Rep Power: 0

Hi all.
My cicvic won't start unless I spray fuel starter into the intake.
Once it starts, it runs fine, idles fine and won't die out.
Once I turn it off it won't start again unless I spray fuel starter.
What could be the problem? any bad sensors?
Thanks,

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

Got CEL? What codes?

Got data list? What is ECT temp during the no start?

Got fuel pump action while it won't start?

 
Rep Power: 0

There is no check engine light.
When I turn on the ignition I hear a click (pump relay?) and a hum (I guess the pump) for just a few seconds.
There was a previous code that had to do with evaporator something?.
Don't have data list. I don't know what ECT temp is, don't know how to measure. If it has to do with ambient temperature, it's 90 degrees out here.
Thanks for your help.

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

To see the ECT (engine coolant temperature sensor) you would need a scanner that can display live operating data. The value needs to be accurate in order for the computer to inject the correct amount of fuel. If it's incorrect, it can be damn hard or impossible to start.

Of course that's not the only possibility, it's just something I thought of that's easy to look at if you have a scanner or something that can let you see it.

 
Rep Power: 0

It could very well be the problem.
If I spray fuel starter in the intake, the car starts and keeps running.
It's just starting it. Every time I turn the engine off and try to start it again it needs the fuel starter.
Where is the ECT located?
Thanks,

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

It's a small 2 wire sensor on TOP of the upper hose neck.

This pic: finger is pointing to the wires for the ECT sensor

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/a...4&d=1333462674

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the picture.
I will check the voltage going to the ECT and the Ohms resistance with my multi-meter.
Maybe there is no voltage going to it or there is no continuity.
I'll post the results
Thanks again.

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

What's far more important (to me) is finding out what exactly the computer is "seeing" as far as sensor inputs and outputs.

You can probably buy a code reader (or a phone app+dongle) that can display some basic live data for $20 or less.



Wait.....If you unplug that ECT sensor the computer should sub a value (failsafe) that should at least let the car start and run. (yes it will turn on the check engine light because it's unplugged)
Maybe not start with perfect ease but if that lets it start when it wouldn't run at all before, that would indicate you're probably on the right path.

 
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Hi ezone.
I found this inexpensive scanner on Ebay for $15, free shipping. Code Reader New MS309 OBD2 OBDII Car Diagnostic Tool.
Is it worth it or should I not waste my money on it?
Thanks,

CLC

 
Rep Power: 0

Hi ezone.
I disconnected the ECT and the engine would not start.
Measured 6.45V from the connector. There was a 345 Ohms resistance at the terminals of the ECT.
Sprayed fuel starter in the intake and it started right up.
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

I cannot comment on this.


Do you have a graph showing resistance/temperature for that particular sensor? What temp would 345 ohms be equivalent to?

Regardless, that still doesn't tell you what the computer thinks the coolant temperature is.

Maaaybe ECT isn't the right direction.
At least you know it fires when you add extra fuel so you know it should be related to fuel delivery, but without more info it's hard to go beyond that without guessing

I'd want to check several things on the car myself to figure what's actually happening.
Immobilizer?
Grounds
PCM main relay 1/2 control
pump operation
datalist for inconsistent values, possible clues
tpsv
Injectors, power and trigger
Fuel quality
Probably more

 
Rep Power: 0

Just thinking out loud. The pump works because once it starts it keeps running, idles fine and it accelerates with no problem.
Crankshaft sensor new, camshaft sensor new, new timing belt...
Only to start needs extra fuel in the intake.
What sensor could be involved in controlling initial fuel delivery into the intake?
thanks,

CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

ECT/MAP/TPS come to mind....but MAP is probably ok if it runs ok, and TPS is kinda ruled out if this car has auto transmission and the shifter isn't stuck in park.

 
Rep Power: 0

Is there such a thing as a "weak" pump which will not deliver initial fuel?
Where can I check for fuel pressure with just the ignition key to the "on" position?
I would like to just loosen up a valve, turn the ignition key "on" and see if fuel comes out.
Thanks,
CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

Logically: the car runs, therefore the fuel pump works.

Question then becomes, is the pump turned on at the necessary time? (during cranking)
A simple test light could answer that.

 
Rep Power: 518

When did this problem begin?

Did it start happening immediately after some work was done?

 
Rep Power: 0

When I turn the ignition "on" there is a click around the glove box and a hum for a couple of seconds.
Could it be the fuel pressure regulator?

 
Rep Power: 518

You hear the main relay and the pump relay click behind the glovebox and the pump runs for about 2 seconds, pump relay probably clicks again as it turns off.

 
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Yes, it does click.
What's the function of the evap control solenoid? I think my friend may have gotten that code on his scanner a month ago when he came to give me a hand.
How all started: A couple of months after the crank, cam sensors and timing belt replacement. Crank sensor replaced again thinking the starting issue was it. Initially after driving for an hour I turn it off and would not re-start. Waited an hour and would start again. Then it would start and re-start every day for a week, then it would not for a couple of weeks. Now won't start at all unless fuel starter is used.

 
Rep Power: 518

There are 3 different solenoids, they control the storage and ingestion of fuel vapor (gas fumes from the gas tank) from the charcoal canister into the engine.

Should be unrelated to your starting problem, especially if code has not returned.

 
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Could the problem be a dirty throttle body? Although it looks clean when I look in there.
Will the TPS have anything with the no starting issue?
Thanks,
CLC

 
Rep Power: 518

No.

Depends on what the PCM sees.

 
Rep Power: 119

Clearly your getting fuel and air... so maybe it’s a spark issue.

Did you also replace the spark plugs when you were doing all that work? Not sure but if you have the completely wrong type of plugs maybe they have been fouling up getting worse and worse

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for your reply. It's the same plugs as beffore any work was done.
the issue is initial delivery of fuel. After it starts it runs fine.

 
Rep Power: 119

Quick way to rule out a lot of things is to direct drive the starter with key in the on position.

simple unplug the small wire from starter , prepare a single wire run that reaches from starter to the battery, preferably with a small fuse in it

make sure car is in park/neutral turn ignition to on position and then use the jumper wire to attempt to start it. Without starting fluid,,, spark from that wire. Likely would set off a fireball if you sprayed starting fluid

 
Rep Power: 0

The starter is strong...has no issues.
there is spark.
Thanks
CLC

 
Rep Power: 119

Fine to dismiss my suggestions but really think about the logic..

Your car runs in the on position but does not start in the start position...

Seeing if the car will start while the ignition stays just in the on position will eliminate a lot of variables.

Pulling your spark plugs out and checking their condition might also give a clue.

 
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I did not mean to disregard your suggestion. I did not inderstand it.
Now I think I got it. You want to see if it will start without using the key to get ignition. In the event it starts with the wire to the battery what will this indicate? What size fuse should I use? If it doesn't start what will that indicate? Thanks. CLC

 
Rep Power: 119

2,5 amp in-line fused wire works well, your just triggering the starter.

Hooking a wire directly to battery that would literally melt in your hands in a second if you shorted it to ground is what you want to prevent

If it starts right up you get to dig into a whole slew of relays and the actual ignition switch itself.

if it won’t start just cranks, then I would disconnect the alternator wire too see if it will keeping running for a minute just on battery power alone. Maybe the extra voltage of the alternator is needed by your fuel pump or other electrical item


Extreme care needed to safely disconnect the alternator, starting with disconnect battery first then taping up ends.

Personally, if it only would start on starting fluid, even with ignition bypassed and it would continue to run without the alternator adding power, then I would bite the bullet and pay to have a dealer do the diagnosis at that point.

Your problem has gotten worse, does not create a code, does not keep the engine from running, has not affected drivability or gas mileage. Very unique indeed.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the great explanation. I won't be able to get to it until Monday. I will post the results.
Thanks again.
CLC