Rear brake conversion
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: myrtle beach, South Carolina, US
Rep Power: 0 
what about the master cylinder off of the RSX same problem as the Si? By the way rotors, cilaper, pads, what else of the rear of the Si for OEM conversion not Big brake upgrade. And one more thing is there any hoses or anything that would need to be redone from under the hood to the rear wheels.
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
Last edited by Parisdreams; Jun 9, 2003 at 06:50 PM.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: TX
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Parisdreams
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
... i dont see why it wouldn't work.
http://www.wilwood.com/products/valves/valves.asp
The Man, Myth and Legend
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: Western Canada, where the beer is cold and the women are HOT!
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Parisdreams
what about the master cylinder off of the RSX same problem as the Si? By the way rotors, cilaper, pads, what else of the rear of the Si for OEM conversion not Big brake upgrade. And one more thing is there any hoses or anything that would need to be redone from under the hood to the rear wheels.
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
what about the master cylinder off of the RSX same problem as the Si? By the way rotors, cilaper, pads, what else of the rear of the Si for OEM conversion not Big brake upgrade. And one more thing is there any hoses or anything that would need to be redone from under the hood to the rear wheels.
O.K. I started out with old V8's and doing disc conversion on those i know that there are aftermarket external adjustable brake Basis controllers most recently I have seen one for the WRX would something of this fashion not work?
Look on page two for what you need to get started. rickinthescv and I did the research and listed everything you need. As for the adjustable bias controller, IMO, that's just one more piece to leak, break, or otherwise fail in an aftermarket setup. I would rather go OEM, and that way I know it all works together. 
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
From: Anniston, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 306 1. The brakes on a rear drive car are set up as two fronts and one line going to the rear. So you only have to use one proportional valve.
A front wheel drive car splits the brake pressure between the two sections of the master cylinder in a diagonal fashion. The proportional valve splits the pressure from the front left and rear right, and the front right and rear left.
You could use an adjustable valve, but you would have to use two of them. They would have to be adjusted identically.
2. This may be too much work. Honda has already found the bias for us, since they put the exact set up of the Si brakes and Ex master cylinder and brake booster on the EL. So the valve they made would be a drop in.
3. Since the EL uses the same master cylinder and brake booster as the EX, the pedal pressure should be fine. After all, EL owners do not complain about mushy brakes.
4. The RSX Type S does use bigger rotors and calipers in the front, but the RSX does use a different type of boost assist. So you would be looking for a unit that would fit from an older Integra. Possible, but I guarantee you that changing the master cylinder and brake booster are a pain in the rear. Doable, but adding a lot more work and expense when the system would be fine.
5. When a manufacturer designs an upgrade kit, they either use the same calipers (same amount of pressure required) or design the caliper to use the same pressure. Now obviously 4 pistion calipers are going to need a bigger booster and master cylinder along with a new proportional valve. But right now, those kits are thousands of dollars. So if you are going that far, you just do what you have to do.
6. What I tried to do was illustrate that yes, it was possible to install rear disk brakes. You can find most of the parts used, and they will be OEM parts, so repairing them will be possible. You will always find parts for them from Honda, so you will not be stuck if the company that made the adapting kit goes out of business.
So in a nutshell you will need the proportional valve, the brake assembly from the knuckle out, the brake lines will bolt up where the stock rubber lines attach to the hard lines. The parking brake cables will need to be replaced up to the brake equalizer. IF you use Si or EL brakes, you will still be 4 lug with the proper offset.
A front wheel drive car splits the brake pressure between the two sections of the master cylinder in a diagonal fashion. The proportional valve splits the pressure from the front left and rear right, and the front right and rear left.
You could use an adjustable valve, but you would have to use two of them. They would have to be adjusted identically.
2. This may be too much work. Honda has already found the bias for us, since they put the exact set up of the Si brakes and Ex master cylinder and brake booster on the EL. So the valve they made would be a drop in.
3. Since the EL uses the same master cylinder and brake booster as the EX, the pedal pressure should be fine. After all, EL owners do not complain about mushy brakes.
4. The RSX Type S does use bigger rotors and calipers in the front, but the RSX does use a different type of boost assist. So you would be looking for a unit that would fit from an older Integra. Possible, but I guarantee you that changing the master cylinder and brake booster are a pain in the rear. Doable, but adding a lot more work and expense when the system would be fine.
5. When a manufacturer designs an upgrade kit, they either use the same calipers (same amount of pressure required) or design the caliper to use the same pressure. Now obviously 4 pistion calipers are going to need a bigger booster and master cylinder along with a new proportional valve. But right now, those kits are thousands of dollars. So if you are going that far, you just do what you have to do.
6. What I tried to do was illustrate that yes, it was possible to install rear disk brakes. You can find most of the parts used, and they will be OEM parts, so repairing them will be possible. You will always find parts for them from Honda, so you will not be stuck if the company that made the adapting kit goes out of business.
So in a nutshell you will need the proportional valve, the brake assembly from the knuckle out, the brake lines will bolt up where the stock rubber lines attach to the hard lines. The parking brake cables will need to be replaced up to the brake equalizer. IF you use Si or EL brakes, you will still be 4 lug with the proper offset.
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 rickinthescv:
stupid question: you refer always to the "Ex" as having the same master cylinder as the EL. Out of curiosity, do you know if they're the same for the LX?
I think we said we don't need to replace it, but I just want a definite answer on this.
My brother in-law went to acura for a parts list, and to honda for a parts list, and is peicing together the needed components for me. (bday present, but I have to donate cash as well).
hopefully we'll have it all figured out relatively soon. I'm going to hit up the junkyards to find some totalled EL's, and see what I can scrounge. I don't want to have to replace the master cylinder, though.
Thanks in advance!
stupid question: you refer always to the "Ex" as having the same master cylinder as the EL. Out of curiosity, do you know if they're the same for the LX?
I think we said we don't need to replace it, but I just want a definite answer on this.
My brother in-law went to acura for a parts list, and to honda for a parts list, and is peicing together the needed components for me. (bday present, but I have to donate cash as well).
hopefully we'll have it all figured out relatively soon. I'm going to hit up the junkyards to find some totalled EL's, and see what I can scrounge. I don't want to have to replace the master cylinder, though.
Thanks in advance!
The Man, Myth and Legend
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: Western Canada, where the beer is cold and the women are HOT!
Rep Power: 0 Tekgnosis. I called my dealership and asked about the difference between the "ex" (Si in canada) master cylinder and the LX one. They said they would get back to me on that. Your's is a good question, one that I had not thought of, so I am trying to get some answers. From what I know about the two models, they should be the same. But remember, as rickinthescv said, the brakes on our cars use a single line for the rear drums. Having to convert to disc brakes means uping the pressure in the lines. So I would assume that you and I would need to get a master cylinder from an EL, cause they are already set up for disc brake pressure on the rear lines.
Maybe I'm talking out my
, I dunno. But I'll wait for an answer from the parts guy at my dealership, and I'll let ya know.
Maybe I'm talking out my
, I dunno. But I'll wait for an answer from the parts guy at my dealership, and I'll let ya know. Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
From: Anniston, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 306 A rear wheel drive car uses a single line for the rear drums. A front wheel drive car uses the front part of the master cylinder for the left front and right rear, the rear part of the master cylinder for the right front and left rear. It is the proportional valve that controls the balance.
The master cylinder and brake booster are different part numbers for a DX and LX. My first guess would be that the EX has ABS, while the LX and DX do not. ABS tends to use a higher pressure since the ABS module fluctuates the pressure.
The easisest way to find out is to try the system out. Your brakes will still work if you have the proper proportioning valve, you just may not like the amount of travel required to activate the brakes. But it may work out totally fine and you not notice a difference.
I guess the catch is that the Acura EL is just like an EX with disk brakes while the other cars have a few more differences. Of course if you have a DX or LX, you will not need the ABS sensors. Past that mechanically, all the parts should be relatively the same.
The master cylinder and brake booster are different part numbers for a DX and LX. My first guess would be that the EX has ABS, while the LX and DX do not. ABS tends to use a higher pressure since the ABS module fluctuates the pressure.
The easisest way to find out is to try the system out. Your brakes will still work if you have the proper proportioning valve, you just may not like the amount of travel required to activate the brakes. But it may work out totally fine and you not notice a difference.
I guess the catch is that the Acura EL is just like an EX with disk brakes while the other cars have a few more differences. Of course if you have a DX or LX, you will not need the ABS sensors. Past that mechanically, all the parts should be relatively the same.
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 The LX has ABS in canada. So that causes some problems...I was hoping the MC would be the same.
hrm...interesting.
the brake proportioning valve from the EL is something I can get no problem.
hrm...I'm thinking I might hack something together with the EL, and the SiR.
I'll keep you guys posted!
(This sat, I hope to get at least all the part numbers, and go from there).
hrm...interesting.
the brake proportioning valve from the EL is something I can get no problem.
hrm...I'm thinking I might hack something together with the EL, and the SiR.
I'll keep you guys posted!
(This sat, I hope to get at least all the part numbers, and go from there).
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 that's an interesting question. 
it would give you some really dangerous braking qualities that would really suck for daily driving.
if you're trying to drift: real drifters only counter drift into a drift, and control it with the gas and steering wheel....there are no brakes involved.
-----
ok guys, I think I found a place that will sell me the entire kit I need to upgrade to rear discs!!!!!!!
it's about a 2 hour drive, so I'm going to hit it tomorrow morning. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
hrm....I wonder if this place has any SiR seats? I'd better bring some extra cash
it would give you some really dangerous braking qualities that would really suck for daily driving.
if you're trying to drift: real drifters only counter drift into a drift, and control it with the gas and steering wheel....there are no brakes involved.
-----
ok guys, I think I found a place that will sell me the entire kit I need to upgrade to rear discs!!!!!!!
it's about a 2 hour drive, so I'm going to hit it tomorrow morning. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
hrm....I wonder if this place has any SiR seats? I'd better bring some extra cash
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 ok guys, i've got 95% of the parts i need. i just need to know what to get in the ways of master cylinder.
I have an lx 02, w/abs. i think i just need the brake proportioning valve from the EL:
Is that correct?
i might do this swap in two weeks...i got everything from an Si/SiR...the entire control arm assembly, with the brakes still attached, and the brake cables.
i need to find polyurethane bushings for the control arm, and figure out the brake valve, and then I'm done!
do the control arm bushings need to be pressed on, does anyone know?
I have an lx 02, w/abs. i think i just need the brake proportioning valve from the EL:
Acura's valve, part 46210-S5A-912.
i might do this swap in two weeks...i got everything from an Si/SiR...the entire control arm assembly, with the brakes still attached, and the brake cables.
i need to find polyurethane bushings for the control arm, and figure out the brake valve, and then I'm done!
do the control arm bushings need to be pressed on, does anyone know?
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 is this thread dead?
I found the part number on majestic honda's website:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...=46210-S5A-912
it's about $65USD. The dealer here wanted $168 CAD!!!!
Ok, I think once I get this part, I can do everything!
I've got the entire back end off of an SiR (Si), and then I'll have the valve. It came with the parking brake cables, the control arms, EVERYTHING...so now I'm just waiting on the proportioning valve!
sweet!
I found the part number on majestic honda's website:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...=46210-S5A-912
it's about $65USD. The dealer here wanted $168 CAD!!!!
Ok, I think once I get this part, I can do everything!
I've got the entire back end off of an SiR (Si), and then I'll have the valve. It came with the parking brake cables, the control arms, EVERYTHING...so now I'm just waiting on the proportioning valve!
sweet!
Registered!!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: Chatsworth
Rep Power: 0 I have a 2003 Dx and i want to put on 17x7's on or 18x 7.5's and i want to do a full brake upgrade on all corners so let me know what goes on with your project and please let us know if the price includes parts for the front big brake conversion or just the rears.
Does andbody know where a tight body kit is for a 03 4 door?
Does andbody know where a tight body kit is for a 03 4 door?
Registered!!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 I got a 2001 EX and I'm curious about doing the conversion for the rears. When someone finishes this up, could you please post all parts required (part #s also if possible) and an est. of price. I just can't stand those little brakes in the back.
Theres another post in the So. Cal. forum where a guy did his conversion with out the proportioning valve. Will his brakes be affected? He says hes a mechanic at a Honda dealer. Rickinthescv you seem to know what you are talking about, what do you think about this? BTW he used parts from the Si.
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
From: Anniston, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 306 The main problem is that his brakes in the rear are not getting as much pressure as they could. Disk brakes require MORE pressure to achieve the same effect of braking. This is because drum brakes are self helping, since the pads get wedged to increase pressure on the drum. ON a side note, drum brakes are good because of this effect, but they are drastically affected by heat and moisture, both of which make disks superior.
His setup is not bad per se, but I guarantee that he is not getting the full level of performance he could be getting. And realize that I took the whole setup off an Acura EL, so we should assume that Honda did their homework and designed a proper proportional valve to use with the disks.
I am not doubting that he is technically qualified, the installation is pretty involved. But I know that the proportional valve has to be changed to take full advantage of the disks. I mean wouldn't you want the maximum performance you can get?
His setup is not bad per se, but I guarantee that he is not getting the full level of performance he could be getting. And realize that I took the whole setup off an Acura EL, so we should assume that Honda did their homework and designed a proper proportional valve to use with the disks.
I am not doubting that he is technically qualified, the installation is pretty involved. But I know that the proportional valve has to be changed to take full advantage of the disks. I mean wouldn't you want the maximum performance you can get?
E36 M3 Driver.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: SoCal, riv., US
Rep Power: 0 Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 cool!
I'm next!
I'm gonna order the proportion valve from wilwood. It's the shiznit!
And as if that guy wants $600 for everything...It's gonna cost me $700 CAD to do it all!
anywho, I'll post a DIY when I'm done the swap.
I'm next!
I'm gonna order the proportion valve from wilwood. It's the shiznit!
And as if that guy wants $600 for everything...It's gonna cost me $700 CAD to do it all!
anywho, I'll post a DIY when I'm done the swap.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 0 rickinthescv....I am in Tuscaloosa, I was wondering if you have done this conversion?...or if you know what all parts to get. I don't know if you ever heard of Troy's Honda in t-town, but they are a junkyard dealing only with Honda's and I am sure I could get the parts for cheap...
Ask me about your mom.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,563
Likes: 0
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 316 I finished my brakes on saturday...they look and work GREAT!!!!
I didn't use a new proportioning valve...it's not something that's absolutely mandatory at the getgo.
I'm gonna post up a DIY for the brake swap, including all the stuff you need.
keep an eye out for it within the next couple of days.
unfortunately, my digi cam ran out of batteries, so I don't really have a lot of pictures
but...like I said, it looks and works great! the backs lockup AFTER the front (which is great), and there's no problem with the abs!
it all works sweetly!
I didn't use a new proportioning valve...it's not something that's absolutely mandatory at the getgo.
I'm gonna post up a DIY for the brake swap, including all the stuff you need.
keep an eye out for it within the next couple of days.
unfortunately, my digi cam ran out of batteries, so I don't really have a lot of pictures
but...like I said, it looks and works great! the backs lockup AFTER the front (which is great), and there's no problem with the abs!
it all works sweetly!
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 0 There is a place in the town tha ti am from that will sell all the parts for like 600.00 if anyone wants there number or anything they will ship the parts to you, just pm me or post...
Registered!!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: GTA, Canada
Rep Power: 0 tekgnosis:
What's the story on the DIY, I'm itching.
I've got an Si (EX in US) so I'm setup with EBD already.
Let's get this thing rolling!
What's the story on the DIY, I'm itching.
I've got an Si (EX in US) so I'm setup with EBD already.
Let's get this thing rolling!
Last edited by CrazyCanuck; Jul 12, 2003 at 08:51 AM.
is anyone gonna post up the PN's? I have my own way of getting Honda parts, but im not exactly sure on everything needed. So i know im not the only one asking, so please for those that are done with the swap, post up a list of every part needed, and PN's if possible.
Thanks
Thanks
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: myrtle beach, South Carolina, US
Rep Power: 0 why is no one posting parts. I've been wanting to do this for a while. I know the knukle out, but that isn't helping me much when I go searching for the parts. As I have posted this before as have other will someone plaese post a parts list.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 0 I just got done doing the conversion. It is really easy, all you have to do is take from the knuckle out and diconect the e-brake cables, everything from the 02 or 03 si bolts directly in. I also have the part numbers so give me a min to get them all together...
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama, US
Rep Power: 0 Ok, Honda faxed me the front part numbers, I called them and they are going to fax me the rear ones in about an hour. I took some pics and I should be able to put up a post on how to do the swap as soon as I develop them. I will get those numbers up as soon as they fax them to me.
so you swapped out the front rotors and stuff with the 02 Si stuff, and the rear? I thought people were just doing the rears. Thats cool...how much did everything cost you then?
