LilRedEX

Is it even necessary? All the reviews I read between the 01 Civic coupe and the RSX say they are the same platform, but with different suspension setups.

Aside from what it takes to do the 5 lug conversion, is there any benefit/possibility to swap over every last suspension bit?

Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: changed title of post for future sticky, due to awesomeness of info below!

MindBomber

I've been meaning to write a fact on suspension cross compatibility for awhile, this thread may turn into that.

Front Lower Control Arms:

A1. 02-04 DC5 Type-S, all years DC5 base, all years and models EP3, all years and models EM2/ES2/1 front lower control arms are cross compatible as the parts are physically identical.

A2. All years DC5 Type-R, and 05-06 DC5 Type-S front lower control arms are cross compatible with each other, but not the years and models listed in A1, as they feature a larger diameter tapered hole to accommodate the larger stud on ball joints used for these years and models. Adapters to sleeve the tapered holes in the control arms listed in A2, narrowing them to the smaller diameter featured in A1 control arms, are available from King Motor Sports for $75.

A3. All years DC5 Type-R control arms are forged aluminium; they offer greater strength, 6 pounds in weight savings and caster gains due to a 10mm increase in width. They can be installed on all the cars listed in both A1 and A2 if King Motor Sports adapters or knuckles and ball joints from an A2 car are used, however this will hyper extend the axles and therefore it's recommended to use Type-R axles (em2/es2/1 would need to be k-swapped). Important to note, when using aluminium control arms you will also need to run a Type-R sway bar or one designed specifically for one, due to the 10mm increase in width.

A4. The compliance bushings in all the cars in both A1 and A2 are the identical diameter and therefore cross compatible. It's been suggested that the compliance bushings found in DC5s are stiffer than EP3s, EM2/ES2/1 since it's a factory performance car, however I've seen no definitive measurement of the stiffness and they are prone to failure like EP3s, EM2/ES2/1.

A5. Front lower control arm and bushing removal DIY available here:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ushing-install

Front Knuckles:

B1. 02-04 DC5 base and Type-S, all years and models EP3, all years EM2/ES2/1 use the same axle splines and therefore are cross compatible with little or no modification. The knuckles in 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 feature two 14mm holes for the crash bolts, all other years and models in B1 feature two 16mm holes for the crash bolts. All years DC5 base and 04-05 years EP3 use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern, 02-03 EP3 and all years EM2/ES2/1 are 4x100 bolt pattern.

B2. 02-04 DC5 Type-S knuckles are cross compatible, they can also be used with EP3s or k-swapped EM2/ES2/1 using DC5 Type-S or DC5 Type-R axles. They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

B3. 05-06 DC5 Type-S are cross compatible, they could be used on the cars listed in B2 with additional parts (see A2), they could also be used on the cars listed in B1 with correct axles and additional parts (See B2 and A2). They use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

B4. All years DC5 Type-R are cross compatible, they feature 15mm longer hubs to accommodate larger brembo brakes and wider lower control arms, as well as a different design of hole for ITR ball joints, they use a 5x114.3 bolt pattern.

Front Macpherson Struts:

C1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible. The 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 utilizes 14mm crash bolts, while the 03-05 EM2/ES2/1 and all years EP3 utilize 16mm; to use struts with 16mm crash bolts on an 01-02 EM2/ES2/1 you can either drill out the knuckles with a 5/8 drill bit or order tapered reducing washers from k-sport. The arms feature a 12mm tapered hole for tie rod end studs.

C2. All years and models DC5 use 16mm crash bolts. They feature a larger diameter tapered hole on the arm than the struts listed in C1 to accommodate larger studs on tie rod end, 13mm. They can be used on the cars listed in C1 provided DC5 tie rod ends are also used.

C3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base front macpherson struts on your car, will that improve performance?
The short answer is yes, the long answer would be that it's difficult to say exactly how much of a performance increase there would be and whether it would be noticeable. The DC5 Type-S and base are heavier and designed from the factory as performance cars, so the valving in the struts should be more aggressive as a result. Comparison of shock dynos of a stock DC5 strut and a stock strut from a C1 car would provide allow for a definitive answer, if someone can provide the graphs.

C4. A-Spec.
I'll come back to this later...

Rear Shocks:

D1. All years and models EP3, EM2/ES2/1 are cross compatible.

D2. All years and models DC5 have a slightly wider bushings on the bottom mount, in order to use these on the cars listed in D1, the bushings needs to be shaven down by a few millimeters.

D3. If you put DC5 Type-S or base rear shocks on your car, will that improve performance?
See C3.

D4. A-spec, see C4.

Front Springs:

E1. 2002-2004 base DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E2, E3 and E4. They are rated at 279lbs.

E2. 2002-2004 Type-S DC5 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E3 and E4.

E3. All years and models EP3 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E4. They are rated at 248lbs.

E4. All years and models EM2/ES2/1 front springs are cross compatible with the springs listed in E1, E2 and E3.

E5. All models 2005-2006 DC5 front springs are cross compatible only with E7 springs, as they are reverse wound.

E6. 01-04 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible with E1, E2, E3 and E4 springs. They use 3.7k rates and are progressive.

E7. 05-06 DC5 Type-R front springs are cross compatible only with E5 springs, as they are reverse wound. They use 4.6k rates and are progressive.

E8. Aftermarket lowering springs rates for DC5s.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...ml#post4572596

Rear Springs:
Stock EP3: Spring Rate: (248 Front/440 Rear)
Stock RSX: Spring Rate: (279 Front/458 Rear)



DC5-R rates
01-04
F 3.7k R 7.4k

05-06
F 4.6k R 8.5k
More coming.. in progress
F 3.7k R 7.4k

LilRedEX

Fantastic!! Please do!

MindBomber

I'm going to try and cover absolutely everything, right down to axles, so it might take a week or so to get everything written down. This should be the best, most definitive faq ever written on rsx, ep3 and 7th gen suspension compatibility though.

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Great Info!

LilRedEX

Mind = Bombed!

BassMasta808

Hope this thread isn't dead. I have TONS of questions. Ok, so my '05 EM2:

1. Will I need rear trailing arms for a knuckle/hub swap? Hopefully not because I recently did bushings. I have rear drums currently.

2. If I do need trailing arms, my logic is to swap front LCA's also and go with DC5R stuff. What will I need for my "05 EM? Any good links for parts searching? (guess I'll have to do bushings again also )

3. I don't want RSX brakes, instead a Brembo GT kit front and rear. If I do not need trailing arms, what would I need to convert my rears to discs, less the calipers and rotors from the DC5R?

4. Can a lug swap and rear disc conversion be done without replacing my front & rear LCA's and trailing arms? If so, what parts will I need (guess I asked this twice lol) and are there any specific year restrictions for the donor (02-04, etc.)

Thank you guru's!

BassMasta808

bump for some help

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

There are a few threads on this topic, stickied even (Check 'em out - much more information https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...elled-out.html). I'll give you a few quick answers, off the top of my head since the DC5R is a little different.

1) No. If you swap the rear trailing arms, you will need to swap out your new Function7 LCAs. Different bolt patterns.

2) It's been a while... I beleive, with the DC5R Front Control Arms, you'll need Front Sway, front knuckles (because the balljoint cone taper is different). I used to think balljoints only differed at the cone. But I've recently learned that was incorrect.

3) Does Brembo even make a rear kit? You may be able to adapt a caliper to fit, but you'll have to fab a mount and parking brake cables.

4) Yes. There's a few threads on this too. Here are two.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...1-01-05-a.html

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...fications.html

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm... I'm a tad bit confused. Will the DC5 Type R front knuckle fit my D17 EM2? It's a tad bit confusing there. Or maybe I'm too tired.

Alright I got it. It will if you press the hub+bearing in from an EP3.

rooster em2

Sway Bars -- Just a note to help those looking

I ended up using the 05-06 dc5 sway bar on my em2. It really helped reduce body roll, much more than the strut bars. Also you will want to use the em2 end links, the DC5 ones don't fit. It was a pretty easy install, the only trick is getting the end links off. This is probly the best bang for the buck suspension mod you can do. I think it was around $115 with shipping. I looked for a used 05-06 rear dc5 sway bar on ebay but they are quite scarce.

2002-2004 rsx type-s stock front sway bar size is 23mm
2005-2006 rsx type-s stock front sway bar size is 26.5mm
2002-2004 rsx type-s stock rear sway bar size is 19mm
2005-2006 rsx type-s stock rear sway bar size is 21mm

05-06 Rsx type s part list 21mm rear sway bar

52300-S6M-A61 - bar
52306-S6M-A62 - bushing (2)
52309-S6M-000 - bracket (2)


Purchased at http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...s=&view=normal

MindBomber

Great post! +rep

I'm going to put some more work into this thread.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

The rsx type "R" front knuckles don't work for the EM2 5 lug conversion. The hubs are 15mms longer to allow for a Brembo big brake kit and the axle does not spline with the larger diameter hub. The knuckle being longer means the control arm does not line up properly with the knuckle, and also the RSX type R ball joint is longer so the civic lower control arm will not work. You can get the RSX type R aluminum control arm but that does not fix the problem with the axle.

Just in case someone is doing the conversion, a tad bit of info.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

So to swap a RSX-S rear sway bar into an EM2, all we need is the parts you listed and to reuse the EM2s end bar links? Sounds pretty simple!

rooster em2

That is correct.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Depending on how cheap you can get an RSX sway bar it might be better to get the 22mm Progress sway bar. It looks more badass too Generally costs 170+ shipping though. I'm sure there are performance gains too though.

rooster em2

I believe the progress bar is a 22mm solid bar and the 05-06 DC5 is a 21mm sold bar so probly not a noticeable difference for most but it does look way cooler.

I tend to go with the more cost effective upgrades for my civic and spend the bigger bucks on my s2000.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Yea I also doubt youd notice it. I love the way the progress bar looks and I don't have an s2000 to worry about hahaha

MindBomber

If you can find the 05-06 sway bar used, the savings over the progress swaybar becomes significant.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

I'm able to get an '06 rear sway with brackets and bushings for $75, is that a good deal?

And another quick question, might the DC5 sway actually be a bit too strong for the EM2, causing a drastic loss of suspension independence? Or is it like the magically perfect part that the EM2 should've had all along?
(considering this is 99% daily driver use)

MindBomber

It's average.

Brand new it would come out to around $100 without shipping.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone know if the rear type R calipers are the same as the type "S" calipers. In other words can I use the "Red" type R calipers on a type "S" knuckle and vice versa? This brings me to another question, is the Type "R" rear knuckle the same as the type "S"?

(same question, just worded differently.)

jsphwallace

So sorry if this is a dumb question guys but i've seen mixed things on here, if i upgrade my em2 rear sway bar to the 21mm rsx type-s would i need to get a subframe brace for my car? my car is just a dd but just wanna get some feedback i know it's probably better but could i do the swap and be fine?

pwnsauce

yes it does

MindBomber

Lots of people have done it without installing a subframe brace and had no problems, but I can guarantee it will be completely safe since.

rooster em2

I think it would depend on what mods you have done and what you are using the car for.

If you have really stiff coil overs, sticky rubber (race), and pulling big g's on the track or autocross I could see where you might develop some problems.

If this is just a street car with moderately stiff suspension and dot rubber you shouldn't have any issues, but, this is just my opinion and I am not a suspension nerd.

pwnsauce

wow. i completely forgot about the subframe brace. i was gonna order it a while back and forgot. oh well ill have to take a look at mine tomorrow and see if its destroyed or not

jsphwallace

let us know how it looks i'm interested in knowing how well they hold up without one

MindBomber

Very important to note, pwnsauce has a sixth generation civic.

The subframe design on sixth generation civics is much weaker than the seventh generation.

jsphwallace

Dang that's what i get for not paying attention,anyways i think i'm going swap out the sway bar without the brace and just check on it every couple months,just to see how it holds up