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long story short... I saw a 328 BmW messing with a red MR2 on the frwy. So I dropped to 4th and rode the bmw til we were out traffic. I think the mr2 saw me roll up on the bmw cause when traffic broke I heard his BOV go off as he dropped gears and took off then waited for us to clear. we took up 3 lanes at 80 I wa still in 4th. th bmw went frist then we went. I beat the bmw by like 3 cars by 135 and I had about 1 car on the mr2 turbo and we shut it down. little_red was in the car with me. it was fun. I think the Bmw was auto and the MR2 was a shock. I thought hed kill me once I heard the bov. I just wanted help humiliate the bmw. cause he would killed a regular mr2.

BTW for anyone who doesnt know much about celica GT-S I can hit 115mph before I shift to 5th gear and 145 before I shift to 6th!!! Also I like 80 cause Im almost in peak power for 4th gear!!

 
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damn man, 145 before 6th. That's a sick car. I don't even think our vics can hit 145....
Nice kill

 
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Bs i gotta clip of a mr2 turbo blowing out a ITR

 
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:zbsflag:

lol you beating a bimmer top end. that's a good one. even if it was a 3 series, either the driver was hemorraging behind the wheel or there was something wrong with his car. that 130 ft-lb beast of yours isnt beating a bimmer. the mr2 was having boosting problems if he lost to you.

btw you can stop lying about your top speed too.

chameleon from newcelica.org
"A stock GTS 6 speed is supposed to be going 137 at redline in 5th gear with no extra power to accelerate into 6th"

 
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i can hit 115 in 4th and i got a 5 speed

 
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you guys should do some research before calling BS. Its a well know fact that torque is irrevelent for top end. Basic rule of thumb is torque = low speed accerlation, horsepower = top end pull.


2000 BMW 328i
--------------------
193 HP
206 ft-lbs
3,197 lbs

2000 Toyota Celica GTS
------------------------------
180 HP
133 ft-lbs
2,500 lbs

Turbo MR2
--------------
200 HP
200 ft-lbs
2,885 lbs

Looking at the numbers its not hard to believe he pulled both of them.

 
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the whole concept of torque for low end hp for high end isnt really that correct.

max torque x rpm / 5652 give hp, so hp #s that are higher than torque means peak torque late in powerband.

thus im sticking by my statement that this gts guy is full of crap.

 
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7thGenCIVIC.com not 7thGenCELICA.com...

 
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ya know, its an open forum...just that this gts guy is a bad bs'er on it.

 
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lets see a vid of u doing 145 in 5th..then i'l;l believe you

 
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yea the celica dude is all BS! unless that 1.8 engine of his is blowing and spraying i call this claim of his bs. 3 car lenghts on the bmw and one car length on the mr2-T?????hmmm maybe they werent racing

 
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Sounds to me like a newbie passing someone on the highway and saying "Yeah, I totally killed that guy!"

 
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btw.. bmws are made for high end speeds ;example the autobahn... uhm they top out at 155... well are supposed to ... just had to add that

 
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More importantly that who is full of it or not is these guys endangering lives by driving that fast on the freeway. And don't bother trying to justify it or tell me I'm wrong. People can merge onto the freeway, tires can blow, plenty of things can happen. They wrongly would call it an accident when in fact it's a stupid fool who doesn't deserve to have the car he's improperly driving in the wrong venue.

 
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Instead of posting mathmatical formulas, why don't you argue your point.

Answer this, why does a 235 hp 460 ft-lb Dodge Ram have NO top end pull, where as a 500 hp 370 ft-lb Toyota Supra does? HORSEPOWER, while some will point out that a truck is heavier

As the RPM increases torque usually decreases, where as horsepower increases so at 7000 RPM a car is depending on horsepower to propel it rather than torque. but while doing a burnout a car is depending on torque to light up the tires rather than horsepower.

Apply a given amount of torque to a stationary object has a great affect, but when the same amount of torque is applied to an object in motion the affect has decreased. Because the rotational energy of object (say a wheel) is already creating a set amount of torque so on outside force (an engine) has litle affect when at speed.

Example: a stationary tires carries no rotional energy thus is generating no torque, so any amount of torque applied to it will be an increase. A tires moving at 10 mph is carrying some rotational energy so its generating some torque but no as much as the engine can so the engine can stil propel the tire simply on torque. A tire moving at 100 mph carries a large amount of rotational energy and is most likely generating more torque than the engine, so the engine can't propel the tire using torque.

 
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the mr2 would not only of beat you it would of pulled very hard im pretty sure they both didnt know you were racing

 
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wow a whole page of text when you miss the ENTIRE point of horsepower. horsepower is derived from torque the formula for horsepower: horsepower = (torque x rpm) / 5252

the later on in the powerband the peak torque occurs, the higher the horsepower number.
torque and hp graphs tend to have a parabolic (or inverse) shape to them.

like with the truck that puts out 235hp and 460 ftlbs, that means that the motor puts out its max torque at 2683 rpm. that is horrible for racing, cause most racing is over 3k rpm (at least 3k on v8 motors). after its peak torque point at 2.7k rpm, torque probably drops and is non existant (relatively) at higher rpms where racing occurs. a supra with 500 hp and 370 ftlbs tells me that its peak torque point is at 7.1k rpm. thats at the high end of the racing band for road cars (usually, s2k not considered). the torque graph rises up to its high point, then drops off. however while racing, rpms are held at the hump of the graph, and the motor is usually always close to peak torque.

do yourself a favor, and dont go around talking like horsepower and torque are two different things entirely. without torque, horsepower does not exist.

*huff*

now to relate it to the celica
its rated at 180 hp and 130 ftlbs of torque. that means that high in the powerband, its only dropping a maximum of 130 lbs of torque. 130 lbs, even at a high rpm, is not enough to catch the bimmer or the mr2.

 
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also, just wanted to point something out. with a mathematical formula, there is virtually no point in arguing. unless you have some way of disproving the fomula (which would probably net you a nobel), you have no argument.

 
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Its true that horsepower and torque are functions of one another, the formula you provided simply shows how to calculate horsepower, but fails to show how those numbers have any revelance to real world performance.

Anyone can see a formula on a website and paste it on a forum, but to truly understand the formula and its meaning is another thing.

The formula you provided has little to do with this argument, i'lltry to find a link to a decent website so maybe you could better understand the real world performance aspects for horsepower and torque.

 
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i dont understand how this formula relates to the real world??!? lol

i just gave you how it relates to the celica at the bottom of my last post. please read it.

horsepower is just an arbitary # that tells to the car enthusiast the peak torque point. torque exists without horsepower, but horsepower cannot exist without torque. here ill throw in a little history on how horsepower was created:

"The story goes that Watt was working with ponies lifting coal at a coal mine, and he wanted a way to talk about the power available from one of these animals. He found that, on average, a mine pony could do 22,000 foot-pounds (<--torque) of work in a minute. He then increased that number by 50 percent and pegged the measurement of horsepower at 33,000 foot-pounds of work in one minute. It is that arbitrary unit of measure that has made its way down through the centuries and now appears on your car, your lawn mower, your chain saw and even in some cases your vacuum cleaner!"

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower1.htm

 
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im sorry your computer seems to be spewing alot of stupid comments but really i'll try to keep this argument civil.

Sure seems like it

EXAMPLE: 2000 Integra GSR vs 2000 Civic Si, well since horsepower = (torque x rpm) / 5252, the integra will certainly win.

As you can see throwing out formulas doesn't always make sense.

Oh i read it fell over laughing but i read it , since you think thats top end pull can be related to torque I think i'll still debate this with you.

My friends turbo diesel truck makes 250 horsepower, so you can now tell me its peak torque and at what RPM it makes it at? Didn't think so.

Answer this, take my friends '67 Mustang, once he put side pipes with race mufflers on it, he gained horsepower but lost torque.

Heres a good article for you CLICK ME!!!

 
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ready who cares??? he does not drive a civic

 
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torque is a factor in such a race (as it is a factor in any race) but when considering two nearly identical cars, you have to look at factors such as gearing, driver, etc.

it makes perfect sense. that formula applies to every motor vehicle, and you still havent proven otherwise


there you go talking like horsepower has nothing to do with torque. even with the evidence i have provided you act stubborn. hit up websters and look up arbitrary.


well lets see, if you looked at the equation, there is a total of 3 variable. you have only given me 1. but...upon looking at the type of car (turbo diesel) i would assume that the peak torque is low in the rpm band.

gained horsepower but lost torque means that the power graph shifted. his peak torque has moved to a higher rpm, albiet a slightly lower torque rating.

right here, in your own link, you can see what i am talking about:
"Torque is the only thing that a driver feels, and horsepower is just sort of an esoteric measurement in that context. 300 foot pounds of torque will accelerate you just as hard at 2000 rpm as it would if you were making that torque at 4000 rpm in the same gear, yet, per the formula, the horsepower would be *double* at 4000 rpm. Therefore, horsepower isn't particularly meaningful from a driver's perspective, and the two numbers only get friendly at 5252 rpm, where horsepower and torque always come out the same. "

lets relate this to the celica shall we? peak torque occurs at 7.2k rpm. even with that advantage in racing a high rev motor, the car STILL only puts out 130 ftlbs of torque. not enough to kill those other two cars.

 
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First off the BMW was an easy kill, I have a b20 Integra and spanked the crap outta one right off the line, and he never caught up was about 2 cars behind me the whole time. Dont mistaken the 325 as a M3 people, 325s are really heavy, now as far as that mr2 turbo, Im not saying nething, those things are really quick, I ran one with my GSX eclipse and I could barely keep up, those things have great low end. As far as high end I'm not sure, but I also wouldn't put money on it either. B.c. like someone said earlier prob had a boost problem, or most likely he was limited on boost and pressure off his BOV and Turbo itself. I was only able to push 14lbs outta my GSX stock b.f. I had to upgrade my Exhaust system. Yeah 12 is stock, so 14 was really low boost to jump too. Most people are able to boost about 16-20 stock sometimes but all in all they are crazy and those are the people who do it for track not daily driven. And if they do boost 20 stock daily driven, well those are the cars we see selling on ebay etc lol. But yeah GTS vs mr2-T is not a fair race at all. One car runs high 14's low 15's and the mr2 stock runs low 14's all day long, if the driver knows how to launch, but as far as freeway once again, I dont know.

 
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Holy crap I disappear for a few days and this is what I come back to??

 
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OK first off I'm not that much of a noob here. Second NO I dnt have a civic my girlfriend (little_red) does. Since I do all the work on it it helps to talk with other people who have them.

As far as all your BS when on any other post have I said any BS??? Imphort racer has been in my car he knows I can hit 115mph by the end of 4th in less then 1/2 mile not to mention little_red was witness.
now for all I know the BMW might have been auto??? I never said anything about it. And trying to guess what kinda boost the mr2 had??? how the hell should I know seriously. I've posted on here many times with diff stories win and lose. I didnt see anyone flamin when I lost to a turbo vic off the line. Why do you think its days between my posts I only come on here to stay updated and maybe post a story or 2.
As far as your stupid formulas I was too bored to sit through that crap. Besides the fact that you are taking the power at the crank published from the factory. No I havent weighed my car BUT it's supposed to be 2500lbs no I have stripped 225lbs of stuff out including the spare and seats and etc... my car puts 167hp to the wheels. As far as checkin my top speeds you posted a sorry quote from a thread that was fuul of controversy from another guy using "formulas" to determine top speed.
Now if you knew as much about the tranny of a celica as you think you do 5th gear is the last workable gear, 6th is more for an overdrive affect. It is way to tall of a gear to race in, thats why you can hit such high speeds still in 5th. In 6th after a hella long ways I got my speedo to say 155 which at those speeds speedos are usually off so your talkin maybe 140 actual speed. but was I talkin about calibrations NO so quit tryin to use a formula that requires a perfect world to work.

Now I know a few people on this board know their $hit and have very nice cars. even people like usafstud who works it on autox I got nothing but respect for them but all you people who just felt like callin BS cause of what you "think" fast is can really just **** off I dont care. Everyone who knows me knows Im usually a cool guy I dont have to lie to you people for acceptance cause I dont care.

To further my point stock celica GTS is rated at 15.5 1/4 well full interior I was hitting 15.2- 15.3 all day. with the weight reduction in sitting mid 14's stock motor/exhaust and rims. I see other gt-s's of the same setup running low 16's why they cant drive. now you can flame all you want I've said my piece and As far as Im concerned this thread is DEAD!!!!

 
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Anyone who knows me knows this isnt directed at them to the rest of you on this thread payattention dont try this again!

 
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it was cool reading them argue.. heheh they're breakdance fighting....

 
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LMAO

Thats funny!!!!

 
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Oh im not done

Back to the arguing

Go talk to ANYBODY that races at the salt flats and ask them what keeps them pulling at high speeds all of them will tell you horsepower. I fail to realize why you are trying to argue something that has been proven many times.

Again in my own article:

"Looking at top speed, horsepower wins again, in the sense that making more torque at high rpm means you can use a stiffer gear for any given car speed, and thus have more effective torque *at the drive wheels"

Im not here to disprove a formula that has been around for a long time. Im trying to get you to realize that the formula horsepower = torque * RPM/5252 does not tell you what matters more for top end accerlation.

Torque incooparates 2 units, those being distance and weight ie foot pounds, making torque simply means you a generating a force

Horsepower has 3 units, distance, weight and most importantly time. So making horsepower only means your making a force over a period of time

Thus horsepower is just a more specific measurement thats BASED on torque. As of now dynometers metasure torque and convert it to horsepower