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Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it ForumIf you've got a problem you just can't figure out, a noise you can't diagnose, or a Check Engine Light that won't go away, ask about it here!
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Brake Shoe Wear
2004 Civic VP. A/T, 80k miles, rear drum brakes.
Can hear scraping during braking (only) on right rear wheel. I haven't pulled drum to inspect but my assumption is worn brake shoes, worn spring(s) or possibily caliper issue. Can the car be driven as is for a few days or does this need to be fixed right away?
Should the drums be turned/lathed during drum brake kit and shoes replacement?
I"ve only replaced a drum kit, shoes and caliper once on my son's 6th gen about four months ago but didn't get drums turned..seem to be working well. I'm busy all his week so I may bring it to a local mechanic.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Oct 15, 2017 at 08:24 PM.
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Pull suspect brake drum off. Check shoe lining thickness and be amazed they look nearly new.
Look in the outer rings of the drum for evidence (shiny) of rust buildup and subsequent contact with the backing plate.
EDIT: I almost never resurface drums unless they are out of round, if they went metal to metal, or have gouge damage.
Rear shoes on those cars typically squeak while pumping the brake pedal due to lack of lube between shoe web and backing plate
Light grind noise could be from surface rust or brake dust accumulation, sometimes noise is not detrimental to brake operation and safety
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Originally Posted by ezone
Pull suspect brake drum off. Check shoe lining thickness and be amazed they look nearly new.
Look in the outer rings of the drum for evidence (shiny) of rust buildup and subsequent contact with the backing plate.
EDIT: I almost never resurface drums unless they are out of round, if they went metal to metal, or have gouge damage.
Rear shoes on those cars typically squeak while pumping the brake pedal due to lack of lube between shoe web and backing plate
Light grind noise could be from surface rust or brake dust accumulation, sometimes noise is not detrimental to brake operation and safety
Drum brakes do not have calipers
Thanks Ezone. Will inspect soon.
Terminology is wheel cylinder (not caliper)..I got it now.
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Originally Posted by mikey1
i have the exact same issue just started last week.....havn't had a chance to look at it yet
I plan to remove drum, spray internals with brake cleaner, measure shoe pad thickness and take pics, use brass brush on rusted areas of drum, lithium grease backing plate areas and inspect for wheel cylinder leakage.
I plan to remove drum, spray internals with brake cleaner, measure shoe pad thickness and take pics, use brass brush on rusted areas of drum, lithium grease backing plate areas and inspect for wheel cylinder leakage.
you keep me updated and i will do the same.....i plan on ripping it apart on saturday
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
My son (Little Dong ) and I pulled the drums off both sides today. I used a brash brushed on the drums inside and out and sprayed brake cleaner on them. Ezone you're correct the shoe-pad thickness looks good..measured 5 mm on all four. We sprayed cleaner on the internals and saw no signs of wheel cylinder leakage. No loss of brake fluid in master cylinder reservoir.
I now know that it's the left rear that is scraping (sat in back seat for test drive) after cleaning drums and brake internals. The left drum compared to right has more rust on the internal side. Where the brake shoe contacts the drum there are several block (embedded) spots that would not come off during cleaning. The right rear didn't have any of these black spots. By touch the black spots feel smooth but not sure if they are the source of the scraping noise? May try replacing left drum with either a new (Dorman) aftermarket, used OEM from salvage yard or getting it tturned if I can find a shop.
Should I remove the shoes and lube backing plate before moving forward on the drum options listed above?
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Originally Posted by ezone
Lookie here at the red circles and the shiny spots that have been rubbed clean. There are probably matching shiny spots on the backing plate where this has made contact
The spots were on the friction surface..it seem to be embedded rust but it was smooth to the touch. I'lll pull it off again and post pics. I will also check more intently at the spots you circled and on the backing plate when I pull the drum again. I did brass brush and spray the areas you circled however I can't recall exactly what it looked like. Will swap sides. Thanks.
We also plan to bleed the brake fluid..it's probably never been replaced
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
What's the star wheel adjustment prodecure please?
Same as any other rear brake shoe adjustment. Did you mess with it at all?
IF the replacement drum is the same (never been machined) and OE, there's a good chance the shoe adjustment will probably be OK the way it is now.
Slide drum on. If it slides on without force that's good (may have to move the shoes up or down though)..... bolt the wheel on and see if the pedal travel feels normal.
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Originally Posted by ezone
Same as any other rear brake shoe adjustment. Did you mess with it at all?
The star wheel adjustment is needed on the right side from when we first inspected rears. Dumb-*** me wanted to check for wheel cylinder leakage and thought it would be a good idea to press the brake pedal while the right drum was off. I didn't have the forethought that the drum limits wheel cylinder and shoe travel. Thus, the wheel cylinder boot popped off, internals shifted and we couldn't get the drum to slip on easily. We ended up adjusting the star wheel to drawal the shoes in some and slipped right on.
I learned my lesson and didn't press the brake for the left side when drum was off.
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Oh. Hell. Don't do that.
Did you get the wheel cylinder reassembled correctly or replace it?
If you got it assembled right then it probably shouldn't have needed any starwheel or other messing-with other than jockeying the shoes back into position.
Also if it popped the cylinder apart, did you bleed the air out yet?
Random goggle image for example
It's hard to explain
Assemble shoes. See if drum fits. If it fits loose then adjust starwheel to expand the shoes until the drum ALMOST doesn't fit on. Back off the star a couple-few notches until the drum slips on easily but without slop.
Check pedal travel.
If you shove the drum all the way on while the shoes are too tight then you may not be able to back off the star wheel to loosen the shoes.
It's a trick to get the self adjuster arm to release so the wheel can be turned backwards while the drum is in place.
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Re: Brake Shoe Wear
Originally Posted by ezone
Did you get the wheel cylinder reassembled correctly or replace it?
Seems to be. We tapped on it lightly with a rubber mallot and it went back into position and it's not leaking. I didn't press the brake pedal all the way..maybe halfway then stopped. Also, when we put the wheel back on we spun bt hand and then I pressed the brake pedal and it stopped well.. of course this doesn't assimilate driving conditions though.
Originally Posted by ezone
If you got it assembled right then it probably shouldn't have needed any starwheel or other messing-with other than jockeying the shoes back into position.
We did try to jockey the shoes around and it almost fit but, needed a slight star wheel adjustment to get the drum on easily.
Originally Posted by ezone
Also if it popped the cylinder apart, did you bleed the air out yet?
Yes.. but just that cylinder. We intend to bleed the entire system soon.
Originally Posted by ezone
It's hard to explain
Assemble shoes. See if drum fits. If it fits loose then adjust starwheel to expand the shoes until the drum ALMOST doesn't fit on. Back off the star a couple-few notches until the drum slips on easily but without slop.
Check pedal travel.
If you shove the drum all the way on while the shoes are too tight then you may not be able to back off the star wheel to loosen the shoes.
It's a trick to get the self adjuster arm to release so the wheel can be turned backwards while the drum is in place.
Was kind of bored today so i pulled my rear drums off just to see, first time they have ever been removed from the vehicle,
my problem is obviously worn/shot brake shoes, it doesn't make the grinding noise all the time, kind of intermittent, i will replace them......i guess i can't complain after 12 years and 340,000kms
) and I pulled the drums off both sides today. I used a brash brushed on the drums inside and out and sprayed brake cleaner on them. Ezone you're correct the shoe-pad thickness looks good..measured 5 mm on all four. We sprayed cleaner on the internals and saw no signs of wheel cylinder leakage. No loss of brake fluid in master cylinder reservoir.
