Rep Power: 294

How can you tell if you are within the right specs? I installed my SPC rear kits today but I don't know if the camber is actually negative or positive. When I look at the wheels from the top, they look perpendicular to the ground, but after all, it may be very hard to tell if you are 1 or 2 degrees off. Other than the dealership, since they charge an arm and a leg, what other places can I take my car so they can set it right?
For those of you that already installed SPCs: Should both oval holes on the rear kits be installed towards the front of the car? I followed Grey's DIY and he mentioned the passenger side but not the driver side. Would it be a problem if the driver side oval hole is installed todwars the back or the front of the car? Hope I didn't confuse you people. Thanks in advance.

Mike.

 
Rep Power: 285

I read in Pop. Mech's one time that you could tape some film roll holders to a 1 foot level and use it...

All I have to do is hit a few switches to change my camber

 
Rep Power: 424

You can if you use a camber gauge and you have a perfectly level surface. But you also need to adjust your toe, which is much harder. Just pay the $60 and get someone to align it... its a hell of a lot easier, especially the first time.

 
Rep Power: 294

Yes Boiler. I noticed my rear right toe was a little out of place as well. It may be an optical illusion for all I know. The whole thing for $60 doesn't sound bad at all. Would an ailgnment include everything from camber specs, toe specs and the rest of the family?
I was trying to think of a way to bring it to spec, but I'd have to be constantly taking off the tire and puting it back on, a real pain in the butt.

 
Rep Power: 285

There's not a way to adjust the rear toe is there?

 
Rep Power: 314

Actually there is a way. IF you know how to do it, you can, but if you don't...like B said...just pay the $ and have someone do it for you. (Easier to blame them if it's wrong, lol)

There's a bolt on the rear lower arm that you adjust. It involves two different sized nuts...'n' some ****.

I can't really remember how to do it, the other guys can explain better. But I know there IS a way...

 
Rep Power: 412

I don't think you can adjust the rear toe without sliding plates underneath the tires. There isn't much adjustment to the rear toe. There is one bolt that can be turned to adust toe, but again, I only saw it done with an air gun. Rear toe can't get that far out of alignment like front toe can.

Alignments can range from $60-100. If you are lowered or want better handling, you probably won't want OEM specs.

 
Rep Power: 294

I just wondered. Is there a correlation between the threads and the degrees?
Like say, 1 thread reresent 1 degree or 0.5 of a degree on the adjustable arm. SPC doesn't have a standard for this, do they?
If that was possible, then we could just measure from the center both of holes at each end of the arm and then simply add/substract the appropiate amount of threads on the adjustable arm to be within specs. But then again, I don't have an absolutely flat surface and/or a camber gauge

 
Rep Power: 412

no, that is why you need a camber gauge. there is no standard on the spc arm.

 
Rep Power: 294

Darn. I called a couple of places around here and they say they'll do alignment, but with the OEM parts on the car. A guy from Tire Kingdom said that once I put "performance stuff" on my car like the SPC Kits, they don't have all the appropiate tools for that kind of job, and that therefore I'd have to take my car to a "performance shop". I guess I'm going to be stuck with the dealer fees then eh? See, this is what I don't get, they say they can align the car, yet they don't know/can not bring the camber within specs? What are my options then? All you guys with SPC Kits, what have you done??

 
Rep Power: 412

ask yvette (spdrcrchk on AIM). You live in Miami. There has to be a performance car shop somewhere that will do it. Any shop should be able to do it. The SPC kit is exactly like the OEM kit, except is has more room for adjustment. They are just being *******s. **** the dealer! Find a better shop. call up a good performance shop in the area and ask the where they take their cars to get aligned. They should be able to give you a few names. Ask the people in the florida forum.

 
Rep Power: 412

call some of these places.
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr...,+FL&oi=localr

 
Rep Power: 294

Thanks Robb. I thought about that, but I bet most of the performance shops down here are closed on Sunday. I'll definately try tomorrow I guess.

 
Rep Power: 294

Ok, I think I finally got it more or less whitin 2 degrees. Looking through my Dad's electrical stuff, I found a tool that proved very useful. It's used for measuring angles on pipes, but it did the trick with the camber really well. At least that's how it looks at the end.
Measuring the distance from the center of the bolt that's closer to the drum to the center of the 2 bolts attached to the frame, I got 8.75 inches in length. Then, I added 1/16" on eah side of the arm, getting 0.125" in total length traveled. For the other tire, I simply repeated the process. Considering I had negative camber on both rear tires with Eiback Sportlines, this tool proved to be the closest I could get to the clearance I wanted. After I put the tire assy on, it looked just fine, at least until I get to the "performance shop" next week to put it within even better specs. Take a look:

 
Rep Power: 327

This process wont be even remotely close unless the measurement and adjustment was made with the tire on the ground , not to mention i dont understand why people are so worried about thier camber and dont seem to care about the number one tire wearing factor TOE!

 
Rep Power: 294

Oh well. like I said, I'm taking it to the shop next week to put it within the right specs, but for now it looks way better than before. If you don't care about the camber, then send me the $200 bucks I need to buy new front tires.

 
Rep Power: 380

Toe eats tires 10X faster then any amount of camber.... which is how I run -2.5 deg camber on the nose with Minimal extra tire wear... (Becaue toe is set to 0)


The reason People blame camber on tire wear after lowering is because its Visible, Toe is hard to see, so when their tires wear out they blame it on what they can see, which is camber. just be aware that when ever you change ride height, or camber angle, you are also altering toe. and thats the one you need to fix for maximum tire longevity.

 
Rep Power: 294

^^^It's true, we usually blame it on what we see and not physics.
I had almost -3 deg.(which is abdolutely noticeable) on the back before and the rear tires are still almost brand new. Never the less, on the front, oh boy! I have to be thinking about replacing them soon, and you can't barely tell there's neg. camber in the front, so it must definately be a problem with the toe since the inner treads of my front tires are almost gone in only 4 months, even when the front tires look very straight at first sight.
Ok so, if the toe is out of spec, then how do we fix it? I read about the other member mentioning a bolt somewhere and also something about washers? I'm taiking it to the shop next weekend, hopefully they can fix all these specs at the shop.

 
Rep Power: 311

I have the same springs as you and the same SPC rear kit. I added a 1/4" to the length of my SPC kit before installing it until I could take it in for an alignment. So the 1/8" you added should be okay for now.

Here's how I got my 1/4" measurement. With the car on level ground and tires on, I placed a straight edge vertically against the side of the wheel. Then I took a level and placed it against the straight edge and moved it away until it was level. I measured the gap from the straight edge to the level which came up to 3/8". So to be on the safe side I and give it a little amount of camber, I only increased the over all length of my SPC kit to 1/4". This was probably about a year ago I think.. still havent taken it in for an alignment. Seems okay though and my tires seem fine.

 
Rep Power: 294

Wow, a year Flotsam? That's a pretty long time without alignment, but if it works for you, ok...how about your front tires? Are they ok as well?
I think it's interesting that everyone comments on this camber stuff. IMO, diferent methods can be used to get it more or less within the specs. Trigonometry would be great here. If only we knew how much negative camber the tires had, then it would be a peace of cake.

 
Rep Power: 380

cubanmike26, if you wore out your front tires in 4 months, then you have a Toe problem.

There are some ways to adjust toe, and all of them are Stock... so you dont have to buy any thing to do it. The front is adjusted by the tie rod that attaches the steering rack to the Strut.

Here's a few DIY alignments..
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/diy-alignment.html
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=267237

and some tools, if you want to spend the $$
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long19.htm
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/art2.htm

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/long17.htm
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/art1.htm`

Though unless your handy with tools and a Measuring tape, I'd Highly recomend going to a shop and having it done.

 
Rep Power: 294

Very interesting Zzyzx. Although it appears to be a long time consuming process and difficult at the same time. Like you said, it might be better just to take it to the shop.

By the way, Do the camber & toe settings come out of spec with time? Say, like a year or so, keeping in mind that you drive decently, don't get into an accident or a deep hole.
I ask because I was offered a service at a shop where they compress the frame of the car and they said that this way it'll never come out of specs. I refused though.

 
Rep Power: 380

Yes a cars alignment comes out of spec over time. I believe its recomended to get an alignment every 1 to 2 years.

as far as compressing the frame to stop it from coming out of spec.... never heard of such a thing, and I fail to see how the frame has much to do with bolts and bushings from shifting and flexing...

 
Rep Power: 311

Yeah about I year or even more now that I think of it. I didnt bother buying a front camber kit with only a 1.5" drop. My tires are fine all around and it drives straight and doesnt pull to one side or anything. I guess if I ever install a front kit I'll take it in for an alignment.

 
Rep Power: 0

At NTB they wanted to charge me $150 to align my car because it was lowered. I found a guy I knew that worked there and he got it down to $96. Yeah the TOE is what matters!!! Camber aint no thang but a chicken ****... ummm never mind

 
Rep Power: 0

this is an old thread I know, but you all get ripped off. In Phoenix, I got a 4 wheel alignment after I was lowered just over 2". They had no prob with aligning it, and it was 80 out the door for camber, toe, and like 1 or 2 other things. They did an awesome job, for a great deal. Im hoping for my rear tires (just got SPC kit) that it should be 50-60. Maybe 30-40, I dunno. We'll see.

 
Rep Power: 309

It sounds like everyone is saying that a camber kit is not neccessary as long as toe is corrected then tire wear should be minimal. Is that right?
Toe is just corrected with tools correct? There is no "toe kit"

 
Rep Power: 327

Correct no "toe kit" is needed, but camber is also important for tire wear just not as important as toe!

 
Rep Power: 0

what about when you autocross? what setup should you have? 0 toe and neg. camber? how should i setup my car for both street regular driving with an occasional once a month autocross?

 
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what specs should we use if we are lowered?