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Yeah, I know the general idea everyone throws out about RSX springs on the 01-05 Civic (doesn't work). However...has anyone truly tried this or know of anyone? I can repeat what others say as well, but 1st or 2nd hand knowledge is much better.

Let's take Tein S-Techs for example. What about putting this combo on a 01-05 Sedan:

Front: 01-05 Civic Tein S-Tech.
Rear: 02-04 RSX Tein S-tech.

I know Tein has a serious @ss-sag problem wih their Civic kit on a Sedan. My H&R's are the same damn way. Would what I proposed above work correctly, or would the rear sit too high?

And Honestly, the springrate in the rear would be freakin awesome. ~160/lb front, and ~500/lb rear. Talk about good rotation for autox, although the front is still on the soft side...

If no one knows this, I have a set of RSX A-spec springs that I might try on the rear of the Sedan. The rears are pretty easy to change out so I'll take that gamble.

 
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You wanna do 160/500? Are you friggin nuts?
how would you know the rate anyways? S-techs are progressive

 
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First off, 160/500 is just dumb, especially on stock dampers that can't handle 500.
Second, progressive springs don't have rates
Third, you can easily get linear springs for the civic and not have to do deal with ones for the RSX.

I think you need to think things out before you start slapping **** on your car and making it very dangerous to drive.

 
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See...I knew I'd get replies like this.

1) Tein lists their rates on their webpage. Yes Virginia...Progressive springs do indeed have rates! You can't deny physics. Many cars come with a mix of progressive and linear--off the showroom! The Type R out in my garage came this way brand new with progressive on one end and linear on the other.


2) 160/500 is not 'friggin nuts'. You know the motion ratios on this car. Do the math and you'll see that it is no different that a rear-biased 95 Integra setup.

I am 'rethinking' my decisions. I am tired of oem's giving us sagging springs. I'm sorry if folks feel the need to spend $900 on crappy coilovers (Megan, lower Teins, etc) or live with the GC clunking, but there are other solutions out there.

Who said I am on stock shocks anyhow?

I asked for people to answer my question, not make me question my theorys. Come on people--there is life outside of the box.

 
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edit: dp.

 
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Both Rob and I are aware that progressive springs have rates (even though he said no, I understand what he means as it doesn;'t have a locked in rate, he just sometimes sucks with words), the problem with a posted measurement is that its an INSTANT or an average rate. When the spring is compressed X inches, it reads that rate. Compressed X+more or less it reads something different, and I'm more than aware of whats outside the box, and whats beyond the circle that the box sits in. I've played more than my fair share of games with the car, but I think that kind of rear bias is nuts, considering how snappy I've managed to make the car with a 150 lb rear bias and a good alignment.
And what is this GC clunking you speak of? Do I just have impecable luck with parts? Or am I so damn good at installing things that I don't get the funny noises everyone else speaks of. I've never heard my GCs make a peep.
Be my guest and try it, but I hope you live somewhere without rain and snow, and make sure that RSX springs are indentical in length... I don't know the answer to that for sure. The other thing that you'll find out is that 160 isn't enough to keep the car from bottoming out if you push hard. Sooner or later, you're gonna find the bumpstops mid corner and figure it out, but I'll just tell you that its known to happen, especially when you lower the car.

 
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So how do you feel about a 550/4000 springrate bias? After all, that's what the HART cars run on their autox RSX. The RR cars use a little more front, but the rear remains at 4000lbs.

While you may have had success with wacky alignment settings and a 150lb f/r bias, you must have figured out something that the Honda engineers missed, because there is no way that small amount of bias will work if you want the car to handle properly at all speeds.

I don't want to sling mud, but I figured this thread would turn into this.

The progressive rate argument cracks me up. Yeah, for a pure track car you really don't want progressive rates, but for a street car they can be made to work perfectly fine. As I said, oems do this straight from the factory. Who put this into the forum's head, anyways?

 
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Well what are you looking to do here? You're talking crazy rates like you want to build a quasi track car.
You're trying to base this compared to the tracked RSXs, some of which also are running relocated rear control arms to try and offset some of the geometry problems, not to mention R compound tires and crazy camber.
No one ever argued with you that you couldn't combine progressives with linears, but the fact that you're touting the progressive rate as a fixed, locked thing isn't correct. If you've got something with a 160 section, and a 380 section when it compresses hard, then you're talking about something completely different than something that rides at 160 with a 220 when compressed.

If you think it'll work, then just do it. If it doesn't work, you're out 150 bucks or whatever, you sell the springs to someone with an RSX, you lost an afternoon of install time. Pay the price of admission. Seems to me its the easiest solution to the question. Blow the money, do your own R&D. Thats usually what I end up doing, and when you figure it out then everyone loves you.

 
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So you really think 160/500 are crazy rates? As I asked earlier...you do know the motion ratios of the car, correct? Front is roughly 1:1 and rear is roughly .55:1, giving a wheel rate of ~160/260. Does that seem so 'crazy'?

This is plenty controllable on the street if you have half a brain, contrary to popular belief it seems.

Just forget about the progressive rate discussion. No matter how you want to look at it, the point is that it works for street cars so that's why OEMs use it. The progressive rates on the DC2R are measured as ~146-250. All I was doing was quoting the higher number. Don't look anymore into it than that. It's a semantics discussion at this point.

I already have a set of RSX A-spec springs. Before I took the time to give it a try (on the rear), I wanted to see if anyone had done it. Springrates and handling aside, my main concern was ride height. The sag on my H&R springs right now is pretty bad in the rear.

I was just suggesting (trying to find) other alternatives to sedan owners so they don't have to spend a grip on coilovers to get a car that sits level. I have 2 other cars that are track/autox cars. The sedan is a daily driver and I refuse to spend over $1000 for good coilovers. Shocks/springs are plenty for my need.

 
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I think its a little excessive, but thats me, I've got it rigged up one way, you rig it up with other parts i'm sure it'll do stuff differently. Unfortunately the streets around here cause people to not go nuts with spring rates on cars that have to drive on the street. At 375/525 I already take more than enough of a beating that I couldn't go any higher without driving around with a mouthguard. I take my car out on the track and have more than handful sometimes keeping it happy on occasion. If you have stock civic sedan springs, and the A-spec springs, just measure them. If you know the rates or at least can speculate something, 40% of the weight sits in the back of the sedan. You can get some sort of rough guess of how far its gonna settle on the springs. Beyond that, you probably can swap the rear springs on the car in 45 minutes a side, just give it a whirl, see what happens.
But honestly though, its only a half solution to the problem. You'll end up with sedan people buying 2 sets of springs, using half of each and then tossing the other 2 away since no one's going to pick up fronts that are stiffer than the rears.
Just curious, although I know this probably isn't going to do anything... have you called Tein or Eibach or someone and talked to someone with 1/2 a brain? I know its hard to do on these tech lines, but its worth a shot. someone there had to have torn apart the cars, they may know the lengths of both springs, probably some useful information.

 
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Ride quality has a lot to do with shock valving, as I'm sure you know.

I have spoken to the spring manufactures. This is what they say:

H&R: Our springs are 20-30% stiffer than stock. They won't tell you what stock rates are or what their rates are. They claim their springs are tested and don't sag on the 7thgen cars.

Eibach: The 7th gen is raked rearward form the factory. Our springs lower evenly and keep that rake (even though it looks like @ss).

Tein: Tough to get someone that speaks clean english. But at least they have the ***** to post their springrates. They are the most willing to work with you, however.

Unfortunately measuring oem springs to gauge lowering specs compared to aftermarket springs is just as good as licking them to figure out the springrate. You won't really know until you get them on the car.

What it boils down to is that no one really gives a crap about the 7th gen cars to design a quality lowering spring.

 
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I would be more worried about the low rate on the nose rather then the High rate on the rear... I allready have Eibach sportlines and I bottom out the front end in long sweeping turns (when I have my Race tires on)... Looking to pick up a set of Ground controls soon.

 
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Thats about what I gathered from coilover shopping too. No one cares what you want to do. They back their R&D and won't tell you anything about how they came up with what they got. Theres a guy at GC who knew what he was doing, kinda helped me put it where its at now, they have a tremendous fear of bottoming out though with low rates on the front of the car. If you want to order custom rates, they won't warranty below 375. I'm not saying that you safely couldn't, but thats what they tested and claim. Beyond that, I'm not sure where to go with it. I don't doubt that these rates come out with the intent of keeping understeer in the car.
Gotta love the game, just gotta play until you get what you want. The suspension in this car just sucks, so the only real thing you can do is find a way to balance it out how you want it. If you come up with a new way to pull something off... more power to ya, and if it works, then there you go. No one's gonna make the high end stuff for this car because it doesn't really share anything with the right dimensions, and spoon isn't gonna waste the time on it.

 
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I quoted the 160lb front because only Tein posted up their rates. I have no idea what my H&Rs are in terms of rate. The RSX a-spec I can guess at and say about 450ish rear.

I would do GC's or custom-valved Teins if I wanted the car to be a racecar. Right now I just want something that handles ok, looks good and has enough ground clearance to not bottom out. Honestly, lowering springs on better shocks should solve this problem as it has with the last 3 generations of Civics.

I know the suspension is poor on these cars, but it's not that difficult to design a quality lowering spring. So, if I can find a hybrid lowering spring setup, that would be great. Then we can all complain to that manufacturer and see if we can get a special combo for the sedans (or even coupes).

 
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You have HRs on a sedan? It specifically says on their site that those springs are not meant for a sedan. But whatever, it's your car.

All the spring manufactuers don't have a static spring rate. I have called them numerous times for the FAQ and they always says 20-35% stiffer than stock. That is all. They can't tell you a rate because the more you compress it, the technically increases.

No one will build a hybrid lowering spring set up because it isn't profitable. You piece the parts together and go from there. You can get GCs with Konis and add linear springs that fit the collars or get full coils and change out the spring rates. if you want good adjustability, see if you can get a set of KW V3 shocks and just by hypercoils for the rates you want.

And I know I was rude, and I apologize. But please give more information when you post something like that. Especially if you knew that you were going to get wise cracks back at you. if you want information post why you want to do things and how much you have thought it out. Again, I apologize for being rude.

 
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H&R says the springs would not work on a 4-dr EX. Tire rack called H&R and H&R stated that they would be fine on the other sedans (I have a LX). I did not buy them unfortunately...they were a gift to me and when I called tirerack about it this is what i was told and I would not get a refund. I assumed they list the EX as it's 60 lbs heavier than the other sedans.

Please don't assume everyone is a noob just because they don't have 20 million posts.

GC's, IMO, still suck for a daily driven car. And GCs just don't work on the front honda strut as well as they did the old double-wishbone setup.

 
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You're right about the HR springs...sorry.

The whole suspension sucks compared to older suspensions. That is why they revised it in the new gen.

I try to assume that anyone is a noob even if they have 1 post. To me, your post seemed noobish and, like i said, clarification next time would have been helpful. Again, I am sorry.

What do you want out of the car and what are your possible options besides the RSX springs...??

 
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Well, there was no sence in writing out a 5 paragraph initial post. Folks usually don't read the detail, especially on a forum that isn't as detail oriented as someplace like honda-tech (no offense).

Believe me, I have worked with the 'new' suspension since back in 02 when I bought an EP3 (sold that POS). And, I currently have an RSX-S that has been through several suspension iterations. The Civic is my 38mpg commutter. Hence, linear rate GCs are not an option at this point in time, unless that's the only way I can make the rear end not sag.

I was also thinking that I might be able to put an RSX Neuspeed Race spring on the back, but there was mention in another thread that the race spring would make the rear sag. So, I got to thinking that a mild drop RSX spring might be perfect back there, plus it would be a more favorable springrate (higher).

I just find it hard to believe that the rear of a Civic sedan is heavier than the rear of an RSX, but who knows.

 
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You don't have to tell us that this site isn't technical as others.

Do you have aftermarket shocks? I still would be afraid that the rear would sag. So, the option is to find a milder drop for the rear springs than the front springs. Say a 1.7 drop front and a 1.4 rear. That way it should even out a little more. hmm... What about Tanabe?

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...highlight=rate

Coils would be easier to get the height right and you won't have to play the guessing game on ride heights, but if you don't want linear springs then don't get them.

 
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Today was actually a nice day so I put the RSX A-spec springs on the rear of the sedan.

Gap in the rear went from a tight 1 finger gap to about a 3 finger gap. So, too low to a little too high. A-spec springs are said to lower the RSX about 1".

My guess is that a set of 2.0" rear lowering springs for an RSX would be about spot-on for the sedan.

So, now the search starts for a set of used springs to experiment with. If anyone knows of someone looking to get rid of a set, let me know and I'll try it.

 
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One option I've been toying with is a coil-over on the rear shocks only (koni makes some sleeves that fit their shocks and you can buy just a pair of them, maybe other cheap c/o sleeves would work also) so you can pick whatever rear spring rate you want and adjust the rear ride height/corner balance. That way you can keep your stock-ish front strut/spring/bearing setup. Just a thought-

 
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Yes, I have thought about this, but doesn't the GC kit take 5" 2.5" ID springs? I would buy a cheap set of coilovers off of ebay and use those in the rear, but all of my spare springs are 7" springs and I refuse to use no-name springs. If I knew those would work with my Eibach 7", I would give it a try. I don't think the rear suspension with sleeved coilovers makes noises.

Still have the binding issue, but springs won't cure that. Thanks Honda!

 
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GC will take any 2.5" spring you put on it. I found the 5" to be too short, I'm using 6" ones now, and there's enough travel in the collar that you probably could use a 7 and not change the height of my car. Run it a little higher and you can probably use a 7 for sure.

 
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tkm, if you've got a 7" 350lb spring around, it'll end up almost exactly the same installed length as Boiler's 6" 525lb. And should match 160ish in the front nicely. I say DO IT. And tell us how it goes!

 
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What all comes with the GC kit (for the rear of the car)? Obviously the sleeves and the perch, but what about different inserts for the top or o-rings for eliminating sleeve movement?

If only those items, I have everything else already on hand. All I would need to buy are sleeves/perches.

 
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Its the sleeve, the perch ring and there's a molded poly ring with a flange to hold the spring in place that goes into the upper hat in place of the dust boot. I'm sure GC could send you the upper mounts. Then of course the spring.

 
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Kojima on the Sentra boards has a cool replacement for the o-rings: duct tape. He just rolls it on evenly until the sleeve is a snug fit and then covers the tape with silicone and slides the sleeve over the mess. Apparently it eliminates any movement and noise.

 
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Rubber O-Rings do the job properly and don't have the 'ghettoness' of duct tape. Yikes.

Anyhow, I put some H&R rear springs for an EP3 on the rear of the sedan. Think my problem has been solved. The car seems to be level front and rear, which is all I really wanted.

I compared the 2 sets of H&R springs, and for the life of me I could barely tell a difference, if any. But, the proof is that the rear end seems to sit up about .75" higher on the ep3 springs.

So, if any sedan owners want H&Rs and an equal drop, see if you can talk H&R into a Em2/Ep3 combo.