a few nitrous equipped cars on the dyno, including my own. From what I have seen and from talking to tuners with yeas of experience, I can tell you it’s rare for a nitrous system to make the advertised 1WHP per "shot".

There are a myriad of conditions that must be correct in order for that to happen, including bottle pressure, the amount of nitrous vs. air in the tank, the temperature of the gas, the length of the nitrous line, the in line filters, the ambient altitude and temperature, and so on.

It is a misconception that you will be getting exactly what you are jetting, which is understandable because most manufacturers rate their "jets" as WHP... except for ZEX which rates @ BHP for some reason. Its not false advertising, but they aren’t going out of their way to tell you that it must be under exacting conditions in order to produce the advertised power gains.

It’s also true that nitrous makes more torque then Hp. But not THAT much more. With a 50 shot, you should see 55-60 ft lbs of torque, with a 75 shot, you can expect to see ~83 ft lbs and so on... under perfect conditions of course.

There is no way in hell, however, that a 50 shot is going to get you anything remotely close to 100 ft lbs of torque at the wheels.

ajhdragon

iTrader: (5)

damn 4 bottles in 2 weeks i went through 1 10lb bottle in 2 months. but then again i didn't go out trying to race every camaro, trans am, and mustang i saw. Kid is an uber ricer not knowing he lack of what he has. even after i get my new interanals and EMS im not planning on anything more that 250hp, with my setup.

scansel912

iTrader: (4)

Here it is NAstage2. Right there in black and white.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0203ht_nx/#

NAstage2

First of all, torque is multiplied out many times over through the transmission; this is why low torque cars like mine can keep up with high torque cars like a Mustang GT.

They never said what gear they ran that test on. Usually dynos are done in 4th gear because for most cars that’s as close to a 1:1 ratio as you can get. However, if you dyno in say.... 2nd or 3rd the tq numbers you see will be considerably higher. Hp will be rates a bit higher too, but won’t affect the Hp nearly as much as the Tq.

Another thing is that they were over pressurizing the bottle. Most nitrous companies recommend running their systems at 800PSI. It’s a very old trick to bump the bottle pressure up in order to get more power at the track or dyno. In fact, this is one of the major reasons why people blow engine running nitrous. When you have TOO much pressure in the bottle you start getting problems. But you do have some room to play with, as they did.

So you have a magazine, whose sponsors include NX (whose product they happen to be testing) that ran one dyno test, admittedly running an over pressurized nitrous bottle and that does NOT give details as to gearing as well as other factors that can be manipulated to modify dyno figures.

This is the reason why you can never believe the "dyno proven" figures claimed by aftermarket parts manufacturers.