Rep Power: 237

My breaking power is absolute crap and has been for a while. So now that I got new tires (neogens) a little while ago I'm going to put them on this weekend the same time I do the brake job so I can be nice and wow-ed. I've ordered the corsports/technafit SS lines, some hawk hps pads and dba4000 slotted rotors, and I picked up some shoes from autozone, generic-o brand, and some centric drums because last time I had my drums machined out they were damn near the limit of max diameter and they're cheap so why not. Also got the rear brake shoe kit from the local dealer. And of course the anti-squeal, have some brake cleaner lying around, and some high temp grease. I really wanted the HP+ pads but I don't want my car to sound like an orgy of zombie pigs when I brake, and those are expensive rotors that I would like to last for a while.

I plan on changing the front rotors and pads, rear drums and shoes, adjusting the e-brake cable and brake pedal, but I would also like to get some rbf 600 and bleed/flush the brake fluid. It's never been changed ever and the car has 82k on it. From what I've read in my haynes and online, I suck out as much fluid from my master cylinder as I can, top it off, put the cap back on, then go caliper to caliper and have some one push down normally but not too far on the pedal, then I loosen the bleeder screw, when crap stops coming out close the bleeder screw and have them let up on the pedal, and repeat until nice clear fluid is coming out, and go from FL/FR/RR/RL. My questions:

1) What's the volume of the brake system? So I know how much fluid to run through it so it's a complete flush? Couldn't find that in the Haynes anywhere. How many 500mL bottles of Motul do I need?

2) Where do I get the proper sized plastic tubing from to place over bleeder screw fitting?

3) Is the order above correct? Online people are saying to do it in a different order, RR, RL, FR, FL.

4) I read somewhere else that you can open all 4 bleeder valves with out the brake pedal depressed, let it gravity bleed, then depress, let it bleed, tighten, let go of pedal, open al 4 again, basically same process but letting it gravity bleed at first and doing all 4 at once. Is this a sound method?

5) Where's the bleeder valve on the rear drums...

6) How does me changing the brake lines affect the bleeding process? I assume I would change the lines BEFORE I bleed the brakes. So... like when I unplug the line from the caliper... do I plug the line, or do I let it drip the fluid out since im going to bleed the old fluid and air out of it anyways? Or can I just pump the breaks with the brake lines detached and unplugged and squirt out as much as I can and then bleed them properly after theyve been installed? Do the new brake line kits come with replacement sealing washers?

Lastly I also want to inspect and clean up the calipers, keep that piston moving for another 80k you know? What should I look for? How do I test them? How can I clean them? There's nothing about caliper cleaning or maintenance in the haynes, just removal and installation.

Um, that's all. Sorry for the long post. I hope to be stopping normally soon.

 
Rep Power: 353

^you do NOT want to suck out the brake fluid from the master.

just depress ur brakes, bleed them, and then refill ur master. DO NOT LET THE MASTER RUN DRY as this will cause air bubbles to get in ur system.

bleed ur brakes untill "clear" fluid comes out and you will eventually flush the entire system.

1. i used up a whole litter of brake fluid and then some when i bled/flushed my sytem. there is NO need to use RBF600. unless u have alot of $$$ to spend because u willl need 2-3 cans, and at $20 dollars a car....u get it.

there are other :motorcycle DOT4 or 5.1 out there are have very high boiling points that you can use. like galfer (recomend) or bel-ray....which are like 7-10$ per bottle.

2. get it at home depot. it is 1/4 i believe. they run like 3bucks for 10ft. keep em, you use them some other time.

3. FL/FR/RR/RL is correct.

4.dont do it this way, u will cause air to re-enter ur caliper and brake system.

5. the bleeder valve is behind the drum (top area). you will see it when you take off ur rear wheel. the bleeder valve for the rear is smaller than the front.

6. when you change ur lines to SS lines, u will pretty much need to flush ur system, because once u disconnect ur OEM line, air rappidly goes into ur system.

yes change lines before u bleed. do not empty out ur lines (pump the brakes of fluid) jsut disconnect the OEM line, and then install the SS line (do it for all 4) and then start bleeding. make sure all lines/bleeder valves are closed before you start pumping.


NOTE: if you can get speed bleeders, it will make bleeding ur lines a 1 man job (literally) and you will be able to flush a whole system in literally 4mins without help.

speed bleeders replace the stock bleeder valve.


as for teh calipers and such, when you take out ur pads, spray them down with simple green (or any kind of degreaser) then wipe them down, check for any signs of torn rubber and such. if all is good, ur calipers are finel

if u wanted to really clean them (only if u have OCD like me) you can completly take apart ur calipers, pistons, seals...etc but again this is not necessary.


any other questions feel free to ask.

 
Rep Power: 353

so heres teh basic steps ill lay out for you.

additional recomends that will make ur install easier:

PB blaster (this will loosen up the bolts that hav been tightened for the last 80k)
simple green (degreaser)
brake pad anti-squeel grease


-jack ur car up ON ALL FOURS, take off ur wheels
-spray PB blaster on the bolts+nuts on the ends of the stock brake lines OF ALL FOUR wheel. be generous when applying PB blaster
-take out the OEM lines, and replace them withe SS lines.
-do one at a time: FR, FL, RL, RR.
note: BE VERY CAREFUL because the bolts are very very very soft and you WILL strip them if u are not carful. thats why you need to spray more PB blaster to loosed it up. have patients, it'll take time for the PB to soak in.

-take off the caliper by unscrewing 2 bolts. there are two big bolts (should be size 14mm or 17mm, i forgot.)
-then take off ur rotor and put ur new rotor on.
(you might want to use an impact screw driver, those silly philips are hard to get out.)
-now with ur caliper off, depress the pistonsthen replace the front pads
note: remember to put anti-squeel grease on it. you will need to depress the
-put the caliper bakk on and connect ur SS line to the caliper.

do this for the other side (other wheel)

do ur rear drum.


by now you should have all new pads, shoes in, and ur SS lines connected to the calipers/drums

(if u dont have speed bleeders, you will need a friend)
-start front left. connect ur tube to the bleeder valve
-have ur friend pump ur brakes slowly so he can build pressure. REMEMBER TO REFILL THE MASTER SO IT WONT RUN DRY.
-open the FL bleeder valve and have ur friend pump some more. close it, pump some more.(might want to repeat that untill pressure is built)
-open the valve, and once u see some fluid comming out, its time to really start bleeding ur valve.

-close the valve and have ur friend pump the brakes a few times AND THEM DEPRESS THE BRAKES. tell him to hold it and KEEP PRESSURE ON THE BRAKES.
-while he has pressure on the brakes, open the valve and fluid will come out (he must still be depressing the brakes).then close the valve AND THEN he can let go of the brake.

so:
pump
pump
pump + HOLD!
open valve, close valve
let brakes go.

keep doing this untill u dont see any bubbles. (small bubbles is ok because we will be making another round of pumping afterward). your first round of bleeding is the put fluid and semi pressure in ur new SS lines.

do this for FL FR RR RL.

once u are done with the first round, do FL FR RR RL again for a second time.

THIS TIME MAKE SURE U DONT HAVE ANY BUBBLES..

once u do this, ur pretty much done.

 
Rep Power: 353

this is how ur fluid is gonna look. mine was only 50k in that bottle

 
Rep Power: 211

One suggestion would be to spray the joints in the brake lines with the PB blaster ahead of time. I would spray them a week before and again a couple of days before. Penetrating oil needs time to do it's job. Also WD40 is NOT penetrating oil so make sure to use PB blaster or one of the others such as Aerokroil.
Another thing to remember is most brake fluid will remove paint if it is left on long enough. You just need to be careful and wipe it off if it spills on a painted surface.
If you have antilock brakes the bleeding procedure is the same but it may not be possible to get all the old fluid out. When I did the Civic I noticed that the fluid in the master cylinder resevoir became 'dirty' sooner than I expected. I believe this was from fluid trapped in the antilock module that later mixed with the new fluid. Some antilock modules have a bleeder valve but I don't remember the Civic having one.
When I am flushing the system I usually do suck the old fluid from the master cylinder fluid first. The most important thing is that whatever you use to suck out the fluid has to be CLEAN. If you have a turkey baster sitting around that you use for other stuff, don't use it, buy a new one. You get the idea, this is one place you do not want contamination.
When bleeding the brakes, most directions say to start with the longest brake lines first which are the back ones. My experience is it usually doesn't matter but depending on where air is in the system, it may be necessary to repeat each wheel.