Niaboc67

Hello, my 7th gen has a blown head gasket. I was told by a mechanic that rather than replace the head gasket it would be cheaper to just get a used engine and have it replaced and while I was at it, have the water pump and timing belt changed. I called a local junkyard and they told me they had a Honda Civic 2003 engine with 106k on it, and that they would sell it for $600. I asked if they knew anyone who could install. They said their other branch could. I called the other branch and was quoted for both the used engine and labor to install it would be $1350. Do you think this is a fair price? I'd there anything I should look out for in this process?

Thank You

Colin42

The only problem with a junkyard engine is you don't know what other problems it has, oil consumption, head gasket, accident damage etc.

How much does your mechanic want to do the head gasket? Using a honda gasket as well as a honda timing belt, tensioner, and waterpump.

mikey1

what kind of warranty are the giving you with it, if any?

the used engine could also have a blown head gasket,

for that much money you should be able to have your head gasket replaced....thats what i would do,

too many question marks with a junk yard engine,

the only way i would use a junk yard engine is if i was going to rip the entire thing apart and replace every gasket and seal before i installed it, which would include the head gasket

Niaboc67

I called the place again and they had, I assume a different engine, this time with 87k on it. Who knows how I could verify the mileage? Couldn't they just tell me any mileage they want? I asked a local mechanic who quoted me $750 for a head gasket replacement.

With this junkyard the rundown was:
87k engine vtec
101 day warranty
$550 engine
$700 for labor + fluids

I called this place a week ago and was quoted $1350
Then I called today and the guy was chewing guy and coughing and saying "umm" a lot, just rather annoying and arrogant sounding. He said these engines at this mileage go for $750 or more. But for me, he would do if for $650. After a lpt.of talking I then asked him if he could do it for $600 he agreed, and $700 labor + fluids. Then I accidentally called back thinking it was another junkyard, spoke to a new guy who quickly said $550 for the engine and $700 + fluids. So the be price is $1250.

mikey1

yes they can say anything, that's why i said there are too many question marks with a junk yard engine,

there you go, i would fix your own

Niaboc67

It seems like the consensus is that if this car has overheated a few times there may be a lot of damage done to it and it might be best to get the whole engine replaced. I called the place again and asked for the mileage and he told me 87 to 90, under 100k. Other mechanics I spoke to quoted me outrageous prices, highest being for a used engine (jdm) with 50k to 60k, about $2500. Unreal. The junkyard in comparison seems good but I asked for an extended warranty of 6 months and they wouldn't do it. Said the car was too old for that warranty. That part I don't understand, why won't they extend my warranty?
So the price is, $550 for the 87k engine, $700 for labor, $60 for fluids. And since the car isn't tagged and no insurance, I will have to get it towed. The junkyard said they would tow it from and to for $75 and then back to my house for $75. So in all that should be $1460. Does this seem fair to everyone?

When I asked for the extended warranty and he declined, I said "anything that could go wrong would probably be within that 101 day warranty, right?" And then replied: "pretty sure...." That part bothers me. Should I be worried here?

Thank you so much!
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ezone

Your mechanic can't do a head gasket?

The new used engine needs a head gasket job too.....BUT that will not be discovered until after it's been installed in your car and you've put 500 miles on it. Warranty is gone.

Now what? NOW how much will it cost?



How bad is your current engine? How bad has it been overheated? Does it drink oil?
If you remove the radiator cap and crank the engine, does it geyser antifreeze out?

A dealership in the next town likes to try to sell complete engine replacements for a simple blown head gasket (maaaaybe they don't have anyone capable of doing the head gasket work?).........
I sometimes get to steal their customers and do the head gasket , with the caveat that there are always unknowns and the engine might consume more oil than it used to, if it's been severely overheated. Most people these days don't want to have me put rings in the engine because the car is not worth a lot.....Our shops price to do the head gasket and associated trimmings is cheaper than the other dealers engine replacement quotes.

mikey1

i wouldn't put any faith in a junkyard warranty anyway,

if anything major goes wrong (like the head gasket), you will just get the ole "well that is not covered"

i also wouldn't trust a junkyard to install an engine, you will probably have an unlicensed "parts jockey" doing the job,

5.0Thunder

Just for reference, and not to persuade you either way: we have a lot of JDM importers here in Houston. They usually charge $450-$550 for an engine that looks brand new, compression and leakdown tested, and said to have 45k miles on it. I know those tests don't reveal everything but it's a pretty solid deal. they also charge 400-600 for install.

I almost went this route but had the same lingering suspicion that there could still be an issue so I just had the head gasket replaced by a local honda technician.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

my gasket went at something like 90k miles - the ones you saw could go anytime, or could last another 100k.

who knows?

Niaboc67

Thank you
The engine has overheated only twice very badly that I can remember, in the redzone. Other times it got to maybe 70% before I would turn on the heater or just turn the motor off. It doesn't drink oil as far as I know. If I were to run the engine and rev the engine I am pretty sure it would geyser out. It has been sitting for a week now, with the battery in the passenger seat, the battery is fine like this right?

I am curious what you would charge for this job? Say I came to you to needing a head gasket, timing belt, water-pump and tensioner replacement. How much would you charge?

Niaboc67

Why do they go? If I get this repaired and all who is to say I won't just be in the same boat all over again..

I didn't want to ask this, but might as well now, do you think 7th generation civics suck? I mean, the gasket problem, the tranny problems.. I remember buying this car thinking it would be a great commuter car and it would run to 300k. My impression of honda civics has been destroyed. My brother owned a 93' civic and that thing never broke, had something like 270k on it before it was sold. Hardly has any issues, just minor things. But my civic, it's been nothing but a headache from day one. What's your honest opinion on this model? It seems there is a cult following, but at the same time the car has some serious downsides. Especially compared to the 6th and 5th generation civics.


Thanks

Niaboc67

How much did the honda technician quote you at? How much was the gasket kit?
Thanks

Niaboc67

I was thinking something on the lines of this too with the parts jockey. When he said "pretty sure..." in reply to my "Any major that could go wrong to the engine will happen in 3 months, right?" question, it got me thinking hard about this major cost decision. A lot of mechanics I meet just want to give me the ole "screw me over for everything I've got" routine, which ain't much..."Oh a head gasket needs replacing? that will be $2500" It's like they just pull these figures out of thin air....

ezone

So the cylinder head probably needs to be measured for flatness and resurfaced if necessary.

Sometimes they need it, sometimes they are ok.

For laughs, you could check that out. Fill radiator, leave the cap off, and crank it.

Seat might get ruined by acid.

It varies with the actual car and the work involved, and we use Alldata labor guide for making estimates.

Also, I stay away from figuring up actual dollar estimates. I just solve the problems the best as I can.
Guess, bare minimum head gasket job in my dealership around USD 800-1000 depending on needs, add pump and belt and tensoner, seals and all that stuff probably a bit over 1500ish.

Another poster here lives in a place with 3 local dealerships, I suggested to get an estimate from one then check with the others maybe they will compete on price to get the work in the door, I think one even offered a loaner car







They just do. It's well known they can do this. It's "typical for the age and mileage" (LOL) and expected, but not all of the cars ever develop the problem.

If it isn't done right the first time, you get to do it all over again.
Some people have reported extremely premature failure after doing the job with aftermarket head gasket. I only use Honda gasket.
IMO some will make it that far, some don't.
Some need more love (and $) than others to make it that far.

A bit of research would probably help you predict which ones are most likely to go that far with the least issues.

Some owners keep trying to drive long after the car tried to tell them it has a problem, then can't comprehend how much additional damage they caused by doing so.
Many are sadly neglected and abused, then cussed when they lay down to die. Some car owners really need a bus pass instead of a car. (Applies to all cars)


Nothing is bulletproof.

Also keep in mind, a 'wrong mechanic' can quickly cause more damage than you can imagine.

Niaboc67

Thank you!
I've been driving this car with a bad head gasket for about 3 years, filling it up with antifreeze daily. And then pouring in the bluedevil months ago making the overheating worse. It would over heat almost everyday but never to the red zone, always to like 60 to 70 percentage range of the temp gauge. Only two times did it hit the redzone. I am thinking almost certainly after the amount of time I've been driving it that it needs to be checked/measured for flatness and then resurfaced/milled/machined.

I called a local garage, family owned been in business for 20+ years. I am going with them to do the head gasket, water pump, tensioner, and timing belt. I asked for the part numbers, they are using the fel-pro set off of Amazon, and the gates set off of Amazon, not OEM which I am sketchy about, it would cost me a lot more to get those OEM parts. Should I be worried about these parts being used?

Say the job is done perfectly. How long should I expect the fel-pro and gates set to a
last me? Do non-oem parts generally crap out very soon? I dearly don't want to spend more fixing another head gasket a few thousand miles down the road. I read another poster talking about the black goo from a non-oem gasket and it sounded like a melted fel-pro. Also, they are using fel-pro head bolts.

Also since using the bluedevil has made the overheating worse, I think I might need a new radiator. Which I think I can do that job myself. Before taking it into the mechanic do you think I should tell them.i put blue devils in there? Or might that be a liability, in that they could say, if the gasket or other parts crap out, that it was my fault the parts crapped out because there was lingering blue devil in the system? I am not sure if I should tell me.

mikey1

you just opened up a whole new can of worms by pouring that crap in there,

that crap will gum up your entire system,

you could be looking at a new rad and heater core now

Niaboc67

yeah I flushed the heater core, it seemed that gunk was gone. I know a lot of it is in the radiator. I can buy a rad for $50 and installation seems easy. I am just wondering if I should tell the shop that I put the blue devil in or not.

ezone

Overheating 3 YEARS,

blue devil is liquid glass?


Oh noes

mikey1

if you talking about a shop replacing the head gasket, they will probably see evidence of it when they pull the head off

ezone

So is it the liquid glass (sodium silicate) head gasket sealer, or is it plain ordinary stop leak?

Do you think withholding crucial information will lower your bill?

Get real.
I'd raise the price on you, add another hour labor to the job.
Just like in this thread, you wasted a bunch of valuable time and energy by not disclosing pertinent information right off the bat.


============

Fo reals tho, that info changes everything.

Upon further review......I change my vote to "abandon the car on the side of the road, set it on fire".



Collect insurance monies.
Then buy an unmolested car.

========================================

If you REALLY want to do the head gasket, get the head gasket from HONDA.
People have posted here of felpro lasting 6 weeks to a year.
Reuse original head bolts unless damaged.
New radiator. Plus ALL hoses (including all the small ones), they have probably been compromised by overheating.


Or drop in another dubious used engine, but replace the head gasket before it goes in, plus everything else to freshen it up. Plus radiator, plus plus plus.

Flush heater core again while the engine is apart or removed.




A replacement Civic sounds pretty appealing right now.

5.0Thunder

I got my wife's 01 civic EX in cosmetically mint condition with 100k on it for $2500, clean title, yada yada. The radiator cracked at around 120 and caused the car to overheat a short time after. I suspected the gasket was bad for the next year or longer. I replaced the radiator with a larger aluminum one and it drank about 20oz of water every 5 days or so.

At this point the car had about 155k miles on it.

I shopped around for a while and stumbled upon a technician doing side work from home who gave me a great deal on the work. He used genuine honda gaskets and had the head milled flat (both of which I saw first hand). He also added genuine honda coolant and did an oil change with honda parts/fluid. An engine mount broke in the process so I replaced that afterward and I had to take the car back a week later for a valve adjustment but all-in-all, it was a good experience and costed me less than 20% of what I paid for the car.

The car now has 160k on it and I'll likely drive it until it needs major repair again, at which point I'll roll it off a cliff. That could be another 150k miles, who knows.

If I had not found that guy and my only option was the $1500-$2200 options from local dealerships and shops, I would have sold the car and bought a different one.

Niaboc67

You paid around $500 for a head gasket replacement? Wow that's pretty good! This local shop I am considering is quoting me $1200 which is better than most of places. But they aren't using genuine Honda parts. They are using fel-pro head gasket, and head bolts. Along with gates timing belt loops, water pump, and tensioner. Still cheaper than buying another car which I cannot afford right now. There are a few little things they are charging me for that I might be able to get the price lower on. I wish they would use OEM but they say that would cost much more. I might just see if I can talk them into it now. But $1200 for 3 things I'd say is decent, plus a warranty. I had plenty of tree-shade mechanics offer to do the job cheap but then if it crapped out I'd be screwed.

ezone

I'd tell you to stop the entire show before it's too late.
Cheap ain't good here. There can be a pretty damn high COST of being CHEAP.


If you want genuine Honda parts, by God they better sell you what you want to buy.



Where's that other thread with the shopping list of necessary parts?

5.0Thunder

That cost, with the added comfort of using OEM parts, is what ended up swaying me. I normally don't like other people touching my cars but this was a job I didn't want to deal with since it involved taking the head to an outside source and leaving the engine open in our 90%+ humidity for a week (since I have a regular day job). The technician was able to have it done in 2 days.

Here's a link to an OEM gasket set for the cheapest price I've seen. This website has coupon codes for $10-$15 off quite frequently as well. If you look at the Q/A section, I'm the one that inquired about whether they are genuine or not and they explained they are genuine Honda parts.

http://www.buyautoparts.com/buynow/55-80018_ON

Niaboc67

....

Niaboc67

Thank you
From what I can tell fel-pro isn't cheap and is up to spec for the gasket. The Amazon reviews are great. And I searched other Honda forums for peoples general experience with fel-pro gaskets, most say they have had an outstanding experience with the gasket. I probably would be the one to get a crappy gasket but who knows, it seems like it's more who installs the gasket than the gasket itself. They seem like they are well designed and have a good reputation for being reliable.

mikey1

Niaboc67

Why would they lie? These are just random forums of people who have had experience with fel-pro. I am sure some go south, but overall many people seem to have had a positive experience with these gaskets.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

there were some cases in here that the felpro failed not too long after the gasket was changed.
just empirical data...

Look into the OE gasket, just to be in safe side. You already have risks for the 3 years with overheating to deal with, don't add more variables.