johndeerebones

Downloading now, will take 30 or 40 minutes on my dsl, but thanks alot man. That is an awesome find!!!!

DJFCivic

Should have mentioned that this is the WHOLE manual along with its viewing software, and to expect some d/l time, but it's worth the wait - I gained a lot of insight from it as it also includes some conceptual info (such as the critera for the automatic upshift / downshift points).

johndeerebones

Doesn't have hydraulic flow like I hoped, but it is an awesome manual. When I rebuilt my b18 in my Integra someone got me a complete manual for the torques for it. It was similar, sure is nice to have a real tech manual for any car you own, not some cheap haynes from the zone, the real deal....

johndeerebones

Correction it DID have hydraulic schematics, they were just hard to find THANK YOU for the manual, it FINALLY got my car fixed!!!

Last weekend:

My neighbor is a gearhead like me, so I had him look at my tranny parts that have been on the bench for the last couple months. He looked at it for five seconds and found one of the plastic shaft seals on the mainshaft was burnt a bit. Long story short is, slapped in the face again.... No matter how experienced of a mechanic you are, Keep It Simple Stupid! I looked at the above mentioned manual and found that the leaky seal was on the out side of the converter. It comes out of the pump, into converter, out of converter, then to the shafts and valve bodies etc. SO it had a massive pressure leak, hence the shift troubles and slipping convertor clutch. I thought I finally found the problem and an explanatory schematic to prove it. I put it all back together, which mind you was starting to be a challenge since it had been in pieces for 3 or 4 months on the bench and had been rolled over and over trying to find the problem. Once I got it together I put it back in the car, which is getting really easy, it has a zipper by now. I know what tools I need where etc. Anyway, got it all done and got in the car and started it up. GUESS WHAT? It wouldn't even shift past R. It had P and R, then the shifter bound up. First I flew off the handle and told my wife I wanted to push it into the road and pour gas on it and light it! She stopped me because we bought the car broke and I planned to fix it, this is over a year ago, so it is nothing but a money pit and time taker to this point...

This weekend:

I cooled down a bit, then dropped the right side strut from the tower and dropped the right side of the cradle, the side and front mounts and the exhaust and was able to drop it down enough to get the end cover off the tranny. I thought I found the problem, the park pawl was out and on top of the manual shift linkage. I fixed it, got in the car and pushed the lock in with a small flat blade and shifted it like butter. So I put it all back together. STILL NO SHIFT. My wife was standing there and I flew into cussing again for a few seconds. This is completely out of character for me. She calmed me down. I got in the car and shifted the cable back and forth as fast and hard as I could, 20 to 30 times. I told her I am bound and determined to make a mark somewhere so that I can see what is the matter with it. I dropped the cradle etc again and pulled the cover off again. It all seemed to operate fine. I layed in the floor with a light and had my wife shift it while I watched. I saw exactly what the deal was. The part that is screwed to the manual shift lever and activates the park pawl in park and reverse (yes, it is still in park when in reverse, it has a one way sprag clutch that lets it free wheel where park is). Anyway, the screw and the part that it screws through was backwards. The reason it was stopping shifting was that the screw was hitting the cover when it was in backwards. IF it had clearance it would have been fine. The price you pay for having an automatic transmission apart on the bench for that long. Don't remember the small details....

What does make me mad about the whole situation though, is that I have changed nothing since the first time I had it out, I just marred that seal up going together with it!!!! I had the parts that came out of it when I rebuilt it and the seals were like brand new, so I reinstalled one of them. It was fixed the very first time I worked on it had I done it right.... You can be sure though that the second time it went together I used TONS and TONS of transmission assembly grease so that wouldn't happen again...

green01civic

edit: deleted. sorry, will be back to fix this.

green01civic

Congrats!

Also, I've attached a hydraulic flow and power flow picture, for anyone who needs the reference in the future (in giantly-long-png format).

edit: The forum resized it to an unviewable tiny size... gimme a sec to convert them to PDF, lol.

johndeerebones

Mine is working now, see the above post. Anyway on this subject, I am running the Castrol Multi-Import fluid from Autozone and it is working fine. It seemed to be a little different than mercon, not alot though. Anyway first on the list is that it meets the Honda spec. It is 5.29 a quart, don't know how much Honda's is. What I do know is the nearest Honda dealer is 75 miles away. The nearest Autozone is 4 miles away....

green01civic

ATF Z1: Viscosity: cSt @100C=7.058, cSt @40C=29.49
Castrol Multi-Import: Viscosity: cSt @100C=8.0, cSt @40C=36.6, cP@-40C=13,000

Castrol is more viscous. No idea how that is going to change things, cause I'm not well versed in transmissions or fluid dynamics... but I can read an MSDS and draw a rough comparison between two like items .

Nearest honda dealer likely won't have any Z1 left anyway, more likely they will have the DW1 replacement (which IMO appears to be a good fluid for the few hundred miles I've been using it).

johndeerebones

Its really thick at -40*c! Sure am glad that doesn't even remotely apply to me. On the viscosity, a little thicker possibly could be a tad better in my app, as in the hard parts, as in the pump and the valve body has 142000 miles on them so they had a tad bit of wear there, not much though. Thicker oil can make the pump do more work....

DJFCivic

Hi johndeerebones,
For a moment there I thought that maybe you needed something beyond the schematics in the manual, glad it all worked out for you in the end, bravo to you on your success!!

If the weather breaks here by the time the weekend gets here, I too will be using the Castrol multi-import fluid.

green01civic

Here's the new Honda DW1:Viscosity: cSt @100C=6.835, cSt @40C=25.09

I was thinking since the clutches are somewhat delicate and prone to burning/glazing, and this is less viscous, the pump will be able to have a higher flow rate, and be more efficient at moving around the ATF, dissipating the heat more effectively.

I was also assuming, gearbox noted his trans slips when cold but not when warm, and so that would imply it is likely slipping when more viscous (cold) and working properly when thinner (hot)... so if that is the case, I'd imagine then the lower viscosity when cold could actually help prevent slipping when cold (by the same logic).

What do you think? I'm interested to know!

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

the problem is the z1 is already very thin in the cold, which means it gets even thinner when hot. dw1 may work okay when cold, but turn too thin when hot and get the opposite problem of slipping while hot. that can destroy the trans even faster.

wrencher

Nice post!

Think i'll be dropping and opening mine too...will this tranny shift into gear without any selenoids? not talking about quality or upshifts etc. just actual mechanical engagement off any forward gear or reverse. Mine intermittently will not shift into P or D and yet when it does ....it works/shifts flawlessly. plugged strainer? bad selenoid?. ( always has good oil/clean.). is there some way of reverse flushing the strainer trou some presure tap hole?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

no way to reverse flush, the junk is in that filter forever. even with the filter removed, you would not be able to clean it off. if you have trouble putting in gear, could be a transmission range switch issue or something with the shifter itself, possibly the gear selector or cable.

wrencher

wrencher-one who wrenches for a living! nuf said!

Well, a small update for anyone who cares or... hopefully helpful for somebody.

So i unplugged all tranny selenoids when it was working correctly and it still engaged D and R .
Nonetheless I removed the PCS and bench checked operation and cleaned it as it is about a 15 min operation . same for shift selenoids.

problem with intermittent slip or no D (3,2) and R still there. noticed whine (much like power steering whine) when problem present.
I had a hunch it was a strainer blockage problem so drained tranny and tried to "access" strainer with inspection camera (both through dipstick and drain hole. Let just say i got to see a lot off gears and bolts but not much else. Worth a try, no?
So i dont hijack this post i will start my own- with the details.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

might be related but on an older accord that wouldnt shift smoothly between P and R, it turned out to be a bad shift cable (that goes from auto shifter to the trans under the car). i ended up spraying a ton of pb blaster in the cable and it works like new again. still waiting for the smell to go away tho lol. eventually it will need a new cable tho, but at least the shifter is able to move out of park again.

carbuddy

Sounds like a great skill to know how to do, however I am a guy who likes to have someone else do the work because I have no idea how to do it. What are your thoughts about buying warranties for your vehicles?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

waste of money

johndeerebones

second that

conn1978

I know this topic is old but someone may still find use for it. The problem with the Honda transmissions from around 98 to about 06 is the preasure regulator valve. Sonnax.com has articles relating to this issue that are very informative. They also have a fix. What happens in the tranny's is when the car comes to idle the PRV will stick, preventing fluid to flow to the converter and cooler causing the converter to overheat and also affecting clutch failure. Even if you rebuild with a new converter, if you do not address the presure regulator valve issue, you will likely end up with this reoccurring tranny failure. Check out the Tech Issues on Sonax.com for more information. They also have an O-Ring end plug kit:
Valve bore plugs on Honda/Acura valve bodies wear and allow critical CPC and solenoid feed oil to leak to exhaust, leading to low CPC pressures and soft or inconsistent shifts.
Sonnax O-ringed end plug kit 98892-01K replaces the worn OE end plugs and restores critical circuit pressures at the CPC A and B valves, shift valve C and LU shift valve. The kit also includes a 15mm interference fit end plug 98892-03 that does not use an O-ring. It will fit either the lock-up control or shift valve D bores.
I hope this helps.

nsrhonda89

This is not related to our transmission. Its for Honda V6 transmissions.
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/24-199...scovery-4.html

conn1978

Yes it is. This problem and this valve work in many of the four and five speed Honda automatic transmissions. They all have the same general issues related back to fluid flow at low RPM. Read the articles. I rebuilt an 01 Civic 1.7 tranny that had 2nd and 3rd gear clutch issues. This resolved the problem long term as opposed to short term. For the longest time Honda would replace an over heated converter claiming that was the only problem and six monthes to a year later you would have to go back to the dealership for the same problem and again, they would only replace the converter. The root of the problem is with fluid flow problems. Increase the low RPM fluid flow and you have fewer failures like overheated converters and burned clutch discs. When the valve sticks at low RPM, no fluid flows to the converter, cooler and lube and relief valve passages. With no lubrication, parts wear faster, passages get clogged and parts fail.

HondaLover1981

Johndeer I Love u for posting this trial and error on the Tranny i had this just happen to me yes i know its 2015 and the car is 14 years old but i got mine for a 1000 as i work construction so i run all over the fukin place doin roofin and sidin so gas mileage is a must and it ran good for 2 years with the whine on left of motor behind the battery and the high rev's in 1st and 2nd when putting the bricks to her most times all in all been decent lil car and and mid december last year **** slipped hard in snow storm as i live in ny a hour north of syracuse and redlined like a mfer in 4th i stopped in parkin lot of dealership i used to work at when i detailed cars for 8 years and shifted to couple gears while holdin in the brake pedal and it started to go again i more or less was just tryin to get the goddamn thing home and a mile from home the mfer slipped gears again i had to drive it in 2nd all the way home got it in my driveway (Thank the good lord) the mfer wont move a inch now still starts up after sitting for the 5 months i been tryin to figure out what to do with it i really need the fukr to run again should i buy a refurbished tranny and swap it as i dont work on my rides anymore dont got the damn time for it with new kid i had in feb and my job ( been driving the old ladys dodge caliber RT AWD back and forth to work) what else should i replace besides tranny? pump, solenoids, inline tranny filter all thee above lol not lookin to put 2 grand into this thing or should i sell as is?

ThomasSchroeder

Once a transmission has failed and was rebuilt, is there an expectation that the underlying problem was corrected and the rebuilt transmission should last longer, or does a rebuild simply reset your transmission to fail again in another 70,000 to 150,000 miles? Thank you.

Wankenstein

If it's been rebuilt ask for the parts list envoice to find out which parts were replaced. If you plan to get it rebuilt ask for a parts list in advance. As for how long it will last is anyone's guess. A decent shop should warranty it for at least a year.