BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I'll be dropping my transmission in the next few months and as always I'm doing my research as to the problems I'm going to come up with. Subframe alignment seems to be a big one. What's the easiest way to align the subframe when reinstalling. Is it even necessary to align the subframe if I'm going to get an alignment following the job, do I have to be close if I'm doing an alignment?

Thanks in advance.

ezone

The two subframe "horns" nearest the axles, only remove the two horizontal bolts. The slots in those pieces will guide the subframe back into (good enough) position upon reassembly.
Horizontal bolts #3 here


Shove it in place, tighten the bolts. Don't worry about its "alignment" until someone finds the front end is out of whack when it gets the wheels aligned.

Even if you just yank everything apart, there really isn't much slop to move the subframe anyway.

It's not like a GM where I can get 3 degrees of alignment adjustments at each wheel by moving it around.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Ok sounds good. I'm still going to mark it and try to get it as close as possible to where it was before. I won't worry so much now though! Wait you must mean only remove the two vertical bolts?

ezone

You better ask mikey1 what his manual says to do.
I have never read a book in my freekin' life so anything I tell you just can't possibly be correct. Ever. I can't type either.

-----------------------------------

I don't bother to mark anything.
I separate the knuckles at the lower ball joint so there is no change to alignment other than subframe location, and that's very minimal. Rack stays attached to the subframe.
You would probably know if you got it far outta whack on the first test drive and find it now pulls left or right.
If it drove straight before, it still does when I get done.

If the steering wheel is off center when you get done, then you missed a spline on the rack when you stuck the shaft/u-joint back on. (Be SURE to read up on keeping the steering wheel straight or removing the clockspring so you don't damage it!!) I use a sharpie and sometimes an automatic center punch to make alignment marks. I don't remove the wheel and clockspring, I bungee cord the steering wheel in place so it can't turn once I remove the shaft.


I eyeball the front wheels straight before reconnecting the steering shaft.



There is a horizontal bolt and a vertical bolt at each frame stub(?) next to the axles/LCAs. If you remove the ones that go upward, then you lose the guide slots between the subframe and the small brackets.


Better pic, but of a newer car:



2 bolts for each side #11, and the small tab #4/5 is bolted to the body with one of the bolts on each side (vertical bolts). Remove the horizontal bolts holding the subframe to these tabs, not the vertical bolts that hold these tabs to the body.


Make better sense now?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

OOOOK that makes much better sense. I'm not totally sure what you mean by the shaft / U-joint. Didn't think this was an issue or that I had to mess with the rack to remove the subframe on a 7th gen.

ezone

Ignore what I said about the rack.

Sorry, I was thinking of the 8th gens since that is about all I see now...Or Accords...newer vans, etc.. all keep the rack attached to the subframe.. not a 7th gen. I'm an idiot.
You gotta remember, I see all sorts of stuff daily and they become a blur at my age. I almost have to have done it in the last 24 hours or see it in front of me to remember how it goes.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha don't worry ezone. I know you know your stuff and it's real hard to do this stuff over the internet. I mentioned 7th gen in my post because I knew you'd know right away. Really appreciate the help! I can tackle this job now with the new instilled confidence youve given me haha

ezone

Told you you should check with mikey1 about his shop manual.
Hell, you ought to make sure your subframe actually has the ears I was thinking of. I could have lied.

I should have just stopped at the first reply.
-----------------------
This morning I noticed a center brake light out on an 8th gen coupe.
Didn't remember that it is LEDs on a coupe instead of a normal light bulb until I went to actually try to replace the bulb....... Duh.
But nobody else remembered it either.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha it does have the ears. However, my vertical bolts for the ears I believe are non existant. I also have a shop manual, and it's what set me off about the alignment in the first place. It says to mark the center of the bolts to the subframe. I imagine the dirt on the subframe alone will do that for me though.

I do stuff like that all the time, not just with my car but with regular life lol. Damn light bulbs.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

lol, ezone!
very rare to see yer mixing stuff
cheers!

ezone

Had a camera at work today. Didn't think about taking pics until after work when this was all already apart.

This frame setup is what I visualized in my head while I was trying to make an intelligent sounding reply earlier. Obviously I was thinking of the wrong setup.


Here's the subframe from this mornings' project, 07 Civic cracked block job. Rack is still attached to the subframe.

You can see that I only backed the two horizontal bolts out of the ears a few turns, far enough to let the frame come loose from the other brackets. Those will slide back up into the slots of those brackets and guide the frame back "close enough" to the original location.




Woo, holy cow that's a big pic. LOL. Don't click it if you have dialup.

What the hell, here's some more pics:


Drivetrain comes out the bottom as a unit. I lower the car over a wheeled dolly (movers dolly), set boards on the dolly to level the drivetrain, remove motor mount bolts to drop the drivetrain onto the dolly. Raise car up, roll drivetrain out.





Green spot at the bottom of the web on #3, this area is hidden by the starter.
Yeah, it has had the baffle cover plate leaking oil for a while.



Removed engine parts laid out in order




I'll try to remember to take a few pics as it goes together.....but I get tunnel vision when I'm working. I need to get it DONE, and taking pics takes up valuable time.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Ahhh excellent Do you do your alignments in shop? You ever have trouble aligning it if you do after you reinstall the subframe?

ezone

Of course!

Most shops only do 2 and 4 wheel alignments, but we can do a 5 wheel alignment......You DID want the steering wheel straight, right?


No. Toe is usually the only thing affected, but it also depends on how and where the suspension comes apart, along with how much "slop" is in the hardware fitments, as to whether or not anything else is affected. Every situation can be different.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

bwaaaahahahahaha! good one!

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

LoL... good one All my suspension components are brand new on the front... So the slop should be minimum (Literally, everything except knuckles and struts lol)

ezone

My use of the word "slop" has to do with clearance between a bolt and its respective hole, not worn suspension components.

Example: If you loosen the 2 bolts that hold a strut and knuckle together, there will be enough "slop" between the bolts and holes to change the camber by about a half degree if you push and pull on the knuckle. (But I do not disassemble them at that point.)

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Ahh my bad.. It's going for an alignment after anyway so it should all be a non issue! Thanks for all the help

ezone

Moar pics.
Trans laying on the movers dolly:





New block in crate






Thought this was neat, you can see the line separating the steel cylinder sleeve and the aluminum block casting.



Block is attached to the trans

ezone

Moar


Head and timing components installed



Intake on, and some other stuff



^^You can see where the trans inline filter lives here.


The drivetrain is assembled and now rolled under the body, lowering the car on to the drivetrain.



All lined up, about 3 inches to go before the mount bolts go through the holes




Dangit, is there a limit to the number of pics I can stuff into one post?

ezone

One more

Bolted to 2 mounts and hanging.




Next is the torque converter bolts, exhaust, shift cable and whatnot, subframe reinstall and hooking up all the little stuff up top.
Kinda like putting feathers back on a plucked chicken.

Monday....

ezone

Last few pics, this has the subframe ears and bolts






And the subframe in place, before removing the jack









And this really was seen today in the parking lot, am I the only one that sees humor here?

ezone

Finally remembered to take a pic of the 7th gen version

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Awesome, so I just take the horizontal bolt out and put it back together that way and I take off the bracket WITH the subframe? Seems easy enough... I'm going to mark the alignment anyway just and try to get it as close as possible. I won't worry greatly about it though if I can't get it perfect. I'm going to be replacing inner tie rods at the same time so an alignment will be absolutely necessary (which it already is lol).

Might replace the bolts with some stainless steel ones too if I can find exact ones.

Thanks ezone. As always your a HUGE help.

ezone

The body colored bracket section with the 3 bolts stays attached to the body. Just pull the single horizontal bolt from each side and that's it. (Well, nearly horizontal anyway...)

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

This might have to wait until next year anyway. But, I will remember this information!