01' civic vs. 02' focus
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 401 
Originally Posted by senseiturtle
http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html
HP determines accleration, plain and simple.
It should be - HP wins races, but Torque will pull your *** out of a ditch.
However, if two cars have the same stats across the board, with one having more torque... that could be the deciding factor.
It's very hard to say exactly WHAT role torque plays, but it's better to have it than not. Certainly makes for a more "fun-to-drive" car.
HP determines accleration, plain and simple.
It should be - HP wins races, but Torque will pull your *** out of a ditch.
However, if two cars have the same stats across the board, with one having more torque... that could be the deciding factor.
It's very hard to say exactly WHAT role torque plays, but it's better to have it than not. Certainly makes for a more "fun-to-drive" car.
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Noror
Rep Power: 0 my points are as follows:
The author of this topic (lives in CA) said it was a 2002 focus 2.3l (and being in California one of the 4 states that the 2.3l was standard equipment on all focus' in 2002) that I simply do not believe that he beat him.
I've driven, dyno'd, and raced in too many 2.3l's to believe it. I've driven and raced friends in their 7thgen's and just don't believe it.
Then in a PM he (the author) says he "Just found out" that the guy lied to him about having the bigger engine, and actually has a 2.0l Now, I'm not sure about you guys, but that seems a little weird...
If he would have said a 2.0l from the start I would have believed him. He could have said a 2005 2.0l and I would have believed him. But not the 2.3l Duratec.
The author of this topic (lives in CA) said it was a 2002 focus 2.3l (and being in California one of the 4 states that the 2.3l was standard equipment on all focus' in 2002) that I simply do not believe that he beat him.
I've driven, dyno'd, and raced in too many 2.3l's to believe it. I've driven and raced friends in their 7thgen's and just don't believe it.
Then in a PM he (the author) says he "Just found out" that the guy lied to him about having the bigger engine, and actually has a 2.0l Now, I'm not sure about you guys, but that seems a little weird...
If he would have said a 2.0l from the start I would have believed him. He could have said a 2005 2.0l and I would have believed him. But not the 2.3l Duratec.
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From: Duluth, MN
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Originally Posted by S2000man01
torque means nothing by itself. you can look at torque numbers all day and never get it right. ooooo, the focus makes 145lb/ft crank torque. what, you want a cookie from the torque fairy?
ok, then explain to me why the 153 lb/ft S2000 is faster than the 302 lb/ft mustang GT?
/soundofcrickets
anyways, enough sarcasm. i dont mean to be harsh but seriously. you have to look at gearing, weight, power band, and the fact that it's an AUTO vs a manual. that alone makes a huge difference.
his story is not only believeable, but he SHOULD beat an auto focus with his stick shift civic.
ok, then explain to me why the 153 lb/ft S2000 is faster than the 302 lb/ft mustang GT?
/soundofcrickets
anyways, enough sarcasm. i dont mean to be harsh but seriously. you have to look at gearing, weight, power band, and the fact that it's an AUTO vs a manual. that alone makes a huge difference.
his story is not only believeable, but he SHOULD beat an auto focus with his stick shift civic.
This is only a driver's race on the part of the civic owner because the zx3 is an auto. If you had told me he had beat a manual zx3 then yes, there is driver error. People racing automatics are one thing for sure.. consistant. You put the pedal down and see if you're faster. Sure there's reaction time but that's about it.
Like what ilselu1 said, the 2.3L is much more powerful stock than the 2.0L Zetec engine he "just found out" he has. It's also much more believable.
It's funny because of all of the Honda leg humpers here. I drive a Focus, but in no means will you hear me debate plenty of things about Ford. My car is severely modified beyond stock and I'm very aware of the capabilities of a Focus, along with several other cars. A car is a car, I didn't say "Honduhz are slow" or anything like that, I simply stated facts as to why I claim bullshit. To those that are actually debating in a sensible fashion, thanks for using your brain.
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 401 ok, so let me get this straight.
you're telling me that the auto 2.3 liter focus runs the same time as the manual? the manual 2.3 liter focus runs what.... 16.0?
if the manual focus runs 16.0, then the auto is going to run probably a good half second slower if not worse. ford's auto trannies suck. look at the mustang GT for example. 13.7 with a manual, and 14.5 with the auto. that's almost a FULL SECOND difference.
5 speed civic > 2.3l auto focus.
lol no they aren't close. the final drive ratio alone is 3.82 on the focus and 4.11 on the civic. that's a substantial difference. and a 200lb difference is a decent difference too.
you focus boys keep talking about more hp and torque, yet ignore the gearing, power band, weight difference, and the manual vs auto details.
i can't believe people are actually trying to argue the auto focus is faster than the 5spd vic....
you're telling me that the auto 2.3 liter focus runs the same time as the manual? the manual 2.3 liter focus runs what.... 16.0?
if the manual focus runs 16.0, then the auto is going to run probably a good half second slower if not worse. ford's auto trannies suck. look at the mustang GT for example. 13.7 with a manual, and 14.5 with the auto. that's almost a FULL SECOND difference.
5 speed civic > 2.3l auto focus.
Originally Posted by trahma
I already referred to the weight, and the gearing of the cars is fairly close.
you focus boys keep talking about more hp and torque, yet ignore the gearing, power band, weight difference, and the manual vs auto details.
i can't believe people are actually trying to argue the auto focus is faster than the 5spd vic....
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 707
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From: San Antonio, Texas, US
Rep Power: 0 Cobras aren't that great. They're cool if you want a blower on your motor, but I'll take an all motor V8 with pushrods running the exact same times.
Something nice about knowing your all N/A.
Something nice about knowing your all N/A.
Originally Posted by Mustang5.0HO
gotta love torque... 
Take it from me...Torque = teh win... and thats true S2000 are fast no doubt...to bad I proved my friend smoked a S2000 from a roll and from a light... 
Ohh it was a z28 too... well now that makes good sence in a GT making 302 torque but why dint you put a Cobra there instead?? To much power?? Not trying to be an *** either but just triying to make things even..... And yeah he did beat that Focus...Kinda makes sence since it's stock, not even a CAI.... 4 door auto and has original tires and rims..Dont expect much from a car like that.... some of you guys are getting too carried away with numbers and stuff..maybe you like math?? But it all really start and end's with the drivers... You can have all the power in the world but If you cant get it to the floor theres no point in having it..just my thought 
Take it from me...Torque = teh win... and thats true S2000 are fast no doubt...to bad I proved my friend smoked a S2000 from a roll and from a light... Ohh it was a z28 too... well now that makes good sence in a GT making 302 torque but why dint you put a Cobra there instead?? To much power?? Not trying to be an *** either but just triying to make things even..... And yeah he did beat that Focus...Kinda makes sence since it's stock, not even a CAI.... 4 door auto and has original tires and rims..Dont expect much from a car like that.... some of you guys are getting too carried away with numbers and stuff..maybe you like math?? But it all really start and end's with the drivers... You can have all the power in the world but If you cant get it to the floor theres no point in having it..just my thought Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 707
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From: San Antonio, Texas, US
Rep Power: 0 Also if anyone seriously thinks that a 5spd Civic could lose to an automatic focus you need to have your head examined.
Automatic transmissions are designed for fuel economy on small cars, which is why you don't see people racing them. They are dirt slow.
- Diemos
Automatic transmissions are designed for fuel economy on small cars, which is why you don't see people racing them. They are dirt slow.
- Diemos
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 10,031
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From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 401 how someone thinks a high 16 second focus can beat a low 16 second civic because the focus "has more hp/torque" is beyond me. torque/hp are just numbers. the timeslip doesn't lie.
with that.
with that.
Last edited by S2000man01; Mar 6, 2005 at 05:25 PM.
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