They don't make it easy, do they?
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They don't make it easy, do they?
TL;DR: Changing the accessory belts was a 2 hour/1 bandaid job this morning.
<rant>
Way back in February, the belts started squealing. Being short of time to make a run to the parts store and figure out how to get the AC/alternator belt off, I decided to "just" tighten them.
Because I have enormous clumsy mitts for hands, I got things most of the way back together, but needed help from Mrs. Juror to get the lower bolt that holds the power steering pump in place tightened. I promised myself I'd buy a set of ratcheting box-end wrenches before replacing the belts.
Which I finally got around to this weekend, after buying the aforementioned wrenches. If it wasn't bad enough that you have to take the power steering pump and reservoir off to get at the lower belt, you can't even *see* the lower bolt that fixes the alternator in place. Once you figure out it's there, just getting a wrench on the damn thing is a two hand job.
But wait, there's more! A 3/8" drive normal socket doesn't come out far enough to clear the obstructions so you can turn the wrench, and there isn't enough room to get an extension on either. I made do with a 1/4" drive socket with a 3/8" adapter, which worked. And then if you don't have a long socket wrench or a cheater bar, you're stuck trying to swing the wrench between the alternator pulley and the strut tower.
And let's discuss that wing-bolt they use to tighten the belt. I'm sure if you're at the Honda factory or a dealer, you just pull a perfectly fitting wing-nut socket out of your toolbox and have at it. Those of us who are fortunate enough to own and angle grinder and are pissed off enough to use it can make a poorly-fitting substitute that keeps slipping off the damn wing-bolt in a space where you *also* have just enough swing to get a couple clicks of the ratchet.
Oh, and what do you bump into if you slip off? Refrigerant lines, just what I want to keep whacking. The rest of the world is what, screwed? You sure aren't getting a pair of vise-grips or channel locks down in there to turn the wing-bolt.
To say nothing of the fact that before you worry about tightening the wing-bolt you need to get the belt over all of the pulleys. Nobody's arms fit through that space to the non-accessory side of the engine and loop the belt over the pulley.
At the factory, I'm sure this all gets assembled before they drop the engine in, and I'm sure the real mechanics around here have a better trick than laying on the ground holding the belt from above with one arm while working it around the pulley with the other, but that's the best I could figure out.
As expected, the ratcheting box-end wrenches make it possible tighten the lower bolt that fixes the power steering pump in place, so at least that was one small victory. Still two hours. Two. Hours. to replace the belts.
God, I miss the '86 Subaru BRAT I used to have. That was an easy car to work on, and I say this having rebuilt and re-booted the double-offset joints on the axles, swapped the original engine for one out of a 2001 Impreza, and replaced the input shaft seal on the transmission (which requires splitting the transmission case to get to. Many people complain about the 4-speed, but it's more of a puzzle than impossible to work on).
The only job I've done that comes close to demonstrating such a complete lack of designing for maintenance is replacing the clutch on the '76 Triumph TR6 I once owned. You need one person with a wrench going in through the hood, and another with a deep socket going in through the passenger compartment to get the bell-housing nuts and bolts undone.
</rant>
<rant>
Way back in February, the belts started squealing. Being short of time to make a run to the parts store and figure out how to get the AC/alternator belt off, I decided to "just" tighten them.
Because I have enormous clumsy mitts for hands, I got things most of the way back together, but needed help from Mrs. Juror to get the lower bolt that holds the power steering pump in place tightened. I promised myself I'd buy a set of ratcheting box-end wrenches before replacing the belts.
Which I finally got around to this weekend, after buying the aforementioned wrenches. If it wasn't bad enough that you have to take the power steering pump and reservoir off to get at the lower belt, you can't even *see* the lower bolt that fixes the alternator in place. Once you figure out it's there, just getting a wrench on the damn thing is a two hand job.
But wait, there's more! A 3/8" drive normal socket doesn't come out far enough to clear the obstructions so you can turn the wrench, and there isn't enough room to get an extension on either. I made do with a 1/4" drive socket with a 3/8" adapter, which worked. And then if you don't have a long socket wrench or a cheater bar, you're stuck trying to swing the wrench between the alternator pulley and the strut tower.
And let's discuss that wing-bolt they use to tighten the belt. I'm sure if you're at the Honda factory or a dealer, you just pull a perfectly fitting wing-nut socket out of your toolbox and have at it. Those of us who are fortunate enough to own and angle grinder and are pissed off enough to use it can make a poorly-fitting substitute that keeps slipping off the damn wing-bolt in a space where you *also* have just enough swing to get a couple clicks of the ratchet.
Oh, and what do you bump into if you slip off? Refrigerant lines, just what I want to keep whacking. The rest of the world is what, screwed? You sure aren't getting a pair of vise-grips or channel locks down in there to turn the wing-bolt.
To say nothing of the fact that before you worry about tightening the wing-bolt you need to get the belt over all of the pulleys. Nobody's arms fit through that space to the non-accessory side of the engine and loop the belt over the pulley.
At the factory, I'm sure this all gets assembled before they drop the engine in, and I'm sure the real mechanics around here have a better trick than laying on the ground holding the belt from above with one arm while working it around the pulley with the other, but that's the best I could figure out.
As expected, the ratcheting box-end wrenches make it possible tighten the lower bolt that fixes the power steering pump in place, so at least that was one small victory. Still two hours. Two. Hours. to replace the belts.
God, I miss the '86 Subaru BRAT I used to have. That was an easy car to work on, and I say this having rebuilt and re-booted the double-offset joints on the axles, swapped the original engine for one out of a 2001 Impreza, and replaced the input shaft seal on the transmission (which requires splitting the transmission case to get to. Many people complain about the 4-speed, but it's more of a puzzle than impossible to work on).
The only job I've done that comes close to demonstrating such a complete lack of designing for maintenance is replacing the clutch on the '76 Triumph TR6 I once owned. You need one person with a wrench going in through the hood, and another with a deep socket going in through the passenger compartment to get the bell-housing nuts and bolts undone.
</rant>
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Re: They don't make it easy, do they?
Still two hours. Two. Hours. to replace the belts.
I can have a timing belt on that engine replaced in less than an hour, that includes a set of fresh accessory belts.
Here's a few speed tips:
1- an air impact gun growing out of one arm
2- an air ratchet growing out of the other arm.
PS pump bottom nut, I use an offset box wrench
you can't even *see* the lower bolt that fixes the alternator in place. Once you figure out it's there, just getting a wrench on the damn thing is a two hand job.
Forgot to say: Many thanks are due to whoever posted a picture of a home-made wingnut socket, by the way!
It works great on many spare tire fixtures as well.
Checked your spare air lately?
To say nothing of the fact that before you worry about tightening the wing-bolt you need to get the belt over all of the pulleys. Nobody's arms fit through that space to the non-accessory side of the engine and loop the belt over the pulley.
I just use a big prybar to shove the alternator to tighten the belt,
MAYBE spin the jackbolt in with my fingers to hold it in place,
then tighten the bottom alternator bolt to lock it in place.
All accessed through the wheelwell.
If I didn't use the jackbolt to hold it in place above, I now spin it in by hand so it can't fall out later on.
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I can have a timing belt on that engine replaced in less than an hour, that includes a set of fresh accessory belts.
Thanks for the suggestion to pull the wheel and get at this all from the wheel well. The A/C ain't working, so it's a good bet I'll be trying to get at the bowels of the engine bay again sometime in the near future. Probably after I read a bunch of threads to figure out what my steps to diagnose it are.
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It's like anything else: repitition. The more times you do it the easier and quicker it becomes. There are times though I wish I had baby hands for working on cars (interior under/behind dash work).
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
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I don't have to lie to you, we aren't married.
Like Mr. Dong said, repetition. Speed and efficiency comes with experience and repetition. I can do several of Hondas timing belts in an hour if I don't loaf around, including many with the V6 engines.
I'd have to sandbag on 5th-6th gen Civics to drag it out to an hour.
That doesn't include a valve cover gasket.
If a valve cover gasket must be replaced, on some models that hour just went out the window. If it's old, it might have to be chiseled out and that can eat up a boatload of time.
I've posted in a thousand of them if I've posted in one.
When you try to kick your AC on, do the radiator fans turn on?
The timing belt threads I've looked at seem pretty involved. I know you're a pro and all, but even so that seems fast.
I'd have to sandbag on 5th-6th gen Civics to drag it out to an hour.
That doesn't include a valve cover gasket.
If a valve cover gasket must be replaced, on some models that hour just went out the window. If it's old, it might have to be chiseled out and that can eat up a boatload of time.
The A/C ain't working, so it's a good bet I'll be trying to get at the bowels of the engine bay again sometime in the near future. Probably after I read a bunch of threads to figure out what my steps to diagnose it are.
When you try to kick your AC on, do the radiator fans turn on?
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I'm not a pro, and timing belt with fresh accessory belts and whatnot, my fastest time was 3 hours, starting from laying out my tools then popping the hood to starting the car to make sure everything was copacetic. I've only done it a couple times on my car (as a standalone maintenance item). Once was to replace at 120k, the other was because my CKP sensor decided to eat my timing belt, and I was hoping that there was no further damage (there was).
This made me laugh harder than it rightfully should have. Something's wrong with me
But... Back to the initial topic at hand.. One thing I've done every time I've had to mess with the alternator was take out my driver's side headlight. I can have that thing out inside of 5 minutes. Handful of bumper clips (currently 7 or 9 holding my bumper cover on. I think 9.), 4 screws on the bumper, 4 bolts holding the headlight down, and electrical connections. After that, easier access to alternator. I've never thought of ezone's thing of using a prybar then finger tightening the adjustment bolt. I may have to try that next time. Seems so much easier. Then again, I did make a wingnut bolt out of a spare autozone house brand 14mm socket.
This made me laugh harder than it rightfully should have. Something's wrong with me
But... Back to the initial topic at hand.. One thing I've done every time I've had to mess with the alternator was take out my driver's side headlight. I can have that thing out inside of 5 minutes. Handful of bumper clips (currently 7 or 9 holding my bumper cover on. I think 9.), 4 screws on the bumper, 4 bolts holding the headlight down, and electrical connections. After that, easier access to alternator. I've never thought of ezone's thing of using a prybar then finger tightening the adjustment bolt. I may have to try that next time. Seems so much easier. Then again, I did make a wingnut bolt out of a spare autozone house brand 14mm socket.
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a hoist and air tools can make a big difference,
i could have the timing belt done in about 3 hours in my garage using standard hand tools, that would be rushing the job, which i normally dont do because i dont have any reason to
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Oof, you're all a bunch of speed demons. I'm going to need a lot more practice to get that fast, which, as somebody who only works on his own car, I'm fervently hoping to *not* get.
The A/C issue is that the blower blows, but it doesn't blow cold air. The fans and compressor do not run. I jumpered the low-pressure cut-off switch, and can confirm that having done so, the compressor clutch engages and the fan turns on.
That's the bad news. The good news is that nobody has screwed with the A/C yet beyond the quick paperclip test, so it's in the as-previously working state except for whatever has broken.
That's as far as I've gotten. I've been reading A/C related threads as time allows, but I haven't gotten any farther in diagnosing things, or even figuring out what my next step ought to be. I figured I'd hold off on posting about it until I was a little more informed, but here we go :-)
Anybody got a wiring diagram? It's a 2005 EX. I found the one linked below for a 2001 civic.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ml#post4688515
I haven't tried the self-test ezone described farther up that thread yet. I'll give that a go tonight in case the instructions are applicable to a 2005 as well.
I'll also note that the car doesn't seem to have any other random electrical glitches like looktotheson's civic, except that the driver's side rear window doesn't work. I'm tentatively going to chalk that one up to the door harness, though I'll hold off on calling it for sure until I get some time to pull the door card and check for voltage where I expect to find it.
I regret to report that the available diagnostic equipment is limited to a DMM. I don't have a gauge set, and the checkered flag parts store doesn't include them in their tool loaner program :-/
The A/C issue is that the blower blows, but it doesn't blow cold air. The fans and compressor do not run. I jumpered the low-pressure cut-off switch, and can confirm that having done so, the compressor clutch engages and the fan turns on.
That's the bad news. The good news is that nobody has screwed with the A/C yet beyond the quick paperclip test, so it's in the as-previously working state except for whatever has broken.
That's as far as I've gotten. I've been reading A/C related threads as time allows, but I haven't gotten any farther in diagnosing things, or even figuring out what my next step ought to be. I figured I'd hold off on posting about it until I was a little more informed, but here we go :-)
Anybody got a wiring diagram? It's a 2005 EX. I found the one linked below for a 2001 civic.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ml#post4688515
I haven't tried the self-test ezone described farther up that thread yet. I'll give that a go tonight in case the instructions are applicable to a 2005 as well.
I'll also note that the car doesn't seem to have any other random electrical glitches like looktotheson's civic, except that the driver's side rear window doesn't work. I'm tentatively going to chalk that one up to the door harness, though I'll hold off on calling it for sure until I get some time to pull the door card and check for voltage where I expect to find it.
I regret to report that the available diagnostic equipment is limited to a DMM. I don't have a gauge set, and the checkered flag parts store doesn't include them in their tool loaner program :-/
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I jumpered the low-pressure cut-off switch, and can confirm that having done so, the compressor clutch engages and the fan turns on.
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That would indicate the system is low on freon. Start there with pressure check and visual inspection for loss of freon evidence (condenser-- rock damage, oil stains on ac parts, etc) and you will probably be adding freon (or recover/evacuate/recharge), followed by leak testing.
