Dyno #s for a K20a2 are in!! Sheet Added - Honda Civic Forum



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Old 07-19-2006   #1
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Exclamation Dyno #s for a K20a2 are in!! Sheet Added

Ok I got my car dyno tuned today. I won't bore anyone with all of the details and just go strait to the results.

Car: EM2 civic coupe with a K20a2 engine

Power Mods:AEM v2 intake, Strup race header, skunk 2 exhaust, and Kpro

Info: ambient air temp. was 90 degrees, the dyno was a mustang dyno. For those of you who don't know the mustang is atleast 10% lower than any other dyno, however it is the most accurate. The pull was from 4th gear.

Peak whp-201hp
Peak torque-151lbs


Last edited by EMK20a2; 07-24-2006 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 07-19-2006   #2
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worthless without pics. lol. nice numbers btw.
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Old 07-19-2006   #3
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nice man...whats the difference between whp and hp?
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Old 07-19-2006   #4
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awesome mang...where r u located at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soldierboi
nice man...whats the difference between whp and hp?
whp= wheel horsepower
hp = crank horsepower

Last edited by s0ltker; 07-19-2006 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 07-19-2006   #5
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thats exciting man. im jealous. thats what i want to do to my car..
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Old 07-19-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soldierboi
nice man...whats the difference between whp and hp?
Wheel hp is the hp that actually goes to the wheels of the car. Automotive manufacturers advertise crank hp as hp (meaning hp without the lost hp it takes to move the wheels). The differences vary especially with Hondas new method for calculating hp and different dynos. From the Mustang to Hondas new method I belive you have to add 23% to the mustang #s. So that would make my hp as defined by honda around 247hp
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Old 07-19-2006   #7
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not bad
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Old 07-19-2006   #8
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not bad....
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Old 07-19-2006   #9
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Old 07-20-2006   #10
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nice numbers...
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Old 07-20-2006   #11
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this is my opinion and my opinion only.

mustang dynos are complete garbage. I've seen mustang dynos read higher than normal ... normal ... and lower than normal. To me, they are the most inconsistant dyno out there.

I don't mean to bash your dyno results, but your dyno results look like they are a normal reading. Why do I say that? Well, it's definitely not 10% lower ... that would mean on any other dyno, your whp readings would be at 220 whp ... which is totally wrong.

In fact, if you ask me, I actually think that the mustang dyno you dyno'ed on was reading HIGH. 200 whp is what a typical K20A2 i/h/e/kpro gets at 75-80 ish degree ambient temp ... except with a cai. AEM v2 is a **** intake for K-series motors and it is pretty much the entire consensus on clubrsx that it does not give nearly the gains of a cai.

again, I'm not trying to bash your car or results, I'm just giving you my educated opinion on the matter.
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Old 07-20-2006   #12
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for comparrison sake there were many other dynos posted from this mustang dyno. Some that I recall are a stock Rsx 160whp and a boosted base rsx at 6psi at 180whp. So the mustang is low. That is very strange that you have heard that about a mustang considiering that is the first time I have heard anything negative regarding it. Infact what I have always seen on other forums and from others that have tons of dyno experience are mustang<dyno jet< dynapak. Infact dynapak is nearly crank hp #s

here are a few threads that support my statements:
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...t=mustang+dyno

Quote:
Originally Posted by null
the majority of the mustang dyno's read 12-15% lower then say a dynojet, however it is a good dyno to tune with. But if you're the type of guy that likes to brag how much power you make then the mustang dyno isn't for you haha.
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...t=mustang+dyno
http://forums.modulardepot.com/showt...?threadid=3640
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18029
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68141

Honestly, I am very suprised by your statments you are generally right on with what you say, but this time I think you are way off. Not to mention you are using dynapak #s.

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Old 07-20-2006   #13
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I don't know how you brought dynapaks into this ... I never claimed that dynapaks have accurate #'s .... but dynapaks are pretty consistant. Dynapaks do read their numbers at the hubs since you take off the wheels ... generally they are.

However, judging from your mods and the numbers your car is putting out on that dyno ... doesn't seem right. Like I said earlier, if you add 15% or even 12% to your 201 whp ... that is 213-216 whp on a dynojet... which doesn't make sense.

If you would like, I will find dynojet dynos of K20A2 i/h/e/kpro'ed ... they are generally gonna be right around 205 whp at most. And that is with a CAI ... having an sri would read even lower.

I know that MOST mustang dyno's read lower, but I've seen quite a few of them reading higher than normal ... and right on normal.... which makes me believe that they are inconsistant.

btw, a boosted base rsx at 180 whp sounds about right. They put down about 130-135 whp stock ... 6 psi [depending on setup] would put it right at 180 whp [dynojet]. If you check out clubrsx as well, most stock k20a2's are putting down about 165 whp on a dynojet.
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Old 07-20-2006   #14
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just post the pics!
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Old 07-20-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
I don't know how you brought dynapaks into this ... I never claimed that dynapaks have accurate #'s .... but dynapaks are pretty consistant. Dynapaks do read their numbers at the hubs since you take off the wheels ... generally they are.

However, judging from your mods and the numbers your car is putting out on that dyno ... doesn't seem right. Like I said earlier, if you add 15% or even 12% to your 201 whp ... that is 213-216 whp on a dynojet... which doesn't make sense.

If you would like, I will find dynojet dynos of K20A2 i/h/e/kpro'ed ... they are generally gonna be right around 205 whp at most. And that is with a CAI ... having an sri would read even lower.

I know that MOST mustang dyno's read lower, but I've seen quite a few of them reading higher than normal ... and right on normal.... which makes me believe that they are inconsistant.

btw, a boosted base rsx at 180 whp sounds about right. They put down about 130-135 whp stock ... 6 psi [depending on setup] would put it right at 180 whp [dynojet]. If you check out clubrsx as well, most stock k20a2's are putting down about 165 whp on a dynojet.
So you are basically saying that all k20's are the same horsepower? Maybe his motor was built on a monday? I know lots of the exact same car, can be put on the exact same dyno, and come up with very different numbers. Just depends on how close to detail that specific is. I'm not attacking you, but especially with a complicated engine such as the k20, there are so many things that can be different from one to the next. I also understand that dyno's can vary in their results as well, but it is very possible his car could be "normal" or even low in hp.

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Old 07-20-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0calypso93lx
So you are basically saying that all k20's are the same horsepower? Maybe his motor was built on a monday? I know lots of the exact same car, can be put on the exact same dyno, and come up with very different numbers. Just depends on how close to detail that specific is. I'm not attacking you, but especially with a complicated engine such as the k20, there are so many things that can be different from one to the next. I also understand that dyno's can vary in their results as well, but it is very possible his car could be "normal" or even low in hp.
^ 201 whp on a "low reading" mustang dyno is a high read for the mods that he has.

For his reading to be a "high" read, would be he would be putting down 220-225 whp on a dynojet, which is not possible for the mods he has.
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Old 07-20-2006   #17
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First of all I have a race header with no catt. that frees up a lot of airflow. Second the 201 whp was after 2.5 hrs of professional tuning. This is how it was done: We tuned the car doing 3rd gear pulls (produces lower hp., but is easier on the car for multiple pulls (15 to be exact). My baseline in 3rd gear was 180whp and the guy said that I was running very lean. After 2.5 hours of one of the best honda tuners in the area (changing cam angles, a/f ratio, etc.) we had 189whp in 3rd gear. We then did a 4th gear pull knowing that this is the best and most common gear to dyno a K20a2 in and produced 201whp. Engines vary alot, also just because you had bad luck with the V2 intake does not mean that everyone will. I happen to think it is a great intake and is worth the piece of mind of not hydro locking (yes I know people that have done it with a CAI). I will have the dynos up tommorrow
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Old 07-20-2006   #18
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I know that 4th gear is the best gear to run in. Most people dyno their cars in 4th gear.

Anyway, here are some comparison dynos.

Injen CAI, PRC Mani, Hondata IMG, ITR cams, JRRH with test pipe, Greddy SP2, and a partial tune of the ITR K-Pro calibration
203 whp on a dynojet.

Injen CAI, DCRH, DC TCS, IMG, TB bypass, K-pro [tuned] - 201 whp on a dynojet.

PRC IM, Hondata IMG, AEM CAI, Comptech RH, Toda Exhaust, Mugen Headgasket, Crower 3/4 Cams, OEM Spring Combo, K-100 (tuned) - 215 whp on a dynojet

DC CAI, DCRH, COMPTECH CATBACK EXHAUST, IMG, KPRO TUNED - 204 whp on a dynojet

and if you're still complaining about me, then take a look at this:

AEM V2, AEM Pulleys, hondata IMG, dcrh, 2.5" exhaust, PRC intake manifold, ITR cams, kpro Tuned 188 whp on a Mustang dyno

Note: Mr. Strup used to work for DC sports ... he quit working for them and started up his own company, Strup ... the Strup race header is an IDENTICAL design to the DC race header

~~~

I have more dyno comparisons if you want me to post them.

What is the point of all of this? ... all these guys have the same or MORE mods than you do and are either reading the same or Lower whp than you are. For your mustang dyno to be 12-15% low in its reading is not correct... or else the shop that did your tuning is alterning your results somehow. Like I was saying before, that particular mustang dyno was either reading low, the results were altered, or you had a significant torque/hp spike at your top rpm because your results are on-par or even a little higher with a typical dynojet dyno

Last edited by aznboysrfr; 07-20-2006 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 07-20-2006   #19
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It's not because 4th gear is going to yield you "more hp" per se, it's because it makes the best use of tuning, since it is the closest, if not right on, to a 1:1 gear.
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Old 07-20-2006   #20
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thats nice i plan on doing a K20 to
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Old 07-20-2006   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
I know that 4th gear is the best gear to run in. Most people dyno their cars in 4th gear.

Anyway, here are some comparison dynos.

Injen CAI, PRC Mani, Hondata IMG, ITR cams, JRRH with test pipe, Greddy SP2, and a partial tune of the ITR K-Pro calibration
203 whp on a dynojet.

Injen CAI, DCRH, DC TCS, IMG, TB bypass, K-pro [tuned] - 201 whp on a dynojet.

PRC IM, Hondata IMG, AEM CAI, Comptech RH, Toda Exhaust, Mugen Headgasket, Crower 3/4 Cams, OEM Spring Combo, K-100 (tuned) - 215 whp on a dynojet

DC CAI, DCRH, COMPTECH CATBACK EXHAUST, IMG, KPRO TUNED - 204 whp on a dynojet

and if you're still complaining about me, then take a look at this:

AEM V2, AEM Pulleys, hondata IMG, dcrh, 2.5" exhaust, PRC intake manifold, ITR cams, kpro Tuned 188 whp on a Mustang dyno

Note: Mr. Strup used to work for DC sports ... he quit working for them and started up his own company, Strup ... the Strup race header is an IDENTICAL design to the DC race header

~~~

I have more dyno comparisons if you want me to post them.

What is the point of all of this? ... all these guys have the same or MORE mods than you do and are either reading the same or Lower whp than you are. For your mustang dyno to be 12-15% low in its reading is not correct... or else the shop that did your tuning is alterning your results somehow. Like I was saying before, that particular mustang dyno was either reading low, the results were altered, or you had a significant torque/hp spike at your top rpm because your results are on-par or even a little higher with a typical dynojet dyno
So what is your basis for compareing a V2 to a CAI when the V2 is on a Mustang dyno and the rest are on dynojet dynos when the entire argument is that mustangs yeild lower #s?? I think that this proves my point a mustang dyno yeilds low #s and it is not the intake that is making the last car dyno at 188, it is the dyno. 188 is likley where I would have been if we would have done a 4th gear before tune pull. The thing is the guy that tuned my car is a great tuner and therefore was able to get more hp. Also hp #s vary in these engines and it depends on ALOT of variables.

The thing is that this particular dyno (along with MOST other mustangs) has been proven time and time again with many different cars to be consitanly around 10% low (stock STIs are only putting down 220whp). I am not just basing it off of what I know about mustang dynos it is what I know about this dyno. I honestly don't know why this is not good enough for you to except. And the thing with the V2, I understand that you like your CAI, but to say that a V2 is junk becuase you did not give it enough time or try to tune your car with it is not right. Just becuase you had a bad experience with it does not make it a bad intake. There are many people that have had great luck with it.

Anyways I am done debating this point. Besides I did not build a dyno queen and really could care less about the #s. The entire purpose of putting the car on a dyno was to tune it not to have a bragging #. I gained 9whp and over 10lbs of torque at the peak and 15whp in some areas from a good tune, so honestly if the # is higher, lower, or right on with other dynos I could really care less.

Last edited by EMK20a2; 07-20-2006 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 07-20-2006   #22
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Dyno #'s mean nothing.

Run it at the track, and then settle this debate.
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Old 07-21-2006   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMK20a2
So what is your basis for compareing a V2 to a CAI when the V2 is on a Mustang dyno and the rest are on dynojet dynos when the entire argument is that mustangs yeild lower #s?? I think that this proves my point a mustang dyno yeilds low #s and it is not the intake that is making the last car dyno at 188, it is the dyno. 188 is likley where I would have been if we would have done a 4th gear before tune pull. The thing is the guy that tuned my car is a great tuner and therefore was able to get more hp. Also hp #s vary in these engines and it depends on ALOT of variables.

The thing is that this particular dyno (along with MOST other mustangs) has been proven time and time again with many different cars to be consitanly around 10% low (stock STIs are only putting down 220whp). I am not just basing it off of what I know about mustang dynos it is what I know about this dyno. I honestly don't know why this is not good enough for you to except. And the thing with the V2, I understand that you like your CAI, but to say that a V2 is junk becuase you did not give it enough time or try to tune your car with it is not right. Just becuase you had a bad experience with it does not make it a bad intake. There are many people that have had great luck with it.

Anyways I am done debating this point. Besides I did not build a dyno queen and really could care less about the #s. The entire purpose of putting the car on a dyno was to tune it not to have a bragging #. I gained 9whp and over 10lbs of torque at the peak and 15whp in some areas from a good tune, so honestly if the # is higher, lower, or right on with other dynos I could really care less.
Nah, the V2 is TRASH because it's been proven time and time again. Search clubrsx ... you obviously never search there. You want me to own you here too? I will glady own you again with the V2 being trash.

hp figures vary, but they do not vary 12 whp unless you have a spike or unless the results have been altered.

btw, you haven't proven anything. Like I posted, the guy has MORE mods than you and is pulling LESS whp than you ... which means that your dyno reading has read too HIGH ... far too high in fact.

As far as my bolded quote goes ... it does not matter if you pulled a 3rd or 4th gear run before ... what matters is the final number, which you had said was done in 4th gear already. Most tuners ALREADY know to tune a k-series engine in 4th gear.

I don't care if you're building a "dyno queen" or not. The fact that you are stubborn about that mustang dyno reading high is the issue. Yes, you could easily gain lots of hp with a good tuner ... I went to shawn church and went from 224 hp to 240 hp with a good tune on a dynapak. I gained 15 hp, and I wouldn't be surprised if you or anyone else did ... but again, all I'm saying is that your numbers on that run are even a bit above a normal dynojet run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scansel912
Dyno #'s mean nothing.

Run it at the track, and then settle this debate.
track is even worse for consistancy than a dyno. temperature changes, wind changes, humidity, etc ... and not all runs are the same ... driver could have some bad runs one day and good runs another.

Last edited by aznboysrfr; 07-21-2006 at 03:39 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 07-21-2006   #24
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As I said before this particular Dyno has been proven time and time again to produce lower #s, I am not sure what makes you think that my car will be any different?? As for the dyno that you posted with the V2 if it was tuned it was not a good tune at all, becuase once I post my dyno up you will see that I have a much flatter line with far less dips. Also what was the elevation, the temp etc??

As I said before you are a knowlegeable person in some respect, but as far is this issue goes you know nothing. I am done, you can post all of the BS that you wish.
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Old 07-21-2006   #25
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haha I know nothing about this issue? what makes you believe that I know nothing about it?

I guess that all the people who got their cars tuned from the dynos that I posted have shitty tuners and your tuner is the greatest, huh? Look at the facts I put in front of you.

You have not posted a dyno sheet of your dyno, you have not posted dyno sheets of the other dyno runs that read low ... you have not done ANY research on clubrsx about dyno results about the AEM V2 and how trash that intake is. I don't know why you are defending the AEM V2 intake ... do you want me to post MORE dynos of that? ... I will GLADLY accommodate you there if you wish.

The elevation/temps of the dynos do not matter. You said that your own dyno was at 90 degrees ... for the other dynos to read that much lower, they all would have to be upwards of 105 degrees at least since their cars are making 200 whp on a dynojet when yours is 200 on a mustang or 215 on a dynojet.

I have seen a LOT of dyno charts on clubrsx and never have I ever seen an n/a K20A2 with stock internals/cams making 215 whp on a dynojet.

You have given me no proof to invalidate any of my claims/facts and you want to end the argument ... I don't know why you are so stubborn when I have clearly given you fact after fact about your dyno run reading high.

Last edited by aznboysrfr; 07-21-2006 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 07-21-2006   #26
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humm, ur dyno tunner is apparently not that good if it took him 2.5 hours...lol. my tuner took 1 hour. and he got everything right on the money..lol.

remember people, a dyno is only a tool for tuning a car for maximum horsepower. no 2 dyno's are the same since you can calibrate a dyno how ever you want. if you want to compare dynos to see who has the same horse power. go to the same dyno on the same day to see who higher numbers.

but for a mustang. thats a tad high... eh, but dynapacks are high.... idk...
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Old 07-21-2006   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
You have given me no proof to invalidate any of my claims/facts and you want to end the argument ... I don't know why you are so stubborn when I have clearly given you fact after fact about your dyno run reading high.
I posted plenty of proof that the general consensus is that Mustang dynos are low. And I know for a fact that many other people have produced lower than typical numbers on this SAME dyno. I am not being stuborn I am just not going to submit to you being correct when I know for a fact that you are completely wrong. It is not about the #s for me, but I am not going to let you come into my thread and post BS.

I think that everyone knows where you stand on the issue and everyone knows where I stand. There is no point of debating it any further. So lets just agree to disagree .

Last edited by EMK20a2; 07-21-2006 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 07-21-2006   #28
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you haven't posted any proof ... only your opinion
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Old 07-21-2006   #29
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im still waiting for the posted results
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Old 07-21-2006   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aznboysrfr
track is even worse for consistancy than a dyno. temperature changes, wind changes, humidity, etc ... and not all runs are the same ... driver could have some bad runs one day and good runs another.
Who cares if you have a 300 hp car that runs 14's? Dyno numbers don't mean **** if you can't drive your car. I think if you do a few runs down the track, you can get a pretty good idea how powerful your car is.
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