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im gonna have to agree....everyone is convinced thee 99-00 si is much faster then thee 02+....and although this varies from car to car and driver to driver...overall.....i believe the new si mod for mod would win hands down......

we just recently got rid our 02....but that car was quick and was beginning to take very well to the mods...only after it was completely broken in, however.....my fiancee had a 99 si .....and even agrees that our new hatch was faster than his old coupe.....give people time...they will see its potential

and back on topic...good race.... my 03 ex with a few bolt ons actually beat a 99-00 si thee other day on thee road ....only goes to show that thee driver makes all thee difference in thee world.....

 
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i wanna see a hott chik ina ex ill give 7th gen some props then j/p

 
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Of all the forums I've ever been on, the lowest time for a STOCK ep hatch Si I've seen is around 15.7.

I've seen people in the 6th gen Si run 15.5 stock. I ran a 15.6 in mine.

So to say that the ep hatch Si is faster in stock form would be incorrect in my opinion.

 
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The only thing that will solve this would be looking into it at Motortrend.com and seeing what the experts ran. If I remember correctly, the 99-00 Si went from 0-60 in 7.7 seconds, and the 1/4 in 15.7. The New Si went from 0-60 in 7.9 and 1/4 in a 15.8. so a 1/10th of a second, big deal. Not worth debating in my opinion LOL

 
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alright this will only be my 2nd time doing this but once i do all of you 99-00 Si people stfu im goin to 1320 w/a friend of mine stock vs stock Si mine 02 his 00 he already knows i blow him out evry time once you people see this vid maybe you can face the facts why would any car dealer make a faster same model car in older years and make the new ones slower?? it doesnt make sense

 
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Well for the same reason they made the new Si slower and handle worse than it's competition. Why? who knows. And they are not same model. They are totally different. One is a coupe, the other a hatchback. And believe it or not, the hatchback is HEAVIER than the 6th gen coupe.

And I don't care what the hell you and your friend do. You can't base your numbers off of two people. I'm merely stating that from ALL the forums I've visited ever (and that's a LOT cuz I troll everywhere) I've never seen a stock ep hatch hit better than 15.7. Yet even I myself ran 15.6 in my stock 6th gen Si. And I've seen 15.5 and 15.6 from some of the better drivers out there in stock 6th gen Si. I've actually even now seen a slip for a 15.3 on a stock 2000 Si since looking for them on the net. I believe that was a guy in new york from clubrsx.

So you and your friend can do whatever you want, but you and your friend don't represent the BEST of the driving community. If you want to compare cars, you compare them at their BEST performance, to see which is really faster.

So for argument's sake, they sound like they are about even, however there does seem to be a top end advantage to the 6th gen Si.

 
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s2000 that whole statement madeno sense at all no company is going to make its sportiest typeof civic corrola camry ect... slower then previous gen the i vtec systemkicks in much sooner then the 99-00 so our powerband is along quite a bit ahead of theres so by the time they kick theres in we asre already topping out ares this is how it goes top end wise from experience LOTS of experince with 99-00 Si's



1st>Ep pulls 1 1/2 cars maybe 2on the launch
2nd ep pulls maybe another 1/2 length
3rd >this is where the 99-00 longer gears kick in it makes up alot of ground but the ep still has a bumper on it and when they both hit fourth its even all the way to 110 its no use topping out 5 th gear

the older Si's are not slow but they cannot compare to the new hatchs on launch capabilities

 
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The best 1/4 mile I've seen on the 02 SI is 15.6 One of the guys on ephatch.com ran that.

 
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My God, you are still b*tching about how fast the new SIs are? Stock for stock 02-03 SI are faster off the line, but the 99-00 SI will catch up my 3rd gear and pull alittle on the 02-03 SI. Now mod for mod, the new 2.0L takes to mods better. But it doesn't matter which is faster, because they are civics. Get over it. Let it die.

 
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Yes, the new Si is better at the launch because instead of having it's power between 6000-8000rpm, it has a more broader power band. HOWEVER, because once you get past the launch, you spend all the rest of the time in that 6000-8000rpm range, which is EXACTLY where the 6thgen Si has it's power band, that gives the top end advantage to the previous gen Si.

And regardless of whether or not you think it does or doesn't make sense, the 6th gen Si was capable of 15.5 which is even with or maybe a tad faster than the ep hatch. And since you think that it's not possible that could happen because why would a manufacturer do that? Well because the new Si was made for a particular market and probably aimed more at the tuner crowd and the auto cross crowd. And we all know the new Si is a better tuner car than the old Si. And probably better at autocross too.

The 6th gen Si is equal or faster than the ep hatch. But you don't believe that cuz it "wouldn't make sense". well then... the new Si weighs MORE than the 6th gen Si, AND it's a hatchback. But I suppose you don't believe that either cuz it "wouldn't make sense".

Your ep hatch isn't faster than the 6th gen Si. Get over it.

 
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I hate to rain on the ep parade here, but Honda themselves even stated that "while the new Si may not be any faster..." can't remember the rest of the statement, but I do remember that.
I personally haven't been beat by a 99-00 si with bolt ons. Maybe they suck, who knows. I don't give a damn. I will say that Honda went a weird direction with the new si. I almost think they want those that love the si, to turn over and go to the RSX-S. Lately I've even thought about selling all my **** and doing that, but I'd still be going with the pathetic front suspension I now have. The car handles pretty good with what I've done to it, but overall, a full independent suspension is better than this.

 
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Um, I dont konw what car your driving, but a McPhearson Strut is a type of Independent suspension. Also, I dont know about the EP, but My coupe handles Pretty damn well. and From the comments of other autocrossers that have driven my car, they've said that it may be better balanced then the older Civics.

 
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hahahaaa, anyway, the earlier setup was better and you know it. I didn't say it handles bad, as you can read once again that I said it handles well. But for what I want, I don't like it. It's called an opinion. and no, we do not have an independent suspension up front.

 
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Hmm..... Shure a double wish bone suspension May be better, but VERY few companys actually use it. In fact I can Name 3 Prominat car manufacturers that use McPhearson struts with good results......

BMW, Porsche and Mercedes.
good enough for them, good enough for me.

so quit complainin about the suspension.

and once again, the McPheason strut is an Independant suspension set up.

 
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I had thought the new Si was supposed to handle better than the previous gen. I am certain of that.

 
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I'll complain about it if I want, you can't stop that. I haven't got on to you about what you think, so why the hell are you arguing about it?

those cars....are much better than ours...apples and oranges.

 
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PS.... Zzyzx, I was messing with you on the mcpherson not being independent. Not that you didn't have a reason to say that, as I wasn't being clear about the suspension I preferred.

 
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in my opinion, stock for stock, the older si handled better, but that could just be because it's lighter. Have you driven the new si at all?

 
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After owning the new SI and driving the older one, I can say that the older one does handle better.

 
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Yeah I owned an old one, and have driven a new one, but never really got to test it's handling charachteristics.

 
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[BEGIN RANT] I just get tired of hearing about how the new civic Handles worse then the older civics........ When 99% of the time its the driver whos doing things wrong. Unless you happen to be a race car driver or have done Extensive race traning or Autocross, I can just about Guarantee that the driver is the problem not the car. Hell, I've been doing Autocross for little over a year now, and Though I am doing pretty good, I still make mistakes. From Entering a corner too fast to turning in to late and a multitude of other stupid driver errors. I know for a FACT that Right now I am the only thing making my car slow or handle poorly. And the sooner people stop blaming the car for what is most likely driver error, the sooner they'll start driving better.
[/End Rant]

 
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okay, I can understand that and can't disagree, since I know I'm not that good of a driver when it comes to autocrossing.

I've been a few times and know how much more I need to improve.

What is your suspension setup? I've been having some problems with mine lately. A creaking sound only when turning the wheel to the right. And it's not the o ring on the top. I suspected the tie rod might be making the sound. It's a creak like a door creaking. It's so damn annoying. I've tried and tried to fix it, but alas no results. It just started happening a month ago. I've had the suspension of mine on for a while. I also know it's not the springs or sleeves, as I jacked the car up enough to have pressure on the wheel/tire but none on the spring and sleeves.

I have koni yellows, skunk2 sleeves. Some other crap like sway bars, but that's no the problem of course. My biggest thing with this new suspension is it seems so damn sensitive when you modify it.

 
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hmm?....i never said in stock form....thee hatch is taking very well to mods...hence my statement.....

 
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For the sound...... Sounds like chassis Flex. Is it coming from the front or the rear. and does it happen all the time or just in hard corners?

Regarding suspension.....
I've done even less then you. H&R sport springs, 19mm rear Sway bar and a Front Upper Strutbar. Still on Weak *** Stock struts.
At least you have Koni Adjustibles, that way you can tune out some of your cars issues.
But before you can do any of that you have to understand whats goin on with your car. as in Where is it having problems? Understeer on corner entry, Corner exit or Mid corner? Does it oversteer sometimes? also, how smooth are you with the controls? If youre jerky with the steering wheel then you can cause a lot of Understeer/oversteer and generaly unbalance the whole car. How are you with the breaks? Do you slam on them and then enter the turn? Do you use the breaks durring the turn? How do you come off the breaks? Is it a smoot motion or do you "Hop" off of them? Do you have both hands on the wheel when youre turning? as far as racing is concerned the only time you touch the shifter is when youre shifting. Other wise Hands a 9 and 3 (10 and 2 that you were taught in Drivers ed...Dosnt give you the control and leverage that 9 and 3 does). what about down shifting? Do you do it before the corner, In the corner or after the corner? On corner exit, do you get a lot of Understeer? Do you Pounce on the gas as soon as you pass the apex? or do you squeeze the gass?

There is a vast number of things that a driver does that can Upset the car, from turning the wheel too quickly to using the break and gas inaproreatly.

Concentrate on being Smooth through the turns rather then being Fast. Once you get smooth, and you will feel it (Its like gliding through a turn, nothing jerky nothing bouncing), then you'll probably be going through the turns much faster then you realized.... And once you do that, then you can tune the suspenson to meet your needs.

Best quote I can think of regarding this is

 
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Go to Motortrend and look it up. The Expert's ran a 15.7 with the 99-00 Si and with the new one it was like a 15.9. And I know that they are better in the 1/4 than most people out on the street. And it isn't IMPOSSIBLE for Honda to make a newer version of a car slower, why is that so unbelievable???

 
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well since you want to open that bag of worms, a 6th gen Si ran 14.7x with intake/header/exhaust.

 
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Don't mag race. And don't quote mag times as if they are set in stone.

Real world drivers and owners will ALWAYS (and I repeat that) ALWAYS eventually get better times than the magazines. Why? Because no matter how "professional" these guys are at running the 1/4 mile, they only get a few runs with these cars to get the best they can. However, someone who owns the car, drives it day in and day out, and takes it to the track a few times a year will eventually KNOW their car BETTER than those mag guys ever did. Know how to launch it, drive it, shift it, and run it. So case in point, mags will 99% of the time NEVER get the best times. Real world drivers will. If you do research you will see this is true.

A few examples:

S2000. Best mag time was 13.8. Best real world was 13.66
Camaro LS1 Best mag time was 13.4. Best real world is around 13.0/12.9x
And so on.

So don't quote mag times as the end all to any 1/4 mile arguments.

 
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S2000 man I'm not talking about S2000's with bolt ons running a 13.66 or a Camaro LS1 running a high 12. The test drivers for magazine's run a distance (0-60,60-0,0-100,etc.) over and over and over again till they get the best time that they can possibly get. I'm sure after all of those attempts they get a feel for the car. Prove to me that a stoke S2000 and a stock Camaro LS1 run a high 12, that's all I ask.

 
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not bad. i run about a 14.5 stock with an auto transmission. i have to vacuum lock before i can launch though to get a decent time w/ auto.

 
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thats pretty impressive...although you cant base everything off of one person and a good run...even if he is consistant.....a big factor is location...in florida...ive never seen an si run that well with only i/h/e...unfortunately....because of the air...times are definately not equivilant to what the same setups are running elsewhere.....

my opinion isnt souly based on track times anyway......on thee street....i believe that a new si will take an old one in most cases.....thats just from personal experience....you've obviously driven both and you dont share thee same opinion.......i guess we all prefer something different