jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I am under the impression that a rear tie/sway bar from an rsx s will sit an ex with no modification, just bolt right up. So would aftermarket sway bars made for rsx fit our exs. I was looking for one around 26-8mm, but i am having a hard time finding one, also i drive a sedan.

Zzyzx

Handling wise, what are your plans for the car? Why do you think you need a 25mm rear bar, and Tie bars are different then sway bars (AKA anti-roll bars AKA roll bars).

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I know, i was looking for a combo. I hate understeer, the only way to correct somewhat is to let off gas. I thought that if i get a big enough one the rear would start slipping first and it would be faster to correct that with some steering correction vs letting off gas. Yeah 27-28 might be too big, but i think 25 would be good. I was thinking if 27-28 is rediculous i could get a bigger one upfront and then it would just be stronger overaul anyway, but with less oversteer. I want a car that handles like a sports car. I realize in the rain or snow it would be pretty crazy driving.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

What about type s fitting, i am pretty sure it will with coupe, what about sedan?

fuledya

convert to RWD

personally, just stick with the 19mm RSX stock bar, anything over that you'll probably need beafer end links as well.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I am looking at comptech 22 mm rear sway/tie bar combo, you think i would need knew endlinks with that?

Zzyzx

are you sure you arn't running in to Throttle induced understeer? other wise, I'd recoemd down sizing the front bar before going excessivly large on the rear one. (Anti-roll bars actually reduce the overall amount of grip a car makes... so there is very much a thing as too big).

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

^endlinks should be fine should'nt they
^i got mixed up yeah probably do not want 27-8mm, lol.

What exactly do you mean by throttle enduced, i mean taking a turn too fast, and having to fix it.

Would i need new endlinks for comtech 22mm sway/tie bar combo. I am not getting it for awhile,guess i will just have to learn some more about autocross, more terminology.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

the comptech combo is like $350! Get the new progress 24mm rsx bar and it comes with endlinks, but you will have to put them together. You can get it for $200 and it is adjustable.

Zzyzx

Have you Identified when and where the car is understeering, and what you are doing durnning it? Corner entry? mid corner? corner exit?

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I thought progressive was of low quaility, but i guess it is just a bar and bushings.
How hard is the install, what do i have to put together???
Do you mean the endlinks and/or tiebar??? Not sure what you mean by put together???
I am looking at it on dezods sight, looks like a good buy. I would paint it though, that blue is just awful LOL.

Also have another question, sorry for all the q's by the way.
The two postion adjustable sway bar, what does that mean?

Mid corner to exit corner, i guess more mid corner, and i let off gas when this happens, cause steering does nothing, i guess i steer in more after though.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

If means you can adjust the preload on the bar, changing its stiffness. If you don't know what it does, then you damn sure don't need it.
Honestly I don't know why you think you need a 25+mm bar. It does just fine with a 19 or 22, there's not much reason to go bigger than that unless you've got the rest of your suspension so dead nuts on that you can't fix it any other way. its a lot of stress on the rear end, and very unforgiving in a panic move. it doesn't matter if you lose the rear end on the track, if you lose it on the highway, its a pileup.l
You can adjust your alignment to dial out under/oversteer pretty easily.
You can also drive with the brakes.

It seems to me as if you're trying to make up for less than superb driving by throwing more money at the car. It tends to do nothing in the way of helping out. You just keep increasing the limit of the car, without increasing your own skill limit.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

First off, progress makes good stuff. They may not be comptech, but that doesn't mean they are ****. You have to put the endlinks together if you get the 24mm bar.

Progress has two bars. A 22mm bar with integrated tie (nonadjustable, no endlinks, ~ $150) and a 24mm bar with integrated tie (adjustable, endlinks, ~$200). Comptech has 3 bars. A 22mm bar with no integrated tie (~$99), a 22mm with an integrated tie bar (nonadjustable, ~$400) and a 22mm bar with an integrated tie (adjuatable, ~$650).

The progress bars come grey now, not teal.

Adjusting the bar means that you can make it stiffer or softer. Ideally, the stiffer it is the more oversteer you will induce and vice versa. The adjusters allow less/more flex in the bar.

I agree with boilermaker. You don't need a 25mm bar unless you are doing some serious racing and the rest of your suspension is up to handle that sized bar. Don't make up for poor driving by throwing parts at your car.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I thought i would try out the 25mm and see if that was too much, then upgrade the front one in accordance, but that would be overkill and have negative effects.
I did not understand that pistioning it differently it would make it more stiffer, did'nt make sense to me, i mean i figured it had to something with itLOL but could not see it.
How do you adjust alignment to do this?
I only have a front sturt bar, and that really does not do that much, little tighter.
I wanted something that would make it looser in the back cause its like the front end just starts plowing as soon as traction gives out. I would like the rear end to go out a little more so i could correct it more with steering, than with brakes or taking foot of gas.,

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

If the rest of your suspension isn't DONE.. I mean nailed down perfect, don't even bother with sway bars. They're for fine tuning. There's also no reason to add more in the front, that adds understeer. You obviously are severely confused about this and I would recommend some reading on the subject both here and the rest of the internet.
And don't ever go overkill and have to go back. Its like going from the kiddie pool to the 10m high dive. Work up to it.
Adding camber adds grip. More negative front camber means the front has more cornering grip. Adding to the back does the same. Ideally, if you have about .5 to .75 degrees more in the front than in the back, you'll dial out some of the understeer. Changing spring rates goes a long way, as does a well tuned set of shocks. If ALL of that doesn't take care of it, deal with the sway bars. On the stock suspension, I wouldn't go any bigger than the 19mm RSX one anyways. Too much vertical flex with no lateral flex is a problem.
You'll find out very quickly that jumping from 13 to 17 or 19 is a pretty good handful. I take the car out on the track with a 22 and know full well I have to be careful about going into hard corners hot on the brakes, and this is with huge camber numbers and a very well setup suspension.

The adjustable bars change their effective stiffness by you moving the ends of the bar around. You can make it tighter, which preloads the bar, and stiffens it up from the start, making its flexing stiffness higher as the bar flexes. You're basically making the bar fight itself straight when its flat on the ground. It becomes harder to bend something the more you try and bend it. Since you already gave it a start, it becomes much harder to bend further.
If you loosen it (make the bar "longer") it is less preloaded and will flex more.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I thought you meant you could adjust understerr/oversteer with out camber kit, not camber but actual alignment LOL.
I wanted so signifigantly cut down on understeer and i thought getting a thick rear sway bar would do it.

I was also going to get tein coil overs one of these days, but i thought those would improve overall handling, and not really cut down on oversteer. I am going to be getting new tires soon so i might as well get camber kit too. I never realized how much camber kits could cut down on oversteer. I know there is a DIY, but would a camber alignment be extra when i get my regular alignment after i get new tires?

If i were to get 24mm bar and with the stock suspension what would happen?
I guess i should get the teins first and then sways, but its all getting pushed back now i think i am going turbo first. I had'nt planned on putting more than 3 hundred dollars into suspension, after x bar. I guess i will get x bar and then turbo.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

$300? You gotta be friggin kidding me. You can't even do a half *** suspension for $300. Done right, a suspension SHOULD cost at least $1000. Probably closer to $1500 or 2000. Camber alignment jobs usually cost more because they have to **** around with it and it moves the toe when they do. So its more of a guess and check thing than just doing toe like they usually do.
You don't want a 24mm bar with the stock suspension. Its impending doom waiting to happen. You swerve on the highway the car dips side to side, you have a huge vertical movement pulling the control arm which tugs the sway bar, but the sway bar won't move with it, so it transfers everything across the car and around you go. You better hope you also cross the median... because you'll be pointing the wrong way if you dont.
Don't do anything that you don't understand the outcome from. You clearly have no clue what happens when you change things on the suspension and you need to learn this before you screw around with it. I know I sound like a ****, but its the honest to goodness truth. I dont want to hear about pileups on I-270 because of someone who had too much money and not a clue what would happen.
And I wouldn't turbocharge a car until you knew how to drive it. More power is yet another way to divert the simple fact that someone can't drive... and I have the video that proves it.
Please, for the love of god, learn something about what you're doing, it works out better in the long run if you address the problem rather than just throwing money at the problem.

dapakione

I was wondering if the rsx - s stock sway bar would fit the 01 civic lx sedan, i already got it dropped, wit tokico struts, and a front strut bar, thought this would be a nice fine piece to tighten up the rear, will it fit?

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

Why would you think i was a bad driver, you do not know me, i may not know any thing about suspension or how to tune one, or exact terminology, but i really never claimed this. You have never taken a turn too fast and had tremedous oversteer, its not like i did it on purpose, but it happens sometimes when you go to the limit.

Did not realize that putting a 24mm sway bar on a stock suspension would make you spin out if you swirved at high speed. That just sounds crazy but i guess i will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

good and bad is a matter of degree, but people who have the desire to become very good drivers... drive the worst handling car possible, and thats a stock one. I don't need to know you to figure this out. You're not looking at the problem the way someone who was a good driver would. They'd blame themselves for the car plowing. One of my favorite quotes is "The Ultimate Driving Machine cannot turn any road-idiot into The Ultimate Driver... But The Ultimate Driver can make any machine into The Ultimate Driving Machine."
A good driver can tear it up in a rented Chevy Impala. You gain nothing by letting the car fix the flaws in your driving. Thats the point I'm trying to make. Adding 50 HP doesn't help you. Throwing R compounds on the car doesn't help you. It may feel like it is because you're going faster, but the car is just making up for what you're unable to do.
I may not be the best driver in the world, but you can probably ask any of the guys who I routinely race with how much better I've gotten. A lot of it was forcing myself to race a slow, stock car sans rims and tires for a year and a half. Fighting the pig goes miles in getting you to drive right and handle the car properly.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Yes a stock rsx-s rear sway bar will fit. 02-04 is 19mm, 05 is 21mm. You will need to install endlinks and drill into the frame because your car didn't come with one stock. There is a DIY that grey did that is very helpful.

jackburton, Boiler may sound like an ***, but everyone thinks they can drive. We don't claim to know how well you can or can't drive, but the only way to really know is try, and I don't mean on the streets, but on legal autox/road courses. Again, throwing a big *** sway bar on squishy stock suspension is not a good idea. If you had good shocks/springs and you had some driving experience with that setup, then I could see changing the rear to 25mm.

BTW zzyzx, boiler, and myself all have taken our cars to at least close to their limits if not to their limits. I don't claim to be the best driver, but I do know how MY car reacts to driving it hard.

The best suspension mod you can do right now is shocks. If you want to wait for coilovers, then save up. Once you have that figured out, then start changing sway bars. Strut bars don't do much on our cars so they won't induce over/understeer. The x brace will cause more understeer, in case you were wondering. It stiffens up the front end, not allowing it to rotate. It might be good if you have a big rear sway but not otherwise. Once I took mine off, I could get my car to rotate a little more.

Think of it this way. The stock suspension is very squishy and soft. If you have a big rear sway bar (25mm+) then when you take a turn fast, the car will want to roll (because of the soft springs). Once the car starts to roll, the sway bar will work its magic, and around you go. Because there is no stiff springs to help the roll bar, you are asking for bad rotation that you can't control.

and $300 for suspension is ****. You can't do crap with $300. That is less than the cost of springs and a camber kit.

Zzyzx

We're not trying to be asses here, we're just trying to get you to understand that its entirly possible that the nut behind the wheel is the cause of your handling issues rather then any thing the car is doing.

any way, you say the car understeers midphase through corner exit, and that you are on the gas at that time... are you trying to accelerate? are you coming too hot in to the corner? do you trail brake? left foot brake? what, other then lifting are you doing to try to counter this understeer? (BTW, steering more while you are understeering will just cause more understeer....)

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I know if you steer while understeering it wont get you know where except further off you mark.
I have only really done that once where i was just going way to fast, and understeered like hell. Definitely was too hot onto corner. I let off gas and kinda threw it into drift, and then when i was corrected somewhat i gave it more gas. I do get the feeling of understeer when corning sometimes when the tires start to slip too much, and i wanted the car a little more balanced so that the rear would slip as well. It just feels to plow like, i hate all that understeer, but i guess adding a sway bar will never make it rwd.
I also thought with less understeer it woud be faster to correct if i make mistake, cause i could correct it with steering. No i do not trail brake cause i am still learning. I still do not understand how i can dive differently to make the car not understeer in a corner, if your close to the limits of traction, our cars understeer. I am not saying i go around always plowing my front end out, or understeer on every turn, but it can happen. Another thing is that i did not realize how sway bars were more of a fine tunning method.
Also with the x bar, i have heard good things about those keeping the front wheels on the ground in hilly areas, and figured that with that i could have a bigger rear sway with one as well cause it stiffens the fron end up.