DUDEitsMATTx

I already have a full megan racing coil over suspension. Im gunna be getting the megan racing rear camber kit for my car and I also wanna get a rear sway bar, rear lower tie bar. I just want 2 know what else would be worth the $ for suspension parts here is the site im getting everything from http://www.robearracing.com/cat_suspension20.cfm also what about the control arms, and the front under X brace, what do they do are they worth it? And what brands should i buy for the rear sway bar and tir bar? thx alot!!

Anyone????

Zzyzx

um, what are you setting the car up for? and how is it handling now?

(throwing parts at a car with no clear idea as to how it handles now, or what your trying to tune is just throwing money down the drain...)

DUDEitsMATTx

well right now its good enought 4 just drivein around. but in the next 2 months or so im gunna start going to auto x with some friends and im also gunna be planin 2 have the car turbo. so i was just readn that the rear sway bar makes the back stiffer and no body roll.. just lookin to help when i go2 the track for turns..

Zzyzx

Ok, couple of things then...

First off, a good compitition setup is going to be very different then a street setup. Alot of the tuning is going to be contrary to what "street" tuners are going to tell you. so Unlearn what you think you've learned. (Such as body roll... Learn to ignore it, as it is a VERY poor indication as to how well or poorly a car handles.)
Case in point: (Yes the second one is me)

and


Secondly, as some one who's used their car for compititon for the last four years, and started out with a "modified car" (I had Eibach springs)... I can say with some certinty.... Your MUCH better off going to a few events with the car as stock as possible, before you start modding any thing. This will make you a better driver in the long run, as much like sticky tires, suspension modifications can mask Bad driving... makeing you believe you are better then you really are. Where as a stock or mostly stock car will blatently punish you for bad driving, forcing you to drive perfectly if you want to be fast. (can you see how that may be of benifit?) Basically what I'm saying here is that you have much more time to gain Initially by simply learning how to drive better then you do from modifying the car... Once you've learned to get 10/10ths out of it now, then you can start to take proper advantage of tuning other parts (besides the driver)

Other then that... Avoid 99% of the pre-built "coilovers" on the market, as most are too stiff and/or have poor damper valving (Ask Boilermaker what spring rates He's running and you'll get the idea). and dont worry too much about over braceing the chassis, as many classes/forms of racing dont allow for those parts any way. (they are more a "street tuner" thing any way)

as far as your turbo... I've said it before, Your suspension doesnt care how much HP your engine makes. I.e. a well tuned suspension will work good with any excess or lack of Horsepower.

DUDEitsMATTx

ok i see what ur sayin.. thx that helped. but u think i should still get a camber kit right so my tires are all like / \?

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

What I have and what I want to be running are 2 different things.... and they're very different. However the ubercrappy roads prohibit me from doing what I want... but maybe next year I'll do it anyways.... or buy a 2nd set just for the track.

TransformedBG

iTrader: (6)

No offence Dued.. But Boiler, didnt we have this conversation already?

Zzyzx

you could, but its really not nessisary for your first few events. I found that my first year of autocross was spent simply re-learning how to drive. I really didnt start "tuning" the chassis untill my second year.


but back to your question on parts...

For tuning, its best done one part at a time. (or "group"). And it is absolutly essential that the driver be as consistant as possible... other wise its very hard to determin if a particular handling problme is being caused by the cars setup.. or by the driver. (another reason to hold off "tuning" untill you have some good driving experiance) Also, try your best to identify when and where the car is understeering/oversteering, as that will help you identify what parts may need tweaking.

But, if you really want to tweak something, start with the springs + dampers. spend some time tuning and tweaking with that. For brands, Konis + Ground controls are what I typically recomend to people interested in compitition, but buy what ever your comfortable with. As long as its got a good damper thats adjustible your ok. (spring rates can allways change). Dont get overly excited about stiffining up the car, as you really want to run as soft of a spring as you can get away with while still maintaing decent chassis roll.

Once you get a feel for the car (it will handle and react Vastly different) then you can start itentifying what may need to be tweaked next.

That is the essential problem between a good street setup and a good track setup...

DUDEitsMATTx

well the main reason why i want 2 get my camber kit is because my rear tires camber and i want to lower it a little more but then they get even worse and i will have bad tire wear. so thats why i want a camber kit

Zzyzx

Thats fine, I'm allways a fan of adjustibility.

and you can do a lot with the car by just tweaking the alignment a bit. even stock.

DUDEitsMATTx

Yeah.. when u lower ur car and the rear cambers does that make ur handlin better?

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

You need to learn about camber settings. i am no expert, so I will let spencer talk about it. Lower isn't necessarily better and neither is more camber.

Generally, you want more camber in the front than the rear, but we have more camber gain in the rear when we lower, which is why camber plates and cam bolts are helpful. However, the limiting factor is our tie rods.

Zzyzx

Lowering the car can help, as it lowers the cars center of gravity thus reducing the amount of weight transfered durnning a given turn... but only to a point. if you lower the car too much you can actualy increase the amount of weight transfered (bad) and destort the cars camber curve (how much camber the suspension gains or looses as it compresses/extends) the point where the car simply handles poorly.

How low is too low.... Well With out modifying the suspensions pickup points, Mugen apparently thinks that 1.5" is about as low as you can go with out screwing up the cars suspenion geometry. So I would stick to about that low of a drop, erroring on the high side.. (less of a drop)

as far as alignment... Camber is just one minor adjustment as far as your cars handling is concerned. Other less known but no less important adjustments are Caster and Toe. Best article I've ever found regarding alignments and how they influence handling

For a street going civic... I'd say run between -1 and -1.5 deg camber on the nose, with about 1/32nd toe out (the car will naturally toe in under acceleration stabilizing the car, and slightly toe out under brakeing improving turn in responce) For the rear, Run about -1 to -.75 deg camber and probably 1/32nd to 1/16th toe in on the rear. (to help stablize the car a bit "less twitchy" and to counter act the tendency for the rear to toe out, which can make the car a bit unstable under brakeing.)

have fun