ems vs. hondata k pro????
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ems vs. hondata k pro????
hey guys i ned a new managment system. what should i go with ems or hondata k pro. i hear good about both.. need help asap please!!!!
Last edited by HwNpRyDe_CiViC; Mar 5, 2007 at 02:14 PM.
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Well since D-pro just came out, I highly doubt anyone's got it already and has been able to truly put it through its paces. So you either try the new one, or buy an EMS.
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Rep Power: 281 I think thats cool that K Pro is an option now but still does not seem practical for the price and work that needs to be done for it work. I would still go EMS if you can afford it bc of ease of installation.
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Originally Posted by ronaldo9
I think thats cool that K Pro is an option now but still does not seem practical for the price and work that needs to be done for it work. I would still go EMS if you can afford it bc of ease of installation.
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Rep Power: 423 The K-Pro is a very mature system that has been used and proven by thousands of K series owners. It is exactly this same system + a cam timing wheel that is now available for the D series. Ask some of the users at clubRSX: http://forums.clubrsx.com/forumdisplay.php?f=130
Thats using a stock ecu to run a motor that its designed to run. This is running SOHC motor with a DOHC ecu. Its NEW, the programming may not be, but the two motors operate different enough that there is going to be some figuring out that needs to be done, especially for tuners seeing it on a D series for the first time. I'm sure the R&D's been done well, but pardon me for being a little skeptic about it. When K pro first came out and you guys tried hooking this up to a D17 and concluded there was no way it was gonna work and there's no market for it either, then it suddenly comes out a few years later, I gotta wonder a little bit, while at the same time understanding that things change in the interim.
If the car is an 01-03, can a wideband be added and the box read it? Can ANY wideband sensor be used or must it be a Honda one? A whole lot of us have UEGOs or PLX widebands already, it doesnt make much sense to go buy another one, nor does it make much sense to buy the thing because you can pass OBDII inspection with it, just to have to turn the OBD codes off because the car has a narrowband primary.
Does it have boost control built in? 2-step? Does it need a separate MAP sensor to read boost? The page says it works with boost, but not much more. I know the stock MAP sensor can read some positive pressure, but not a lot.
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Rep Power: 0 - Boost control by gear built in
- 2 step built in
- Antilag built in
- Stock map sensor reads up to abhout 10 psi boost
- Option for a 3.5 bar map sensor for 60 psi boost.
The main differnece between the D and the K engines as far as management is concerned is VTC (cam phasing). Switch this off and you have DOHC engine. We've tuned many engines in this way.
As far as the engine management is concerned there is no difference between DOHC and SOHC VTEC.
Activate VTEC. Get more air, add more fuel and alter the ignition. The K-Pro has seperate fuel and ignition maps for the low and high cam and switches between them at VTEC. Just like stock.
The fuel and ignition values for the base map provided are identical to the stock D17 ECU.
The later model Civics use wideband sensors, so it makes sense to use those by default. However for any of the D17 Civics you can take your 0-5V wideband output and feed it onto the ECU for datalolgging.
If you have the narrowband sensor, you do not need to turn OBD II off.
- 2 step built in
- Antilag built in
- Stock map sensor reads up to abhout 10 psi boost
- Option for a 3.5 bar map sensor for 60 psi boost.
The main differnece between the D and the K engines as far as management is concerned is VTC (cam phasing). Switch this off and you have DOHC engine. We've tuned many engines in this way.
As far as the engine management is concerned there is no difference between DOHC and SOHC VTEC.
Activate VTEC. Get more air, add more fuel and alter the ignition. The K-Pro has seperate fuel and ignition maps for the low and high cam and switches between them at VTEC. Just like stock.
The fuel and ignition values for the base map provided are identical to the stock D17 ECU.
The later model Civics use wideband sensors, so it makes sense to use those by default. However for any of the D17 Civics you can take your 0-5V wideband output and feed it onto the ECU for datalolgging.
If you have the narrowband sensor, you do not need to turn OBD II off.
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Rep Power: 423 The later model Civics use wideband sensors, so it makes sense to use those by default. However for any of the D17 Civics you can take your 0-5V wideband output and feed it onto the ECU for datalolgging.
If you have the narrowband sensor, you do not need to turn OBD II off.
"These Civics have a narrowband O2 sensor. The donor US ECUs (see above) are designed to run by default with a wideband front O2 sensor. So we use a European PRA calibration, which is designed to run with a front and rear narrowband O2 sensor, feed the voltage from the Civic's front O2 sensor into the K-Pro's rear O2 sensor input, and alter the K-Manager software to run closed loop from the secondary O2 input. In this situation OBD II must be disabled."
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From: CenTex
Rep Power: 279 Seriously how do you debate this, your talking directly to hondata. Seriously They came out with a suitable option for the D17, and personaly if i still had my D17 i would easily take Hondata over AEM EMS anyday.
What does the EMS do?
1) controls timing
2) controls ignition
3) controls Fuel
4) boost controllers
5) and tons more functions
although a D17 is not a DOHC it still uses the same AEM EMS that the RSX DC5 or SI uses. So why is it hard to grasp the concept that a hondata would work for a D17.
They originally were trying with the D17 ecu, but for the gains that they would have got it would have cost you just as much to purchase the k-pro.
So how did you do it Hondata?0?
Im thinking the same thing AEM does. Only they hook you us up with a cam gear that counter acts the fact the the D17 rotates in the opposite direction as the K20. Then you still control Fuel and Ignition. You can control your Vtec engagement point but not a variable cam angles(thats what the cam gear also does?). But either way. it completely makes since to me.
Plus you have upgrade ability to a new engine. If you udate your firm wear like on the EMS you dont have to go get a re tune, since you cant use your old maps. Where as Hondata K-pro you still can use the same maps. Honestly the k-pro is well worth the money in my book.
now if someone wants to get crazy wild and my a D17 K20 hybrid... well they cant but it was a good ide for a whole .023 seconds.
What does the EMS do?
1) controls timing
2) controls ignition
3) controls Fuel
4) boost controllers
5) and tons more functions
although a D17 is not a DOHC it still uses the same AEM EMS that the RSX DC5 or SI uses. So why is it hard to grasp the concept that a hondata would work for a D17.
They originally were trying with the D17 ecu, but for the gains that they would have got it would have cost you just as much to purchase the k-pro.
So how did you do it Hondata?0?
Im thinking the same thing AEM does. Only they hook you us up with a cam gear that counter acts the fact the the D17 rotates in the opposite direction as the K20. Then you still control Fuel and Ignition. You can control your Vtec engagement point but not a variable cam angles(thats what the cam gear also does?). But either way. it completely makes since to me.
Plus you have upgrade ability to a new engine. If you udate your firm wear like on the EMS you dont have to go get a re tune, since you cant use your old maps. Where as Hondata K-pro you still can use the same maps. Honestly the k-pro is well worth the money in my book.
now if someone wants to get crazy wild and my a D17 K20 hybrid... well they cant but it was a good ide for a whole .023 seconds.
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From: CenTex
Rep Power: 279 Well the website says you disable it, so whats the right answer?
"These Civics have a narrowband O2 sensor. The donor US ECUs (see above) are designed to run by default with a wideband front O2 sensor. So we use a European PRA calibration, which is designed to run with a front and rear narrowband O2 sensor, feed the voltage from the Civic's front O2 sensor into the K-Pro's rear O2 sensor input, and alter the K-Manager software to run closed loop from the secondary O2 input. In this situation OBD II must be disabled."
"These Civics have a narrowband O2 sensor. The donor US ECUs (see above) are designed to run by default with a wideband front O2 sensor. So we use a European PRA calibration, which is designed to run with a front and rear narrowband O2 sensor, feed the voltage from the Civic's front O2 sensor into the K-Pro's rear O2 sensor input, and alter the K-Manager software to run closed loop from the secondary O2 input. In this situation OBD II must be disabled."
Now you can get one for the New Si (since they are cheaper than those of the RSX and work exactly the same*its been tested* $101 at majestic), build you a harness and you have a wide band on your D17.. think of the options bro.
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Rep Power: 279 Im for Hondata all the way. im just saying that AEM has the WORST softwear known to man and is not user friendly. But im just trying to show that if you give a new product a chance it will prove its self in the end. And you cant really compare these two products at this time and point. Cause who on this forum uses Hondata other than us k-swapped guys.
I mean i can already see how it works, and i thought about that a long time ago, just didnt even know how to impliment it. But now you only have a few people on here who can put this to good use.. and one of them im try to get to sell his AEM and get the hondata!
*hey hondata trade andyman a k-pro for his AEM, and tune his car* hes already putting down 350whp.. That would be your chance to really prove this product!
I mean i can already see how it works, and i thought about that a long time ago, just didnt even know how to impliment it. But now you only have a few people on here who can put this to good use.. and one of them im try to get to sell his AEM and get the hondata!
*hey hondata trade andyman a k-pro for his AEM, and tune his car* hes already putting down 350whp.. That would be your chance to really prove this product!
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Rep Power: 281 As of right now Hondata is the only place competent enought to pull this off. For those of us that don't live in California this is obviously not an option. I know for a fact this is going to be more complicated than you make it out to be. And making harnesses are not exactly sound for your average joe tuner. I will wait to see the popularity in this but for now I'll sit back and await results. PS I know kpro can disable ur immobilizer but what happens if you want to keep that feature. How do you get your key to work with the new computer?
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Rep Power: 0 No. Do not send us your key and immobilizer. We do not reprogram immobilizers. Your Honda dealer will do this:
http://www.hondata.com/immobilizer.html
With regards to passing emissions tests, this thread may provide some answers:
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...eadiness+codes
http://www.hondata.com/immobilizer.html
With regards to passing emissions tests, this thread may provide some answers:
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...eadiness+codes
essentially your D17 can be tuned exactly the same way a k20 is.. its the same software and has everything a k20 has and can do.. boost control.. vtec control,, only difference is that you cant do vtc tune on the D17..
i street tune a lot of cars every weekend.. everything from the S300 to the Kpro and even the EMS and greddy systems.. if u see my laptop and have every programming tuning software on there... the past 2 weeks i been tuning a few evo's back to back... and you know what.. i can officially say i fricken hate the ems... dont get me wrong i love the instant updating of the ems... but damn... if my job was to tune it day in and day out.. i would quit that job in a heart beat...
you guys are making the Kpro for the D17 seem worse than most of you think.. you dont have to make a harness.. its literally almost plug and play.. and install a cam gear.. thats it.. upload a base map and tune when applicable... just think of it as having all the same features as the kpro... we just got a customer walk-in today asking us to order it for him.. he put a down payment and said he will be coming by later in the week for the rest..
i street tune a lot of cars every weekend.. everything from the S300 to the Kpro and even the EMS and greddy systems.. if u see my laptop and have every programming tuning software on there... the past 2 weeks i been tuning a few evo's back to back... and you know what.. i can officially say i fricken hate the ems... dont get me wrong i love the instant updating of the ems... but damn... if my job was to tune it day in and day out.. i would quit that job in a heart beat...
you guys are making the Kpro for the D17 seem worse than most of you think.. you dont have to make a harness.. its literally almost plug and play.. and install a cam gear.. thats it.. upload a base map and tune when applicable... just think of it as having all the same features as the kpro... we just got a customer walk-in today asking us to order it for him.. he put a down payment and said he will be coming by later in the week for the rest..
you know what.. forgot to mention.. lets say you build your D17.. go boost... and then lets say you decide to do a k20 swap...
well for one... you already got the ecu.. and the ecu is still plug and play cause you still use the same ecu.. all you need is the engine harness and motor and the rest of the stuff and your good to go
well for one... you already got the ecu.. and the ecu is still plug and play cause you still use the same ecu.. all you need is the engine harness and motor and the rest of the stuff and your good to go
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