Rep Power: 235

Ok I'll try to keep this short. The things I did yesterday were:

Replaced front rotors with centric premiums.
Replaced front calipers with re-manufactured Honda calipers.
Replaced front pads with HAWK HPS pads.

Replaced rear shoes with Honda shoe kit.
Replaced rear wheel cylinder with new Honda OEM's.
Replaced all 3 springs on either side.
Replaced rear drums.

Replaced lines with Techna-Fit SS lines.

I have a few issues and one major one. First, the Hawk pads are grabbing the rotors even when I don't brake. It's not a loud scrape, but it is consistent. This is happening on both new calipers/rotors. When I turn the car on on jackstands, the front wheels don't move. They WERE moving before but still scraping (when I tested it) but now the calipers bite enough to where it can't even get started. Second, I put brake quiet on the back of the shims, but not between the shim and the pad. Is that a problem?

Second, in the rear, the wheel cylinders popped out a few times when installing the new ones, but I put it back together and fit everything right. Hopefully that won't mess anything up?

When adjusting the ebrake, I did it so that both drums scraped on 1 click, and were tight by 6.

Now the main problem. After I hooked up all the hardware, I bled the lines with ATE super blue. Solid blue coming out of 4 wheels. Then I went for a test drive and had no braking power. The pedal is firm when I pump it up when the car is off, and it holds - leading me to believe the power booster is ok. I don't hear any swooshing or vacuum leak sounds under the hood either. Also when I do start the car, the pedal does drop like its supposed to with a functioning power booster. But AFTER I turn the car on, the pedal just drops. It doesn't FEEL like a leaky master cylinder, where fluid is slowly getting by the seals, because it has very little resistance. If I pump it while the car is on or slam it fast, then the resistance shoots up just a bit, but for the most part I drop the pedal, and the car comes to a creeping stop because it's like only the drums are grabbing, I mean I can't even tell honestly. I went for a SHORT drive because I didn't want to kill any children

So I came back, and it sounded like a bad master. I figured I might have let it run low when bleeding, so maybe I did some damage to it. Bought a cheap replacement, bench bled it, installed it, bled the lines again (BARELY any air came out). Turned on the car and the pedal drops to the floor again. No braking power, no resistance. So this is the point I'm stuck at now.

Literally every major piece of hardware has been replaced. What could be causing this? There is NO air in the lines, at least not AFTER the master. I don't have ABS by the way. I followed the lines as far as I could and couldn't find any leaks. Some by the splitter but that could've been spillage by me. I am going to try and bench bleed the master again and reinstall it, maybe I just did it wrong..? I don't think so. If it's not my booster, and I have a new MC, and the hardware after that is all new, then what?

I had a few random ideas.. things I was unsure about but in retrospect may affect this...

1) When I slid both calipers on the rotors, the left one went on fine. I did not lube or grease anything because it looked like it was pre-lubed as a remanufactured honda caliper. The right one didn't go on as smooth because the piston was sticking out, so I depressed it and it fit on there. Originally the brakes were not dragging on EITHER rotor! This happened after I pumped, bled, and tried to drive, over the course of that its like the caliper isn't retracting. It's NOT the backng plate or dustcover making those noises.

2) Does it matter which way the SS lines are installed? I figured as long as front is on front it's all good.

3) If I did let the MC run dry, would replacing it repair any damage done, or could there have been damage elsewhere? Also, the reservoir that is attached to the power booster, or it looks like the hose goes to the right of it. That fluid didn't get changed and the level never went down during all this. Is that hose clogged? What is it for? It's at max.

4) When I installed the MC, a but more fluid spilled out of the line holes until I could get it bolted up, not much but a little. Could that be causing the air pocked at the end of the cylinder? Do I have to do anything to the rest of the car when I take it off and install it? Readjust or measure anything on the power booster or what not?

5) Where/what is the proportioning valve... could that be damaged?

6) My brakes where in bad bad shape before this. 90k, pads worn smooth to the metal, seriously grooved pads, and squishy lines, and brake fluid that hadn't been changed in over 4 years/50k. Is all this new equipment just making existing problems crop up?

7) If the ebrake is over tightened, or the shoe position is adjusted too close, could this cause pedal drop or decreased braking force on the front end?

I'm just frustrated, it was hours of meticulous work and I was hoping for a smooth reward. Now it's just sitting there

 
Rep Power: 188

The calipers must be able to move back slightly to release pressure on the pads. If you can't get them to slide backwards and release pressure off the pads with careful use of a screw driver/pry bar, you have to figure out why.

If you open the bleeder, you can release pressure from the fluid to make sure that is not keeping the caliper under pressure.

Then try to pry the caliper back, if it won't move, either the brake pads are too thick, or your caliper is hanging up on the pins, or the pistons themselves are hung up. Make sure the pistons move back and forth a bit. Do not push them out of the caliper.

If you take the caliper off the rotor, install the old brake pads to avoid getting oil on the new. Put a piece of wood the thickness of the rotor in between the pads and have someone push on the brake pedal. The pistons should move out and then you should be able to push them back in. Do not get a finger in there when someone else is pushing on the pedal.

It is possible you did not get the pads or hardware positioned properly.

Fix that problem first. Then re-bleed the master cylinder and all 4 wheels.

Your brakes should still work if the booster diaphram is bad, but the pedal will be much harder.

I assume air in master cylinder, lines, or wheel calipers or cylinders could cause that problem.

I don't think so. Both front and rear brakes should be loose enough to turn the disc or drum by hand. It may be difficult to turn by hand, but they should definitely turn by hand with the tire mounted.

After you bleed and install the master cylinder, you still have to bleed from all 4 wheel cylinders enough to also bleed the master cylinder.

 
Rep Power: 235

nevermind.

the calipers were on backwards.


everything is working nice. Need to adjust the freeplay on the pedal a bit, but other then that it's awesome to have good brakes again.

 
Rep Power: 352

^how the hell did u put the calipers on backward, they only go on one direction. lol

 
Rep Power: 189

Thats what i was thinking, i didnt really think that was possible