ezone

Gotta lift, wiggle, and jiggle. Start all 4 of the bolts BEFORE trying to tighten ANY of them.

blackwaterstout

Thanks for the diagram. The top right bolt hole is gaulded somehow. I tried to screw the bolt back into the hole even without the compressor mounted and it will not go. the screw itself is fine because it will screw into the other 3 holes. But the hole will need tapped. However I only have an SAE tap set and that compressor bolt is an M8x1.25. I had to reinstall the compressor with only 3 bolts for now. I need to get the required tap to clean out that hole. It may be easier if I take the bracket off and tap it on my workshop bench.

I never was able to reach the snap ring. I had to reassemble everything without fixing it. Which is a damn shame. I had gotten to the very last part of the repair and was not able to fix it. Broke my heart. honestly I'm not sure what type of snap ring pliers I need but I can tell you there aren't any in this town that will work because I literally went ever where I knew of to buy tools. If someone can point me to some that I can buy online then I'll attempt the repair again. But for now I'm SOL.

ezone

Mine are (EDIT: Mac and Matco). A variety of them, various sizes, straight and 90 degree. They get me by.

I have a couple sets of Sears type with little bits that get swapped around, I haven't used those in 20 years or more.

blackwaterstout

Do you think these would work from Snap-on? My concern is that the dial would hit the coil or shaft. I can't tell from the diagram how deep those would go or if they could reach the snapring.

These look like they would surely work if they were external. But these appear to be internal.

darkstarchuck

I did this, but did not include in my step by step.

When attempting repairs such as this, a certain level of naturally occurring mechanical talent is a prerequisite. Also, a friend that has many years of practical experience on speed dial helps. (mine was at the river, out of cell range)

If I had included all the subtle, what seem to me to be insignificant, steps that are required to accomplish this new task, the write up would have required several pages. I have to go back to ezone's earlier quote, mentioning that many repairs should be left to reputable shops with professionals. (which, I admit, ARE hard to find)

Sorry to hear that your experience was less than successful, but it is not too late.

AFAIK, that mounting plate would seem to be simple enough to remove, in order to clean up the threads, so all is not lost. Call Snap-On, and get the phone number of your local sales rep (Tool truck driver) and he may have the needed snap-ring pliers on board.

I know I have spent extra money buying special, expensive, tools in order to complete a repair. Almost always, the cost is still less than paying a shop for parts and labor.

darkstarchuck

It looks like the dial will get in the way. Snap On does not have all of their catolog items available on-line. Call them to get ahold of the local rep.

They are internal, they won't work.

ezone

I just looked in my box, I was wrong about Snappy. Mine are mostly MAC and MATCO. None have the large adjuster wheel like in the snappy link (it DOES get in the way), they all use the manual setscrew to change from internal to external. I have 6 or 10 sets to choose from, depending on the need. (Means I have no idea which ones would fit your situation.)

blackwaterstout

You think these would work? They look long and thin.

darkstarchuck

Yes, those will work. It will still be a bit difficult to maneuver without the angle, but they are long enough and thin enough. Here is a Snap-On set, FYI

blackwaterstout

I bought these Knipex pliers from MAC and after receiving them I think they will work. Time for round two this weekend. If I can't defeat the angry Honda dragon this weekend I'm throwing in the towel and conceeding.

blackwaterstout

Pliers worked, part installed, it worked.............

darkstarchuck

Congratulations, I'm glad it worked out. The pliers were a great find.

ezone

Mod editted

km60155

I'm getting ready to start a coil and clutch replacement, but looking at the compressor, the top two mounting bolts look really hard to access. Is it easier with the alternator removed?

ezone

I don't need to do that, but I have a big assortment of tools to choose from. If I can SEE the fastener, I can usually build a tool to reach it.


Maybe one of the other posters will chime in.

Knnuckles

it's not that bad - I just did mine last weekend.

I did not have to remove the alternator --- for the top 2 bolts, use a 1/4" drive with a 12mm socket I think --- the left side I think I had to use the 1/4" extension on the socket to reach it due to one of the pre-bent AC lines. The right side, if I recall correctly, I did not need the extension. Just slip it on, break the torque off the bolts, and they come out pretty easy, leave the one of the bolts in with a few threads, then go underneath and remove the bottom 2 from below - again using the 1/4" drive with an extension.

Few things I learned from my experience vs. reading the posts on the web:

1) I put an impact air gun on the nut that holds the pulley on and it came right off, no need to hold it with any huge pliers
2) the pulley did not just "pull right off", I had to use a pulley puller borrowed from my neighbor, or you can borrow one from AutoZone/etc.
3) get some heavy duty zip ties to help hang/angle the compressor (make sure they fit through the mounting bolt holes). I placed some through the top mounting bolt holes to support the weight, then I placed a few through the bottom right hole and tied it to the front bumper to pull the rear of the compressor forward, which angles the front with the pulley to the back, so you can access it through the wheel well.
4) I had an assortment of snap ring pliers that I bought from harbor freight --- non of them worked for the ring holding the Coil on. I was lucky in that my neighbor had to borrow that worked perfectly. They should be Long, slender and need to have the small pegs on the tips, I tried grinding a pair that had the thicker pegs on the ends and they broke. My last resort was dental picks, but luckily I did not have to go that route.
5) I had to use the Pulley Puller to get the coil off, it did not just "slip off" even after working it various ways.
6) the screw that grounds the coil was corroded on and I could not get the screw off - I cut the ground wire and spliced in the new one - if you do the same, then make sure you seal the splice well to protect from the elements.
7) the new coil went right on, Make sure the snap rings seat correctly when reinstalling
8) the new pulley did not slip right on, I used a 2x4 and a hammer to convince it to go back on, again, make sure the snap ring seats correctly when reinstalling.
9) make sure the clutch has the appropriate amount of spacers (washers) in place so that it is not touching the pulley when the the pulley turns --- you will need to test fit a few spacers and see what works. For example, I had one spacer when I removed the old one, but needed 3 with the new one.
10) I had a heck of a time re-mounting the AC compressor --- before I realized it had "hangers" built into it. Therefore, you need to "hang" it before you can put the bolts in --- go underneath and push the compressor up towards the top of the engine, tilt it slightly back towards the rear of the car, lower it until the hangers catch then let it hang while you put the bolts back in. You will know when the hangers catch, because the 4 holes will line up almost perfectly.
11) Install a new belt while you are doing this
12) After new belt is installed, start the car and test the compressor before putting everything back together

One of the posters on one of these forums said that it took them 1 1/2 hours to do the whole job --- I guess if everything went well, then maybe. Mine took about 7 hours, with 2 of those hours messing around with the snap ring pliers before I checked in with my neighbor. Lots of patience and you'll get it.

Been running solid for a week now and it's nice having COLD air again!

All in all, it's not that bad of a job to do yourself - I could probably do it in half the amount of time next time.

Anyway - just wanted to share my experience ---- Good luck.

km60155

Knnuckles, thanks for the advice, I'll see if I can add any of my own after the job is done.

I do have another question though, is there anyway to know if the compressor caused the clutch failure? After researching, it sounds like most clutch failures are the result of an overheating compressor.

In my case, I believe I have a fried coil (infinite coil resistance) and a fried pulley bearing (intermittant rattle). But I don't know if the compressor caused these failures.

ezone

The compressor itself doesn't normally cause it.....the clutch does.

Look closely for evidence of heat issues.
*Check armature plate finish for blistering or peeling*
These heat issues are usually caused by incorrect clutch adjustment or a weak field coil, either can allow clutch slippage and subsequent heat damage. THAT can ruin the both bearing and coil.

The coil is designed to protect the compressor shaft seal in the event of an overheat by opening the circuit



Unless otherwise presented with other sufficient evidence of a compressor problem or damage, I'd assume it's simply a bad coil and replace the parts necessary (clutch set and coil) to make the original compressor work again. (Make sure the compressor isn't locked up and hasn't broken the shaft before proceeding. The shaft/nut/outer plate should turn, but with some resistance.)

Be sure to set the clearance on the new clutch correctly. I like to use a dial indicator and power up the clutch manually.
0.50mm +/- 0.15mm is the spec.


HTH

Knnuckles

I doubt the compressor itself caused the failure.

I believe my coil went bad because there were not enough shims installed and the clutch was ever so lightly touching the pulley, creating resistance which made the coil work harder. I don't know for sure, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

When the compressor itself goes --- normally you hear very odd noises (metal spinning in a way it should not be spinning, clunking, grinding, chewing, etc) or you may see evidence of oil leaks from the compressor.

Are you certain it was the pulley causing the rattling noise?

km60155

No, not certain, but hopefully I will be able to tell the pulley bearing is bad when I take it apart. Right now, it makes this intermittent rattle, exactly like this youtube video I found from another civic owner.

ezone

^You can SEE that pulley is shifting sideways when the noise happens. Also, it kinda looks like the clutch plate has been baked. The outer ring surface looks like it's been in a fire.

----------------------

You can loosen your drive belt and spin the compressor pulley by hand and see if it is noisy, wiggle it to see if it is loose and has play.

indynic

Not meaning to bring up an old post, but I just swapped my AC Clutch, Pulley and Coil today and it went as well as one could expect. My '06 has 130k on the clock.

The information contained in this thread was outstanding. In planning to do this, I made sure to have long length retaining ring pliers, that part was a PITA. Thanks for the wealth of info. Hopefully, I will be able to enjoy some cold AC for a good long while.

paschal

Hello everyone. Just wanted to drop in with a few comments on this thread.

For the past couple of years for the A/C to engage on rare occasions I was having to hit the A/C button a couple of times, then for weeks no more trouble. Over the past few days, it has not worked 90% of the time, but when it did kick in it was pretty cold, so did not give a second thought to freon or pressures. Been all over the internet chasing this and so many forums where the people answering questions knew less than those asking them. One google search brought up this thread. I was quite impressed as to how it evolved into just about replacing the entire system in such a competent manner. My car is the same as the thread start, a 2007 civic LX. It has a manual transmission.

The problem surely pointed to the relay and the relay diagram showed me where to find it. The dealer would not tell me this morning. When I got home a couple of hours ago and let the engine cool a bit, I swapped it out, cranked it up, hit the button and got cold air right away. Tried it a dozen more times, and so far so perfect.

EZONE and everyone else here, can not thank you enough. Hopefully tomorrow will be a much more pleasant day in the car.

Paschal

B16racereg6

Wish I saw this today before I paid some monkey to try and recharge my ac. Swapped relays and bam compressor works fans don't... That guy got me for a 100$ I live and learn now my car needs a charge because he sucked most the freon out jumping the compressor ! Oh well you live and learn!

Great thread I hope it's a sticky some place!

rshep

I ohmed the 3 red wires on top of the alt. The middle one I got 4 ohms. What does this tell me?

ezone

Center (red?) wire in the plug feeds power to the clutch field coil.

If you ohm tested between that wire and ground, that seems pretty close to ok if the unit was at operating temp. (Actual spec is more like 3.15-3.45 ohms @68 degrees F, test lead using ground right on the compressor body.)

If you jumper battery power to that center terminal it should engage the clutch.


HTH

mammothman777

Hi. I have a 2008 honda civic and lately I have started having intermittent issues with the AC turning off when its hot out and after the car heats up.

When everything is working correctly:
-fans on when clutch is on
-13.7 V on the center clutch lead when clutch is spinning
-0 V on 2 outer cables when clutch is spinning
-0 V on n the center clutch lead when clutch is not spinning
-12 V on 2 outer cables when clutch is not spinning

When it is not working properly
--fans on constantly
-13.7 V on the center clutch lead, clutch not spinning
-0 V on the 2 outer leads

I replaced the clutch a few days ago. How does the thermal limiter work? Would there be voltage on the clutch lead if the thermal limiter was triggered? Could it be a shimming/Spacer issue? I reused the same clutch and pulley.

ezone

Wait, what? What exactly happened here?

Sure, the gap adjustment is critical.


Sounds like the problem is at the clutch.

mammothman777

Oops, meant I replaced the coil but used the same clutch and pulley. There was only one shim and I put it back so taking it out would leave no shims.

ezone

Ohm check your coil, it should be something like around 3.5 ohms give or take a little.

Power up the clutch coil (12v+) without the engine running.

When the clutch coil receives power, does it create a magnetic field you can feel? (Just to make sure it's actually working....will a screwdriver get drawn toward it?)

Now push on the outer ring of the clutch plate with your fingers, see if it will now stick to the pulley and stay there. This is usually a good clue the gap is too wide.

The spec for the air gap between the clutch plate and the pulley is 0.5mm +/- 0.15mm.
I set this up using a dial indicator, not feeler gauges. Trying to use feelers on a worn dished and grooved clutch is not very accurate.


HTH