this is better. new block pics!!!!!!
12-26-2002
#61
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[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
ok so hears the deal tel lmme what you think. if it will work cause you have confused the heck out of me by trying to tell me wrong things to see if i knew what i was saying.. here is what i got goin on now.
i can use my stock crank shaft. with the shorter rods. and new pistons.. if i get the x number of mm taken off the top of the block. or do i need to use the crank out of a d 1.6? with out the d16 crank the stroke in the crank and the rods will not be equil. will it work if i use a d17 crank with the d16 rods?? tellme what you think.. i am confused now..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
ok so hears the deal tel lmme what you think. if it will work cause you have confused the heck out of me by trying to tell me wrong things to see if i knew what i was saying.. here is what i got goin on now.
i can use my stock crank shaft. with the shorter rods. and new pistons.. if i get the x number of mm taken off the top of the block. or do i need to use the crank out of a d 1.6? with out the d16 crank the stroke in the crank and the rods will not be equil. will it work if i use a d17 crank with the d16 rods?? tellme what you think.. i am confused now..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG][hr]
So if they are 137mm, then the D17 crank will work fine and you'll have no compression issues. If you go with the D16 crank from the integra, you'll need to shave 2.2mm off your block.
12-26-2002
#62
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not that much i spent on parts...
arias pistons~ $500
eagle rods~$377
block work probably cost like ~ $600
block gaurd ~ $140
head work total~ $ 2500
fuel work ~ $500
the nos set up was like ~$850
clutch and flywheel was like ~ $900
and a lot of little stuff (pullys,head studs) ~ $800
but when its said and done you have a motor that will not break and then you can go with a bigger turbo or more nitrous. than you can with a stock motor wether it be a k20 or a d17. but thats just parts. to ahve all the labor added in to it you will probably be looking at about 5 to 10k bux worth of work. depending on where you take it. helps if u have the ***** and work space to do it your self!
arias pistons~ $500
eagle rods~$377
block work probably cost like ~ $600
block gaurd ~ $140
head work total~ $ 2500
fuel work ~ $500
the nos set up was like ~$850
clutch and flywheel was like ~ $900
and a lot of little stuff (pullys,head studs) ~ $800
but when its said and done you have a motor that will not break and then you can go with a bigger turbo or more nitrous. than you can with a stock motor wether it be a k20 or a d17. but thats just parts. to ahve all the labor added in to it you will probably be looking at about 5 to 10k bux worth of work. depending on where you take it. helps if u have the ***** and work space to do it your self!
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 great i am gona make a few phone calls and i willya knwo what happends. thanks a lot bro. see what people can accomplish when they are not flaming each other! i am determined to get this thing running befor this year ends! lol ur right there is nothign on these motors on the net to look up. [IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 i cant find the eagle phone number! the box and recipts are at my friends shop. see if you can find the number or just find a mesurement for the d 16 h beam rods. it says on the site that they are 5.394". what does that work out to in mm do you know??
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 actually i just found a old math equation. 5.394 inches works out to be 137.0076 mm. so that works out great. no problems there. this is great news! thaksn for the help man. 
i willlet ya know what happends from here keep an eye out for this thread!
i willlet ya know what happends from here keep an eye out for this thread!
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 Alas progress and more well laid out sentances to the point that your alot more easily understandable [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].
When you get the chance..yet again..can you post up or email me a pic of your intake manifold?
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].When you get the chance..yet again..can you post up or email me a pic of your intake manifold?
12-26-2002
#67
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[hr]Originally posted by: mohawkboom
Alas progress and more well laid out sentances to the point that your alot more easily understandable[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].
When you get the chance..yet again..can you post up or email me a pic of your intake manifold?[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: mohawkboom
Alas progress and more well laid out sentances to the point that your alot more easily understandable
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].When you get the chance..yet again..can you post up or email me a pic of your intake manifold?[hr]
12-26-2002
#69
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Rep Power: 377 Cool, then as long as the info I found on the stock D17 rods was precise (being that they are also 137mm) then you're good. I will be asking my friend at the honda dealer next week to be certain.
With your arias pistons, did you get domed pistons? Make sure they have proper piston to valve clearance.
With your arias pistons, did you get domed pistons? Make sure they have proper piston to valve clearance.
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 Holy $hit, how did I know this thread would be at the top of the page.
I've given up trying to belive this joker, and I know pretty much everyone else has, I hope. Not that I really care if he/she gets the damn thing to work in the first place.
I've given up trying to belive this joker, and I know pretty much everyone else has, I hope. Not that I really care if he/she gets the damn thing to work in the first place.
12-26-2002
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Rep Power: 0 i got dish style. cause the nitrous will mix better in a dish than a dome style. also to have valve clerance. yea as long as the crank mesures out o be 137 mm than i am fine. does anyone know for sure i will cal lthe dealer tommrow and see if they can tell me. see if you can find out too. thanks man i appriciate it!
12-26-2002
#72
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[hr]Originally posted by: LOWBOY
Holy $hit, how did I know this thread would be at the top of the page.
I've given up trying to belive this joker, and I know pretty much everyone else has, I hope. Not that I really care if he/she gets the damn thing to work in the first place.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: LOWBOY
Holy $hit, how did I know this thread would be at the top of the page.
I've given up trying to belive this joker, and I know pretty much everyone else has, I hope. Not that I really care if he/she gets the damn thing to work in the first place.[hr]
12-26-2002
#73
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[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
i got dish style. cause the nitrous will mix better in a dish than a dome style. also to have valve clerance. yea as long as the crank mesures out o be 137 mm than i am fine. does anyone know for sure i will cal lthe dealer tommrow and see if they can tell me. see if you can find out too. thanks man i appriciate it![hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
i got dish style. cause the nitrous will mix better in a dish than a dome style. also to have valve clerance. yea as long as the crank mesures out o be 137 mm than i am fine. does anyone know for sure i will cal lthe dealer tommrow and see if they can tell me. see if you can find out too. thanks man i appriciate it![hr]
12-27-2002
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Rep Power: 0 our stock rods are 139 mm and the d16 rods are 137 mm so i need to have my block shaved 2.2 mm or so. it sux looks like it will be next week till its together. 
12-27-2002
#75
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Rep Power: 377 ooooo. Okay, so they ARE 139mm. So right now you have a 2mm deficit. BEFORE you do anything to your block, are you SURE that the height on the new pistons are the same as the height was on the old pistons? (don't count the dome or dish.... the heigh is measure from how tall it is from where the piston connects to the rod.... to the height of the edge of the piston)
12-27-2002
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Rep Power: 0 Also..what's the job # for the Arias Pistons?..JE only has a job # for 10.5:1 ,and 11:1 would give me much better throttle response..
I have a slow going project to kill GSR's with an N/A D17A1
I have a slow going project to kill GSR's with an N/A D17A1
12-28-2002
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Rep Power: 0 the deck hight is the same on our blocks and the d 1.6 blocks. so the 2mm that i am short the d16 crank will make up for the difference. they are 11-1 cr. sick set up pics will be up later on tongiht i gotta go to work.
12-28-2002
#78
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[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
the deck hight is the same on our blocks and the d 1.6 blocks. so the 2mm that i am short the d16 crank will make up for the difference. they are 11-1 cr. sick set up pics will be up later on tongiht i gotta go to work.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Black99Vtec
the deck hight is the same on our blocks and the d 1.6 blocks. so the 2mm that i am short the d16 crank will make up for the difference. they are 11-1 cr. sick set up pics will be up later on tongiht i gotta go to work.[hr]
12-28-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
12-28-2002
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Rep Power: 0 are you 100% positive that the d 1.6 crank will not make the diff? i need to know 100%. i need to get this thing on the road. its driving me crazy! i have been told from my friend that it will make up the diff. and ur telling me that it wont. also i have pics of my pistons and rods to put up here can someone resize them and put them on here for me? if i email them to you?
12-29-2002
#82
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[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
people that screw up...then throw excuses at you to say they were trying to trick u...not cool s2kman.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
12-29-2002
#83
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Rep Power: 377 yeah email them to HOST Guide STOOK@aol.com
And I'm positive that if you are changing the crank, and destroking the engine, you have to make up for that 2.2mm. But since you are hearing conflicting stories, call someone who knows a thing or two. Maybe even king motorsports (kingmotorsports.com) and ask someone at a shop. Trust me, they'll tell you that you have to adjust somehow for that space.
And I'm positive that if you are changing the crank, and destroking the engine, you have to make up for that 2.2mm. But since you are hearing conflicting stories, call someone who knows a thing or two. Maybe even king motorsports (kingmotorsports.com) and ask someone at a shop. Trust me, they'll tell you that you have to adjust somehow for that space.
12-29-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Uh, this isn't the first time I've done it.... and other members knew about it. Don't belittle me when you don't know what you're talking about.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
people that screw up...then throw excuses at you to say they were trying to trick u...not cool s2kman.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
12-30-2002
#85
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[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
youre right, im not well versed in engine details. i do know an excuse when i hear it though...and you just backed up one excuse with another excuse (this isnt the first time...other members...). no biggie though, just a normal fruedian defense mechanism.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Uh, this isn't the first time I've done it.... and other members knew about it. Don't belittle me when you don't know what you're talking about.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
people that screw up...then throw excuses at you to say they were trying to trick u...not cool s2kman.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: PwN3d
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: S2000man01
Alright Black99VTEC.
I have tried throwing you a curve to get you to explain how destroking of an engine is done. Can you destroke an engine by chaning the crank? Yes... however, the mods you have listed on your car make your story unbelieveable. I also threw you off by saying that the stroke is determined by the rod, but it's not. Bore is the diameter of the piston, and stroke is the distance the piston moves when it goes from TDC to BDC (up and down in the chamber.... top dead center to bottom dead center)
You can change this by changing the crank, HOWEVER, in order to keep compression, you'd have to get LONGER rods and/or taller pistons. BUT you have gotten SHORTER rods, and from what I've read, you do NOT have taller pistons. So right now, your compression will be crappy and lower. I mean, do you realize that with what you say you've done, you have to have a shop CALCULATE your compression to make sure that everything is where it should be and the measurements are correct? I sure know you haven't done it yourself, as you've demonstrated the length of your automotive knowledge in this thread.
I will get into the fine details of destroking later..... I have to read up to refresh my memory. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
01-01-2003
#86
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Rep Power: 0 the d16 crank will make up the difference for the shorter rod. its like having a set ya know... a d16 crank will work with the d16 rods. same as the d17 crank will fit the d17 rods. if i were to use the d16 rods on the d 17 crank then i would have to compensate for the 2.2 mm diff. but thanks for all the help this motor wil be very interesting to see what it puts down on the dyno!
01-27-2004
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by S2000man01
Hey, I still wanna know what your bore and stroke is, now that you've destroked the car!
And by cooling problem, I'm talking about the cylinder head, and top of the cylinder wall. The block gaurd prevents coolant from reaching that part of the cylinder walls. block guards are usually recommended for off-street use due to that problem, and are not so great for daily drivers. Daily drivers are generally recommended for just re-sleeving to strengthen the cylinder walls.
Also, when you destroked the engine, you are causing more side load on the cylinder wall, which doesn't help your cooling situation. You might want to look into this, if you're going to continue down that path!
I don't totally believe you yet, and am still skeptical, but if you are getting these things done to your car, knowledge is power, and knowing this info can only help.
Hey, I still wanna know what your bore and stroke is, now that you've destroked the car!
And by cooling problem, I'm talking about the cylinder head, and top of the cylinder wall. The block gaurd prevents coolant from reaching that part of the cylinder walls. block guards are usually recommended for off-street use due to that problem, and are not so great for daily drivers. Daily drivers are generally recommended for just re-sleeving to strengthen the cylinder walls.
Also, when you destroked the engine, you are causing more side load on the cylinder wall, which doesn't help your cooling situation. You might want to look into this, if you're going to continue down that path!
I don't totally believe you yet, and am still skeptical, but if you are getting these things done to your car, knowledge is power, and knowing this info can only help.
block guards are NOT all that bad for cooling. the thicker sleeves will result in more heat retention than the block guard.
de stroking REDUCES side loads by giving you a better rod/stroke ratio. if you dont believe me, i can break out my old graphing calc and show you.
as for the bore and stroke, the stroke would be the stroke from the old D16 crank (90mm)
and bore would be 75mm or a little more if he had it bored over.
sorry to dig up an old post, but i was doing a search for info, and came across this.
01-27-2004
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Rep Power: 585 Originally posted by Zer0DazE
holy crap... i have never seen so much misinformation in 1 post.
block guards are NOT all that bad for cooling. the thicker sleeves will result in more heat retention than the block guard.
de stroking REDUCES side loads by giving you a better rod/stroke ratio. if you dont believe me, i can break out my old graphing calc and show you.
as for the bore and stroke, the stroke would be the stroke from the old D16 crank (90mm)
and bore would be 75mm or a little more if he had it bored over.
sorry to dig up an old post, but i was doing a search for info, and came across this.
holy crap... i have never seen so much misinformation in 1 post.
block guards are NOT all that bad for cooling. the thicker sleeves will result in more heat retention than the block guard.
de stroking REDUCES side loads by giving you a better rod/stroke ratio. if you dont believe me, i can break out my old graphing calc and show you.
as for the bore and stroke, the stroke would be the stroke from the old D16 crank (90mm)
and bore would be 75mm or a little more if he had it bored over.
sorry to dig up an old post, but i was doing a search for info, and came across this.
01-27-2004
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by civic01vtec
haha, u are trying to flame s2k man
haha, u are trying to flame s2k man
if i didnt know my head from my ***, i would believe his posts too.
but saying that the d16 and d17 cranks are not interchangable is WRONG.
saying that a crank does not determine displacement is RETARDED.
crank = stoke
read a few pages back where he posted how to find displacement... you will see stoke and bore in that equation... put 2 and 2 together and make 4. stroke is 1/2 of displacement.
lets talk some more about destroking and stroking an engine... perhaps some of you are old enough to remember V8's (yes, there are motors with more than 4 cylinders)
how do you think they used to stroke and de stroke them... swap cranks and rods.
you think its different for inline 4's?????
how about this
http://www.modacar.com/products/Honda/Civic/MODASTK/
a stroker kit... notice the increased stroke.. via the crank
you could do the reverse.
or this one
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/stroker.shtml
again the same can be done in reverse.
ie. bisi has destroked a 1.6 to a 1.5... and even a 1.4 i believe. how you ask.
the crank, and rods
