exhaust manifold is too hot
07-13-2017
#1
Registered!!
Thread Starter
exhaust manifold is too hot
**Summary** Honda civic 2002, overheat around exhaust manifold, engine light on with two codes:
P0133 HONDA O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor
P1456 HONDA Evaporative Emissions Control
**Problem**
For quite a while I notice this Honda Civic 2002 has an overheating issue under the hood, around exhaust manifold (http://imgur.com/a/1enxT)
Yester and Today is about 85 degree, I turn on a/c, I drove about 20 miles/30 minutes to work. I can hear some tu-tu-tu noise after 25 minutes driving (on local about 40 mph), the sound is similar to motorcycle muffler sound. I then park the car, go to front, I can feel the hood is a little bit hot to touch. When I lift the hood, touch the metal prop rod I feel it's grilled. I can still hold it for a seconds, and will feel not comfortable if hold longer. On top of manifold, my hand can feel the heat wave, And I don't dare to touch the metal. I can't find my temperature laser measure gun, so i drop some water to identify the hot spot, here is the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkzE...ature=youtu.be)
Heat works fine (hoter than usual), A/C works fine.
If a/c on, both fan will run. if a/c off, I barely see fan run (maybe I didn't wait long enough).
The EOBD scan reading of "o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1" has voltage between 1.275 (when I didn't start the engine) to 0.5 (when engine running/idle). does that mean the sensor itself has no issue?
**some background**
0. I didn't replace water pump or timing belt, the car is 110k miles
1. I replaced the whole AC 3 years ago
2. I replaced the oil pan this March because oil change guy strip the plug thread.
around same time, I have engine code "P1298 HONDA Electric Load Detector Circuit High Voltage", and I replaced it
3. There is a slightly vibration / leak in the exhaust pipe. Around end of April and early May I took it to shop#1 (decent shop, they only do exhaust pipe stuff). Usually the guy will weld and tried to fix, this time they feel the convert is rusty and beyond repair, the quote to replace catalytic converter exhaust pipe is about $500.
4. My alternator make a lot of noise, and gradually fail. I went to shop#2 to replace the alternate, and the serpentine belt (two of them) on 5/11
5. since then occasional noise was heard particularly when a/c is turned on, so I took back to the shop on 5/20, and they tighten the belt, it got quiet. When I got back to home, I open the hood to take a look, and notice the power steering fluid reservoir is not clip in, so it hanging there. This shop is just doing lousy job.
6. The next day, 5/21 I got a engine light on, "P0133 HONDA O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 1". I didn't pay much attention to it. My impression is that O2 sensor only reduce the fuel efficiency. And I hate to bring the old car back to shop, every time they do something, something else has issue.
7. back to the over heat issue, I don't remember the exact timeline. One day I drove back home (after 25 miles on highway), I noticed some fluid on the floor, it's definitely not engine oil and seems to be coolant when I touch it. I check the reservoir the level is between min/max. Open the radiator cap, it looks normal too (I can see the green coolant). I purchased the Honda coolant as precaution. I didn't see the sign of leak since then.
8. I do notice the car is less powerful usually when speed is around 0-15 mph, I almost need to "floor" the gas pedal when driving in the sub division. Once I got to highway, I can drive to 70 without problem.
**some research**
I am reading this post (https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...reference.html), which is very helpful, but it easily overwhelm a newbie.
what could be next step to troubleshoot this?
Many thanks!
P0133 HONDA O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor
P1456 HONDA Evaporative Emissions Control
**Problem**
For quite a while I notice this Honda Civic 2002 has an overheating issue under the hood, around exhaust manifold (http://imgur.com/a/1enxT)
Yester and Today is about 85 degree, I turn on a/c, I drove about 20 miles/30 minutes to work. I can hear some tu-tu-tu noise after 25 minutes driving (on local about 40 mph), the sound is similar to motorcycle muffler sound. I then park the car, go to front, I can feel the hood is a little bit hot to touch. When I lift the hood, touch the metal prop rod I feel it's grilled. I can still hold it for a seconds, and will feel not comfortable if hold longer. On top of manifold, my hand can feel the heat wave, And I don't dare to touch the metal. I can't find my temperature laser measure gun, so i drop some water to identify the hot spot, here is the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkzE...ature=youtu.be)
Heat works fine (hoter than usual), A/C works fine.
If a/c on, both fan will run. if a/c off, I barely see fan run (maybe I didn't wait long enough).
The EOBD scan reading of "o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1" has voltage between 1.275 (when I didn't start the engine) to 0.5 (when engine running/idle). does that mean the sensor itself has no issue?
**some background**
0. I didn't replace water pump or timing belt, the car is 110k miles
1. I replaced the whole AC 3 years ago
2. I replaced the oil pan this March because oil change guy strip the plug thread.
around same time, I have engine code "P1298 HONDA Electric Load Detector Circuit High Voltage", and I replaced it
3. There is a slightly vibration / leak in the exhaust pipe. Around end of April and early May I took it to shop#1 (decent shop, they only do exhaust pipe stuff). Usually the guy will weld and tried to fix, this time they feel the convert is rusty and beyond repair, the quote to replace catalytic converter exhaust pipe is about $500.
4. My alternator make a lot of noise, and gradually fail. I went to shop#2 to replace the alternate, and the serpentine belt (two of them) on 5/11
5. since then occasional noise was heard particularly when a/c is turned on, so I took back to the shop on 5/20, and they tighten the belt, it got quiet. When I got back to home, I open the hood to take a look, and notice the power steering fluid reservoir is not clip in, so it hanging there. This shop is just doing lousy job.
6. The next day, 5/21 I got a engine light on, "P0133 HONDA O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response Bank 1 Sensor 1". I didn't pay much attention to it. My impression is that O2 sensor only reduce the fuel efficiency. And I hate to bring the old car back to shop, every time they do something, something else has issue.
7. back to the over heat issue, I don't remember the exact timeline. One day I drove back home (after 25 miles on highway), I noticed some fluid on the floor, it's definitely not engine oil and seems to be coolant when I touch it. I check the reservoir the level is between min/max. Open the radiator cap, it looks normal too (I can see the green coolant). I purchased the Honda coolant as precaution. I didn't see the sign of leak since then.
8. I do notice the car is less powerful usually when speed is around 0-15 mph, I almost need to "floor" the gas pedal when driving in the sub division. Once I got to highway, I can drive to 70 without problem.
**some research**
I am reading this post (https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...reference.html), which is very helpful, but it easily overwhelm a newbie.
what could be next step to troubleshoot this?
Many thanks!
Last edited by hiac; 07-13-2017 at 10:53 PM.
07-13-2017
#2
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
exhaust manifold is too hot
You aren't supposed to touch it when it's hot.
It has heat shields to help protect other items nearby from intense heat.
I noticed some fluid on the ground, it's definitely not engine oil. seems to be coolant when I touch it. I check the reservoir but didn't see the fluid is low
Engine overheating is typically caused by loss of fluid from the radiator (of course there are always other possible causes, like the radiator fan quit working)
Blown head gasket is a common cause.
07-13-2017
#3
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
An exhaust manifold can reach over 1000*F.
You aren't supposed to touch it when it's hot.
It has heat shields to help protect other items nearby from intense heat.
You need to check the level inside the radiator.
Engine overheating is typically caused by loss of fluid from the radiator (of course there are always other possible causes, like the radiator fan quit working)
Blown head gasket is a common cause.
You aren't supposed to touch it when it's hot.
It has heat shields to help protect other items nearby from intense heat.
You need to check the level inside the radiator.
Engine overheating is typically caused by loss of fluid from the radiator (of course there are always other possible causes, like the radiator fan quit working)
Blown head gasket is a common cause.
Thank you for taking time to help me out. I definitely feel it's overheat. when I touch the metal prop rod, I feel it's grilled. I can still hold it for a seconds, and will feel not comfortable if hold longer.
From home to office is roughly 30 min drive. I notice usually it got heat up after 25 minutes driving (on local road). Today and I heard some tu-tu-tu sound when driving 40mph (similar to motorcycle muffler sound). But once stop at red light, I didn't hear it.
I upload some picture. the scan reading of o2 sensor bank 1 sensor 1 has voltage between 1.275 (when I didn't start the engine) to 0.5 (when engine running/idle). I saw some dirt oli on that spot:
http://imgur.com/a/1enxT
is that a typical sign of blown head gasket. And roughly how much to fix it?
I also notice if a/c on, both fan will run. if a/c off, I barely see fan run (maybe I didn't wait long enough).
Thank you again ezone!
07-13-2017
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
You've got one pic showing engine coolant temp at 158*F...That's not even up to normal operating temperature yet.
Does the temperature gauge on the dash ever indicate the engine is warmer than usual?
Does the temperature gauge on the dash ever indicate the engine is warmer than usual?
07-14-2017
#5
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
Hi ezone,
temperature gauge looks normal to me, but I need to pay attention in next couple of days to be sure. I took the car to garage who change my alternator and belt, they let the car idle and did visual inspection (no testing) and said they didn't see overheat issue. coolant temperature is 195. I pointed out the oil by the engine block which I suspect it might be Blown head gasket. The guy pop up the hood and said it seems like oil leak and if it's head gasket it doesn't seems serious. He asked me to bring the car right away when I noticed the overheat. I probably will take the car to another garage, I was a little bit disappointed that they didn't do any testing and charge $40.
ezone, I have two follow up questions:
1) I measure coolant temperature when car idle, which is in range of 185-195. if I drive around for half an hour, what's the normal/expected temperature range?
2) the scanner can read o2 sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) voltage from 0.5-1.275, does that mean o2 sensor itself or harness/wire connection is not a problem, and the p01333 code might be something else？
As always, Thank you very much
temperature gauge looks normal to me, but I need to pay attention in next couple of days to be sure. I took the car to garage who change my alternator and belt, they let the car idle and did visual inspection (no testing) and said they didn't see overheat issue. coolant temperature is 195. I pointed out the oil by the engine block which I suspect it might be Blown head gasket. The guy pop up the hood and said it seems like oil leak and if it's head gasket it doesn't seems serious. He asked me to bring the car right away when I noticed the overheat. I probably will take the car to another garage, I was a little bit disappointed that they didn't do any testing and charge $40.
ezone, I have two follow up questions:
1) I measure coolant temperature when car idle, which is in range of 185-195. if I drive around for half an hour, what's the normal/expected temperature range?
2) the scanner can read o2 sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) voltage from 0.5-1.275, does that mean o2 sensor itself or harness/wire connection is not a problem, and the p01333 code might be something else？
As always, Thank you very much
07-14-2017
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
I pointed out the oil
An engine BURNS GASOLINE and creates a LOT of HEAT.
How hot is FIRE?
How hot is an explosion?
Normal engine coolant temperatures as seen on a scanner display can be well above 200*F while running and/or driving, depending on loads and airflow through the radiator.
Other areas of the engine (exhaust) are MUCH hotter than what you see on the display or gauge. Still normal.
That means everything in and near the engine compartment including the hood and fenders can be screaming hot. That's not a problem.
The coolant temp might need to reach well over 230*F before the temp gauge on the dash starts climbing above its usual center position
For the P0133 code, is that the ONLY code related to O2 sensors? If so, replace the primary O2 sensor.
07-14-2017
#7
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
You have a very minor oil leak ---probably from the valve cover gasket or the cam plug. That's not a head gasket problem.
An engine BURNS GASOLINE and creates a LOT of HEAT.
How hot is FIRE?
How hot is an explosion?
Normal engine coolant temperatures as seen on a scanner display can be well above 200*F while running and/or driving, depending on loads and airflow through the radiator.
Other areas of the engine (exhaust) are MUCH hotter than what you see on the display or gauge. Still normal.
That means everything in and near the engine compartment including the hood and fenders can be screaming hot. That's not a problem.
The coolant temp might need to reach well over 230*F before the temp gauge on the dash starts climbing above its usual center position
For the P0133 code, is that the ONLY code related to O2 sensors? If so, replace the primary O2 sensor.
An engine BURNS GASOLINE and creates a LOT of HEAT.
How hot is FIRE?
How hot is an explosion?
Normal engine coolant temperatures as seen on a scanner display can be well above 200*F while running and/or driving, depending on loads and airflow through the radiator.
Other areas of the engine (exhaust) are MUCH hotter than what you see on the display or gauge. Still normal.
That means everything in and near the engine compartment including the hood and fenders can be screaming hot. That's not a problem.
The coolant temp might need to reach well over 230*F before the temp gauge on the dash starts climbing above its usual center position
For the P0133 code, is that the ONLY code related to O2 sensors? If so, replace the primary O2 sensor.
I am going to plug the scanner and drive around and see how temperature looks like.
One thing I notice today when drive local 40mph, heat max, window down, every 30 seconds there is a change of output of hot air. so at 30th, 60th seconds... etc, I feel the output go up (or go down) for 1-2 seconds then back to normal. and I wonder is this cycle pattern indicate anything?
I just order the primary o2 sensor. Thank you very much for all your help
07-14-2017
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
One thing I notice today when drive local 40mph, heat max, window down,
every 30 seconds there is a change of output
Was the AC running-- or defrost position selected?
07-16-2017
#9
Administrator
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Administrator
iTrader: (22)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Age: 39
Posts: 21,460
Received 1,156 Likes
on
806 Posts
Rep Power: 486 
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
Curiosity got the best of me because I had a new toy (IR surface thermometer) so I took it to my exhaust mani (ceramic coated header, no heat shield) with the engine running and it indicated ~500F. With temps like that, dripping water on it is going to immediately sizzle off like in your video. I wouldn't worry about it.
Just my 2 cents.
07-16-2017
#10
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
it's hot here about 85F. I turned on heater to test, some said if engine is too hot, turn on the heater so the heat has a way to get out.
AC is not running, and defrost not selected.
I mean change air velocity. best way to put it, it's like a guy breath normally then every 20 seconds, he breathe deeply gasp for air (for about 2 seconds).
Thank you!
07-16-2017
#11
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
I mean change air velocity.
some said if engine is too hot, turn on the heater so the heat has a way to get out.
I have NOT seen anything in this thread that indicates your engine was ever overheating:
temperature gauge looks normal to me
07-16-2017
#12
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
I've had that happen before. Then I realized there's a little foam bit on the hood prop. I figured that's what it was for.
Curiosity got the best of me because I had a new toy (IR surface thermometer) so I took it to my exhaust mani (ceramic coated header, no heat shield) with the engine running and it indicated ~500F. With temps like that, dripping water on it is going to immediately sizzle off like in your video. I wouldn't worry about it.
Just my 2 cents.
Curiosity got the best of me because I had a new toy (IR surface thermometer) so I took it to my exhaust mani (ceramic coated header, no heat shield) with the engine running and it indicated ~500F. With temps like that, dripping water on it is going to immediately sizzle off like in your video. I wouldn't worry about it.
Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for your input. I am battling the other issue happened recently. for example, I went to shopping mall, 20 miles away, no issue driving. when driving back on highway about 50mph (while I am NOT braking), the wheel vibrate, and I feel I hit small bump constantly and I can smell a burning odor. then I exit and drive locally that vibration go away.
and I drove on highway every day, and the vibrate and burning odor doesn't always happen. If it happened it seems to be toward the end of the trip, maybe some heat built up. That's how I notice this engine overheat. I am glad if this engine heat is normal, maybe my problem is the brake, wheel, tire...
I feel the tire balance seems ok, if I hands off, the car is pretty straight. Tire air pressure in range. didn't see lump in tire. I noticed the burning odor about 3 times in past 3 months. took the car to garage, they say the break shoe/pad looks decent, and no sign of caliper sticks.
Thank you!
07-16-2017
#13
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
maybe my problem is the brake, wheel, tire...
07-16-2017
#14
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
Thank you ezone,
I notice the burning odor is from front right tire, pull some water can see a lot of steam. If I pull water on left brake, there is much less steam. A few weeks ago I took the car to garage who change my front brake, they say the break shoe/pad looks decent, and no sign of caliper sticks, they notice the car has nose dive a little bit, so they adjust rear brake. since then the burning odor does go away, but it seems coming back recently. I am going to feel each wheel (and tire) . What sign should I look for?
Thanks again!
I notice the burning odor is from front right tire, pull some water can see a lot of steam. If I pull water on left brake, there is much less steam. A few weeks ago I took the car to garage who change my front brake, they say the break shoe/pad looks decent, and no sign of caliper sticks, they notice the car has nose dive a little bit, so they adjust rear brake. since then the burning odor does go away, but it seems coming back recently. I am going to feel each wheel (and tire) . What sign should I look for?
Thanks again!
07-16-2017
#15
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
burning odor is from front right tire
pull some water can see a lot of steam.
I am going to feel each wheel (and tire) . What sign should I look for?
07-16-2017
#17
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
So the smell is hot brake pads. That brake caliper probably needs to be replaced, or you need to figure out why it is sticking on.
Quenching an overheated brake rotor is bad. You can cause the rotor to crack, and that makes it dangerous. Rotor might need to be replaced.
You already found it.
Quenching an overheated brake rotor is bad. You can cause the rotor to crack, and that makes it dangerous. Rotor might need to be replaced.
You already found it.
I just bought the parts. I plan to replace caliper on right side (where heat generated), and also the rotor and pad. on the left side, should I replace rotor and pad?
I am under impression rotor/pads need to replace in pair, and caliper not necessary
07-16-2017
#18
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
General rule when it comes to brake work is to keep things equal on both sides of an axle.
Meaning if you replace an important brake part (pads for example) on one side of the car, the same part should be replaced on the opposite side......
Same can be said of the brake rotors, and in the case of the brake caliper you should consider that the one that hasn't gone bad yet (left side) probably has just as many miles and age as the one that is bad now. What's the chances it can soon have the same problem as the one that is bad now?
In the end it's really up to you. Do you want to try to eliminate all the problems you can right now, or wait til they show up as big problems later on?
Meaning if you replace an important brake part (pads for example) on one side of the car, the same part should be replaced on the opposite side......
Same can be said of the brake rotors, and in the case of the brake caliper you should consider that the one that hasn't gone bad yet (left side) probably has just as many miles and age as the one that is bad now. What's the chances it can soon have the same problem as the one that is bad now?
In the end it's really up to you. Do you want to try to eliminate all the problems you can right now, or wait til they show up as big problems later on?
07-16-2017
#19
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: exhaust manifold is too hot
General rule when it comes to brake work is to keep things equal on both sides of an axle.
Meaning if you replace an important brake part (pads for example) on one side of the car, the same part should be replaced on the opposite side......
Same can be said of the brake rotors, and in the case of the brake caliper you should consider that the one that hasn't gone bad yet (left side) probably has just as many miles and age as the one that is bad now. What's the chances it can soon have the same problem as the one that is bad now?
In the end it's really up to you. Do you want to try to eliminate all the problems you can right now, or wait til they show up as big problems later on?
Meaning if you replace an important brake part (pads for example) on one side of the car, the same part should be replaced on the opposite side......
Same can be said of the brake rotors, and in the case of the brake caliper you should consider that the one that hasn't gone bad yet (left side) probably has just as many miles and age as the one that is bad now. What's the chances it can soon have the same problem as the one that is bad now?
In the end it's really up to you. Do you want to try to eliminate all the problems you can right now, or wait til they show up as big problems later on?
Thank you ezone!
