YYZRush747

I found about a quarter of an inch of water in the spare-tire area of my trunk yesterday. It rained quite a bit on Saturday plus I drove through pretty heavy rain two weekends ago for 1.5 hours. The pressboard trunk thing (brown cardboard type thing) shows some water damage on the right (passenger side) plus the felt carpet piece was moist (not SOAKED) in that area. I took everything out of the trunk and checked to see where I could feel water. I noticed more moisture on the right side which corresponds to the wetness I felt. 3 years back, a neighbour backed into my passenger side rear fender/bumper which caused the passenger side tail light to crack (it was replaced by the body shop). It doesn't seem to be wet in the area of the light and I saw no water enter the car when I tested it yesterday. I highly doubt there was any damage to the seams as the impact was very light. I noticed what I assume are drainage hoses from the sunroof on both sides which lead out somewhere behind the bumper. Both were bone dry.

My thoughts are that the touchless car wash's high pressure water somehow made it's way into the trunk or there is indeed a poor seal at the passenger side tail light. We had one wicked storm this summer which required me to drive through high water (maybe half to 1 foot at most). The amount of water in the trunk plus the general lack of surface rust back there makes me think this is not a constant thing. I dried out the trunk with towels and will monitor it after the next rain to see if anything has accumulated again.

Any ideas? I checked out some of the previous threads about water in the trunk but my situation doesn't seem to be from blocked sunroof drains or tail light gaskets. The rear passenger floor is not wet.

ezone

I'd say to figure out where it comes in first.
Remove the standing water. Remove carpets from trunk areas.
You might even coat everything in talc (ordinary bath powder, or maybe Right Guard deodorant spray) so any leakage will show a trail of evidence you can see.

Use a garden hose to soak the outside of the car.
Look for leaks from taillights, lid or hatch seals, sunroof drain tubes, etc.

If you don't find any leaks that way, then you can probably assume it's coming up from the bottom through body seam gaps or maybe rust.

Same deal again, I'd use a powder to show the evidence, then wait for a nice rain to drive in. Look in wheelwells and such.

Once you figure out where the water comes in at, then you can deal with fixing it.

HTH

YYZRush747

So it rained last night and this morning (I drove in the rain). The paper towel I put in the spare tire area is wet. I don't feel water or moisture on the passenger side area below the tail-light which makes me think the water may be coming in elsewhere. There seems to be a bit of moisture in the area where the bottom of the trunk joins the passenger side fender (if that makes any sense). I read about someone who had a similar issue and they had leakage at the top where the seal is. I also notice some beige coloured caulking around the body seams on the passenger side (but not the drivers side). It looks to be from the factory however it is only on one side... The car was never in a rear-end accident as far as I know

See this thread regarding the location of the Accord's leak: http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=25927

ezone

Confirmed that it still leaks. Still at square one. No ground gained.If you had coated the areas in a powder, you would have the evidence you needed to narrow down or pinpoint the source of the leak.
Um, but that's not your car.

YYZRush747

I did some investigation this evening and have arrived at the conclusion that the passenger side tail light is NOT leaking. I tried to remove it by removing the 3 bolts however I could not get it out more than half an inch (I suspect I have to remove the bumper). I don't feel any water in the area where the gasket meets the trunk which is a good sign.

The driver's side is another story, there is a sizable pooling of water right below the flapper vent on the inner drivers-side (see this image). I suspect I will need to caulk around where the plastic meets the inside of the trunk. The sunroof drain hoses on both sides are dry so that's ruled out.

ezone

Now you're getting somewhere!

I don't see any powder yet. I was serious about powder, it really speeds up the inspection process (and might smell good too!) Gotta put it on dry surfaces though.

That vent flapper is an odd place for water to enter, mainly because it's completely covered from the outside (unless you are missing the bumper cover or plastic trim out of the wheel well area), plus the flaps can be open at any time to let air vent outward .......

You may have only found where the water has pooled, but not found the source yet.

I'd be inclined to suspect more about body seams in the wheel well and maybe the fuel door areas.

Have you removed that large black (rubber/padded?) cover and checked behind it yet?

Garden hose spray the inside of the wheel well, and spray upward from underneath, same manner that water would be slung upward from a spinning tire, then look for fresh water that has entered?


Does the car have a sunroof? Is there a drain tube in that area that comes from the roof pillar? It hasn't detached anywhere near that area??

----------------------------


If yours is anything like ours, then you probably would need to remove the bumper cover to access the last bolt for each taillight, but if it isn't leaking there then don't mess with it.

YYZRush747

That photo is not mine, it's just some kind of trunk with a similar flapper type thing. Mine as no padded cover. As I mentioned, the sunroof drain doesn't feel wet nor does the area directly around it. I didn't do much investigation tonight as it was getting dark/I have work to do. From what I could see, I tried to stick my fingers into different crevices around the trunk to see if I could feel water but didn't notice anything. I don't see any way for water to get into the lower portion where the tire is other than to roll in from the flat surfaces or through body seams. The odd thing is I don't see much rust in the area (the jack looks ok, as does spare tire rim) which makes me think it is not a heavy/constant leak but rather a few drops every hour or so. Also, the water is coming in exclusively behind the trunk liner (the part that goes around the entire trunk perimeter) as my plastic covering I have on top of my carpet liner is not wet. I didn't want to put power in the trunk as I don't want my car to smell like a baby's diaper bag LOL How would it help trace a leak if the water moves around?

ezone

Oh. Drat.


Ok, so are you assuming the water only comes in while driving, and not from standing in the rain? (Gotta establish which way it enters!)
If you found water standing on the flat area under the flap, then it's probably just running right over into the spare tire well.

Many body leaks are such that you just can't see how water could possibly enter, because water will creep and wick. It can travel a long distance before it ends up where you can see it.

Spray from spinning tires can actually throw water with quite a bit of force. If there are any gaps in the sealer, or any rust holes, it can and will enter if there is a way in. (That's why I said spray upward with a garden hose sprayer) Much wind at road speeds will cause water to move too.

Once water has found its way inside the body of the car, then simple gravity usually carries it to the lowest points.

How about Right Guard? Any spray can antiperspirant/deodorant like that should be a spray powder.

FLOUR! (might make more mess when it gets wet than powder though.)

We actually have spray cans of leak tracing powder at work, no scent at all. I have no idea where you'd get it though. When it runs out, we plan on using cheap spray deodorant.

You coat the areas around the puddle to see how it got there. Water entering will leave a trail through it, easily visible (if you got it in the right place). Dry out the puddle first, of course. Check often so the puddle doesn't need to collect.

YYZRush747

It rained again today. I had put a small rolled up towel under the black flapper thing a few days ago. When I checked the trunk when I got to work everything was dry except for the towel. Now I've got my source and will be caulking the perimeter of the black plastic where it meets the body inside the trunk. Taking a look under the rear, I can see the outside portion is directly in the line of fire for water that is propelled backwards from the tires. The seal looks to be foam and has a small kink that I am assuming is the water's point of entry. The water pools below the vent and then rolls into the trunk area.

Inside of trunk (behind trunk liner on driver's side)

Outside view of this area (under the car)

Small "kink" in the foam. Water hits this area and probably gets in here.

Ghost Rider

OP,

And not to slight anything EZ has posted, he's infinitely more knowledgeable about Hondas than I


Not too long my trunk was leaking (04 EX)

Get a flash light, crawl into the trunk and shut the lid, have someone hose down the car, locate the leak

Then you'll know exactly where the intrusion is, and what needs to be done to fix it

Anything less is simply speculating


Ghost

ezone

^^I don't think I would trust my kid or my GF to let me out. LOL

Good idea though, fer sher.
I guess I was thinking of how much work I sometimes do by myself before I bother to enlist help.


EDIT: Oh, new pics?


What is above this vent? Looks like little trails above it. I see the single "drip" of black goo, but it looks like there are several other trails to the sides of it.

YYZRush747

This afternoon I got down and dirty with the car. I sealed the area where the flapper meets the body on all sides inside the trunk at the bottom/sides on the outside. I had a chance to really check out the underside of the rear and didn't see any obvious rust that may be contributing the problem.

Ezone, the area above the flapper thing is just part of the car's body. It's painted black in that area (as is the other side). I don't see any water getting in around the area.

YYZRush747

YYZRush747

UPDATE

There is still a small trickle leak which causes water to roll down and settle at the lowest point just below the vent flapper thing. There is no leak at the sunroof drain as it's bone dry. I put powder down and soaked the outside of the car. Reading the previous posts about water leaks in the trunk led me to examine the fuel filler area. There is some evidence of water leaking in this area on the inside (water droplets). I' did some sealing in the area around where the black plastic fuel filler flange meets the body of the car. I'm just waiting for the silicone to set. I tried to seal the interior area as well however it is very hard to get in there due to only about a 3-4 inch clearance between the side panel and the inside framework of the trunk.

Tragedy

iTrader: (10)

Same issue with my car. Here is some all data on the issue.

SYMPTOM

Water in the trunk.

PROBABLE CAUSE

Lack of sealer at various seams.

CORRECTIVE ACTION

Apply 3m Ultra Pro Seam Sealer to the affected seam(s).

PARTS INFORMATION

3m Ultra Pro Seam Sealer: 3m P/N 051135-08302



I cant upload pictures but you want to look for seams similar to that of a caulking gun. Follow them along the left and right side of the vehicle. These areas seem to be the most affected.

Clean the areas well then dry. Apply 3m seam sealer and allow 15 to 20 minutes to cure.

Retest areas with water simulation. Use a bucket, pitcher, something controllable.

If there are no more leaks re assemble floor panel and spare etc.

Basically what it is saying is that the guy who sealed the seams did not do a proper job to endure the years of wear.

So you have to do the job like a pro.

ezone

Man, I looked and looked for that bulletin. More than twice.

It does not come up searching under BODY section at all.
I finally (after seeing your post) entered keyword WATER and found it.

Damn.
I sometimes hate the kids that run Hondas websites. They have never had to actually fix cars with their info.

YYZRush747

I need to take pictures to demonstrate what I did as I cannot seem to figure out how to describe the area that I was working in. My automotive body vocabulary is not good enough.

Inside the trunk showing the fuel filler area. I sealed the whole length of the bottom in this area. This protusion joins the wheel well area and there is factory sealant at the joint (look at the part closer to the camera) - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...019_213020.jpg

Exterior fuel filler area. I used silicone to seal around the black flange very carefully so it looks clean/neat - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...019_213136.jpg

YYZRush747

I went into the trunk while my dad sprayed the driver's side of the car. Should have done this sooner. The only place I can see water is getting in at the gas filler door release but it's a slow trickle. Where the mechanism enters the fuel filler area there was space for water to slowly work it's way into the trunk through where the other side of the release enters the trunk. Inside the trunk is the cable that runs to the release lever. I sealed that area nicely this afternoon. I think this should finally solve the problem. I may not have even had a leak in the area I sealed yesterday but oh well. The $6 tube of Permatex clear silicone has been put to good use in the last 3 weeks. LOL

The biggest part of the black piece is on the interior of the trunk. The cable pulls the small plastic thing in which allows the gas door to pop open. Over time I guess the seal between the inside/outside has degraded to the point that water is able to slip in.

ezone

Is the seal missing from between the cable and the body?

YYZRush747

As far as I could see no however it must have become degraded/cracked if water is getting in. The car was built in 2003 so I guess it's unheard of for them to go bad. I cannot figure out how to take the thing apart otherwise I'd try to replace the seal.

ezone

On the cars over here, you'd grab the end of the housing from inside the trunk, and twist it (anticlockwise?) 90 degrees to release it from the fuel door pocket.

Parts diagram for one of our civics shows the seal is available by itself. Probably available for yours too.

HTH

YYZRush747

The PN for the seal is 73219-693-95. It took me a long time to find it on Majestic Honda's site as I didn't think to look under the "Trunk Lid" category. I'll call a few dealers and see what they charge. Considering each individual air filter box screw was like $4-5 here in Ontario (Canada) I'm sure it'll be something ridiculous. Keep in mind, Canadian Honda part prices are way above what US dealers charge. If I go down to Niagara Falls in the next few weeks I'll see about picking one up. Although, as long as it's not leaking I'd prefer not to mess with it.

ezone

I didn't realize you were in Canada.

EL?


torontohondaparts.com/
$1.94

YYZRush747

The Acura EL was only sold in Canada. It was replaced by the Acura CSX.

YYZRush747

Update to the thread. I still was having water pooling in the area below the vent flapper thing. It is the lowest point so that's understandable. I took the car to the collision shop that did the work and they had a guy go into the trunk while another guy powerwashed the outside. They found a small leak at the body seam on the driver's side in front of the rear windshield. It was a very slow trickle leak which explains why I didn't immediately notice water unless the car sat in the rain for a few hours. They sealed up the area on the inside and outside and sent me on my way.

Fast forward to 2 days later, it rained again...still some water in the trunk. I had small tear in my weather stripping at the top edge of the trunk that I superglued. There was still a small area that I missed and it seems water was getting in there, slowly....I through some silicone over the little tear and covered it with duct tape to keep it dry. The next day I removed the tape and it appeared to be water-tight. I've had no water (and trust me, I checked a few times). I'll keep an eye on it. For now, I think the trunk is water-tight!

YYZRush747

update:


My car is back from the body shop for the second time. They could not locate the leak that presents as water in the photo in post #11. They said they completely soaked down the car with high pressure water but no water is visible to the guy in the trunk. It is only after the car sits for a bit that the water is pooling. I've already sealed the area around the gas filler neck (very well), gas tank cover release, and the vent flapper. There is absolutely no way I can see water getting in neither can the body shop guys.

From my own point of view it's very hard to tell if the water is coming in from in front or behind where the pool is. As I drive, the water can roll around and leave trails in different areas.

ezone

Powder.

YYZRush747

They sprayed rust-proofing stuff on the inside of the trunk body so it's all greasy (and it smells like kerosene) so I don't know how well the powder will work. I tried using it before but it didn't really work. All I had was a bunch of wet powdered metal with no clear trail showing the water's entry point.

YYZRush747

Another Update

So the trunk is still leaking (less but still). It is not leaking at the tail-light/bumper/vent flap/wheel well, that is confirmed. When it rained, there is water droplets visible in the section closure to the front of the car (near the gas filler area) from what I can say. Ezone, I cannot get powder into the area so please don't suggest that. If you look at the previous photos(post#17), the gas filler area is silicone sealed so I cannot imagine water is getting in around the black plastic area on the outside area of the filler area. Is it possible that water is getting into elsewhere (perhaps the roof vents/trim?) I took out the rear window surround previously and tried to seal the holes (and in the process broke it off as I did not realize the trim piece is 1 whole piece front to back). The break is not the issue I don't think. I have not touched the other parts of the trim FYI.

ezone

I can't really add much at this point that I haven't already said....

The way I see it, you have to figure out where the water is entering and how it gets there. Whatever it takes. Flashlight and mirror....?

Was this leaking when it rains, or do you have to drive it to make it leak?
Water will usually follow paths downward as gravity is in effect.....remove trims to view areas like around the rear glass, and panel seams?


If something you did made the leak get slower, then revisit whatever you did and do it some more?