Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover - Honda Civic Forum

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Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

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Old 04-24-2015
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Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


NOTE: I just posted this, but it didn't show up anywhere? Possibly, as a new member my post had to first be reviewed before being posted. Anyway am posting again in this forum ... hope it works this time ...

Really like this Honda with 123K miles that I recently purchased. No Carfax info about a previous Timing Belt change, not able to get names of previous two owners. Dealer told me to change all belts, water pump, etc, etc. Is it possible it's the original Timing Belt?

Already removed that Drivers Side Motor Mount, Power Steering Pump, Alternator, Valve Cover, Two bolts from the upper Timing Belt Cover and removed all 5 bolts holding that hefty Motor Mount/Alternator Casting to engine block.

Upper TB Cover and Casting is lose, but still can't seem to remove either that Casting or the Upper Timing Belt Cover. There is something on the lower right side where Upper TB Cover interlocks with the Lower TB Cover that is preventing complete removal of that hefty Casting and Upper TB Cover.

One of the Youtubes i watched had a similar problem, but they somehow got the Casting and Upper TB Cover off with some effort. I don't want to break any interlocking tabs on the two covers. I've done some searching here, but couldn't find any thread dealing with this problem.

I've pulled back the Grommet from the Upper Cover, but can't pull out the Sensor. It looks like it would be easier to free the Upper TB Cover and then remove Sensor. When pulling out on the top of the Cover I can see the sensor, but not sure what's preventing it from being pulled free.

I'm taking my time and enjoying this project. Managed to finally loosen the crank bolt this morning using a 6' pipe extension on my 1/2" breaker bar. Hopefully, someone can offer help on freeing Upper TB Cover.

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Old 04-24-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Two bolts from the upper Timing Belt Cover
There are 3 bolts.

Plus the wire connector. You peel back the rubber grommet then squeeze the release tab (with your index finger and thumb?) and pull the connector out. The cam sensor does not come out, nor is it removed during timing belt service.



Is it possible it's the original Timing Belt?
Sure.
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Upper TB Cover and Casting is lose, but still can't seem to remove either that Casting or the Upper Timing Belt Cover. There is something on the lower right side where Upper TB Cover interlocks with the Lower TB Cover that is preventing complete removal of that hefty Casting and Upper TB Cover.
Remove
upper timing cover
lower timing cover
THEN remove the cast bracket from the block.

Install in reverse order.
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Old 04-24-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


Thanks for your replies. Will check tomorrow for that 3rd Upper TB Cover corner bolt. Just finishing going through all 8 pages of Timing Belt DIY 2 taking notes. On the last page it says you need to remove the Bottom TB Cover first before you can free the Alternator bracket for removal. (p. 8 #217)

The procedure presented indicates that the alternator mount bracket should be removed before the upper and lower timing covers. This is incorrect, as the lower timing cover actually goes over the alternator mount bracket. The lower timing cover should come off first, then the alternator mount bracket.
Will post again tomorrow with hopefully a good report

A Couple Other Questions:
1. Whether or not to replace cam and crank seals even if there is no sign of leakage. Appreciate your advice on brand of seals to purchase ... should i decide to replace them.
2. What's your opinion on the Dayco Timing Belt Kit? It comes with a Water Pump? It's less expensive than buying TB kit and Water Pump separately. Dayco Kit has a Lifetime Warrantee (whatever that means).

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Old 04-24-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by MN-02-CivicEx View Post


A Couple Other Questions:
1. Whether or not to replace cam and crank seals even if there is no sign of leakage. Appreciate your advice on brand of seals to purchase ... should i decide to replace them.
It's up to you. If it's leaking already, obviously it needs taken care of while it's apart.
Some seals seem to last past 200k, some don't.
On the plus side, if they seep oil it does not normally get on the timing belt. Usually.

I use Factory seals only.


2. What's your opinion on the Dayco Timing Belt Kit? It comes with a Water Pump? It's less expensive than buying TB kit and Water Pump separately. Dayco Kit has a Lifetime Warrantee (whatever that means).

Not worth it, don't do it.
Price is not what you should be thinking about here....COST is.
"What's the COST of that cheap PRICE?"


That lifetime warranty isn't worth the paper it's written on after their cheap offshore parts destroys your engine.

How much is a tow bill worth? From out of state?
How much does a set of valves cost? Installed?
How much does an engine cost? Installed?
Not worth it.

Hear me now, believe me later: If you want it to last for the next 100,000 miles, use Factory parts only.
They fit right the first time, they work exactly as expected, there is no question about how long they will last.

I'm not saying this just because I work for a dealership either.


Here's a thread from one such unfortunate poster who went cheap on his timing components:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...-happened.html
(clickylink, 2 pages)
There have been many others that found out the hard way....
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Old 04-25-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


That 3rd Upper TB Cover Middle Bolt is well hidden below the Sensor Grommet. Once the Upper TB Cover was free it was easy to see how to remove the Sensor Connector. The two Bottom TB Cover Bolt Ears had apparently been broken away from Cover for some time, so will need to get another Lower TB Cover from Honda. Looks like the Crank Seal will need to be replaced.

The Timing Belt is really loose on long side so assume it's the original TB. Looks like the original Water Pump according to that larger diameter end portion of the WP gear pulley.

Removed the two end Spark Plugs (DENSON PKJ20CR-11), but wasn't able to loosen the middle two plugs with my 3/8" Breaker Bar. There is evidence of some Oil in the Spark Plug tubes holes. Will try to remove the two middle Spark Plugs with my longer 1/2" Breaker Bar.

I really like the Plain Jane simplicity of the 02 Civic EX Dash Layout. Also, not having to press on the clutch to start the engine and all the other features of the EX. The Automatic Transmission/TC was rebuilt at 121K so no worry there.

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Old 04-25-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

The timing belt will always have some slack as the tensioner is floating, not locked.

DO NOT UNPLUG THE CRANK SENSOR!!!!!!! (the bottom sensor)
Unbolt it from the block but leave the wire connected.
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Old 04-25-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
DO NOT UNPLUG THE CRANK SENSOR!!!!!!! (the bottom sensor)
Unbolt it from the block but leave the wire connected.

AOK ... have not unplugged it (and won't). Have not unbolted it yet. Home Depot has a Husky 4-Piece Pick Set ... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Pre...004H/204314893 ... will this be sufficient for removing the Crank Seal?

Applied as much force on the two stubborn Spark Plugs as one would when loosening a Wheel Lug Nut/Bolt with a 1/2" Socket Breaker Bar. Neither Plug has budged even a fraction with any of my attempts. Which of the following two suggestions would you favor or is there another method/trick worth a try?

1. Spray a little Blaster 16-PB Penetrating Catalyst into each tube of the two tubes and let sit overnight. Then try removing the two stubborn plugs again. How much force is too much?

2. When everything is reassembled install the two removed plugs, install valve cover (with old gasket), start engine and let it run for 10-15 minutes to get engine hot. Then try removing the two stubborn plugs again.

Will use anti-seize on new Spark Plugs assuming the two stubborn plugs eventually relent.

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Old 04-25-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

. Home Depot has a Husky 4-Piece Pick Set ... http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Pre...004H/204314893 ... will this be sufficient for removing the Crank Seal?
No, most things like that are too flimsy.

I use a simple flat screwdriver (tip slightly sharpened) most of the time. Drive it straight in between the seal and the case, pull the handle down at about a 45 degree angle, twist it free.

Technique is what you need to study.
There are other ways. Paint can tool, sheet metal screw, etc. Google '
removing the Crank Seal' and you should stay busy for a half hour or so.


How much force is too much?
You'll find that out right after it breaks off.

The plugs usually get stuck either due to being seized (galled, galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar metals) or locked by carbon in the threads due to leaving the plugs loose. Or a completely wrong type of plug.

Go both directions, loosen AND tighten. If the plugs will move at all, keep soaking and work the plug back and forth.

Sometimes an impact gun can work better than doing it by hand, the rapid short vibrations can make the difference.

Be prepared for the worst case, pulling the head to have broken remnants extracted and threads fixed at a machine shop.
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Old 04-28-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by MN-02-CivicEx View Post

The two Bottom TB Cover Bolt Ears had apparently been broken away from Cover for some time, so will need to get another Lower TB Cover from Honda. Looks like the Crank Seal will need to be replaced.
The new Lower Cover has the same problem as the old one in that the bottom of the cover doesn't fit snug against the two engine block bolt holes that line up with the bottom of the Lower Cover. If I were to install and tighten the two bottom bolts the bolts ears on the Cover would be stressed and break off again. Something is preventing the bottom of the Lower Cover from fitting snug against the block. The removed Water Pump and Idler Pulley are identical to the new ones now on the engine block.

The removed Honda Timing Belt showed no signs of wear on inside of belt (no cracks beween teeth). My new TB may be the third on this 1.7L engine. Is it possible the new floating Idler Pulley may be the problem or that Honda gave me the wrong Lower Cover? There is only the one hole that the IP spring can attach to as that Pull Pin is in the other two IP holes. The Spring was/is attached from the back side of the IP so its closer to the engine block so that can't be the problem.

Back to Honda first thing in the morning with VIN #, just in case they gave me the wrong Lower Cover.
______________

UPDATE After Talking With Honda Parts Dept ...

It is the correct part. Gave me a print out of Lower Cover part number for my VIN. My first experience with Honda is that they are very pleasant, helpful and no waiting. Although there were other customers they treated me as if I was a cherished Honda regular.

The Parts Guy talked to a Tech who said the Lower TB Cover needs some encouragement as apparently it is a tight fit. Recommendation was to start top bolt and then tap the bottom end of the Lower Cover with a mallet. It should snap into place for a snug/flush fit against engine block. Will give that a try later this morning and hopefully have it all back together later today.



Last edited by MN-02-CivicEx; 04-28-2015 at 10:40 AM. Reason: UPDATE
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Old 04-28-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by MN-02-CivicEx View Post

The Parts Guy talked to a Tech who said the Lower TB Cover needs some encouragement as apparently it is a tight fit. Recommendation was to start top bolt and then tap the bottom end of the Lower Cover with a mallet.
i dont agree with that at all, in my experience the timing cover slides into place very easily, i have never had to hit it with anything, not even my hand,

i wouldnt put any bolts in or start tightening them until the cover is in place 100%....the bolts are really just holding the cover in place after you get it there, they shouldnt be used to try to "suck" the cover into place

i would have somebody else try the push the cover into place through the wheel well, while you look down from the top into the timing area with a bright light, see if its hitting anything
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Old 04-28-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

If you don't have the cast bracket correctly installed within the folds of the inner plastic covers, then that might make the outer covers difficult to fit properly.

They all seem to eventually break out one of the bolt holes from the lower cover too.


Ill see if I can come up with some pics in a little while.
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Old 04-28-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
If you don't have the cast bracket correctly installed within the folds of the inner plastic covers, then that might make the outer covers difficult to fit properly.

Ill see if I can come up with some pics in a little while.

Pic
Hold cast bracket up against the block flat on both surfaces, them slide it upward until it aligns with the upper cover and all 5 bolts will thread in easily

Screwdriver points to the area in question:






More random pics during 2005 Civic timing belt job this afternoon




















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Old 04-29-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by mikey1 View Post
i dont agree with that at all, in my experience the timing cover slides into place very easily, i have never had to hit it with anything, not even my hand,

i wouldnt put any bolts in or start tightening them until the cover is in place 100%....the bolts are really just holding the cover in place after you get it there, they shouldnt be used to try to "suck" the cover into place

i would have somebody else try the push the cover into place through the wheel well, while you look down from the top into the timing area with a bright light, see if its hitting anything
At first i thought only the two bottom bolt ears were broken off of the old Lower Cover. On closer examination, after coming back from Honda, (and trying again unsuccessfully), finally noticed the problem. When taking a closer look at the old broken Lower Cover I noticed that the upper bolt ear in that deep well was also broken off. The ear and bolt were still in the engine. You are so right ... the Lower Cover fit snug as a bug without any persuasion once the third broken ear and bolt were removed. Did i feel like a dummy ... YES!
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Old 04-29-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Pic
Hold cast bracket up against the block flat on both surfaces, them slide it upward until it aligns with the upper cover and all 5 bolts will thread in easily.
Everything went back together AOK (1st-Lower Cover, 2nd-Alternator Bracket, 3rd-Upper Cover). Had previously turned the Crank CCW to make sure the Cam TDC lined up once again with the Timing Marks at the lower end (Thumbs UP). Hopefully, the engine will Purrrrrrr once again. Got confused when putting on the Harmonic Balancer. I thought the ribbed spline on the Crank Shaft should have extended to the end of the CS. Afterall, why have the ribbed spline inside the Harmonic Balancer if not on the Crank Shaft? Apparently the only thing holding the HB in place is that little key and 180-200 ft. lbs. of torque?

When looking at that one photo you posted the ribbed spline on that crank extends to the end of the shaft. That was what I was expecting, but NO it's smooth. It stopped me in my tracks wondering "What's the deal with this?" But, then if it purred that way for 123K it should be good for another 123K. Then thinking about it again realized there isn't much stress put on the HB when spinning the A/C Compressor, Alternator and Power Steering. YES, i did remember to reattach the Crank Sensor.

I filled up the radiator with coolant before calling it a day and then decided to try once again removing the two middle spark plugs (after 2 days drenched in BP Blaster 16-PB Penetrating Catalyst), but still NO movement. Before hitting the sack i removed the old seals from the Valve Cover and installed the 4 new Valve Cover Seals.

I removed a good Air Filter Compartment from another Civic at U Pull R Parts. Some of the plastic/metal surrounding screws were broken/seized in the Civic EX i recently purchased. The good one i took off another Civic at U Pull R Parts came off easy as the only thing holding it on (after removing those three screws) was the snug fit around the Carb's Intake. However, trying to figure out how to remove the AFC from my CivicEX is a challenge i haven't yet conquered. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Hopefully, will have the damaged AFC Removed and the new/used AFC ON later today. Will also give me an opportunity to check out what's under the AFC (vacuum hoses, etc).
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Old 04-29-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


Another Question on that CU Photo of You holding the Crank Sensor (by the Timing Belt Pulley on the Crank Shaft).

Does that splined Timng Belt Pulley behind the Harmonic Balancer only go on the Crank Shaft one way and only ONE WAY (as its keyed?). The reason i ask is because i put two Whiteout Marks on the old Timing Belt before removing it. One mark was exactly at TDC and the other on the TB where it goes around that Crank Pulley. I transferred the position of these two marks on the removed belt to the new TB (same number of teeth apart on both belts). Then put the new TB on in the same position with the Whiteout Mark on same Cam Tooth at TDC.

However, after installing the Water Pump, Idler Pulley and turning the Crank CCW to double check TDC the topside Whiteout Mark on the belt was now two teeth to the left of TDC. And yet, those two Timing Marks on the Crank Timing Belt Pulley and Engine Housing were in line with each other with the Cam at TDC (UP) and those Cam marks lined up on each each side of the Head. So, according to the Cam (UP) being at TDC and the Crank Marks in line with each other ... the TIMING should be CORRECT ... RIGHT ? As long as the Cam (UP arm) at TDC and the Crank Pulley engraved line is in line with the arrow on Engine Line the TIMNG should be AOK! ... RIGHT ?
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


Another Question with respect to that CU Photo of You holding the Crank Sensor (by the Timing Belt Pulley on the Crank Shaft).

Does that Splined Timng Belt Pulley (behind the Harmonic Balancer) only go on the Crank Shaft one way and only ONE WAY (as its keyed?). The reason i ask is because i put two Whiteout Marks on the old Timing Belt before removing it. One WM was exactly at Cam (Arm UP) TDC and the other on the TB where it goes around that Crank Pulley. I transferred the position of these two marks on the removed TB to the new TB (same number of teeth apart on both belts). Then put the new TB on in the same position with the Whiteout Mark on same Cam Tooth at TDC.

However, after installing the Water Pump, Idler Pulley and turning the Crank CCW to double check TDC the topside Whiteout Mark on the belt was now two teeth to the left of TDC. And yet, those two Timing Marks on the Crank Timing Belt Pulley and Engine Housing were in line with each other with the Cam at TDC (UP) and those Cam marks lined up on each side of the Head. So, according to the Cam (UP) being at TDC and the Crank Marks in line with each other ... the TIMING should be CORRECT ... RIGHT ? As long as the Cam (UP arm) at TDC and the Crank Pulley engraved line is in line with the arrow on Engine Line the TIMNG should be AOK! ... RIGHT ?

Last edited by MN-02-CivicEx; 04-29-2015 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 04-29-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by MN-02-CivicEx View Post


However, after installing the Water Pump, Idler Pulley and turning the Crank CCW to double check TDC the topside Whiteout Mark on the belt was now two teeth to the left of TDC. And yet, those two Timing Marks on the Crank Timing Belt Pulley and Engine Housing were in line with each other with the Cam at TDC (UP) and those Cam marks lined up on each side of the Head. So, according to the Cam (UP) being at TDC and the Crank Marks in line with each other ... the TIMING should be CORRECT ... RIGHT ? As long as the Cam (UP arm) at TDC and the Crank Pulley engraved line is in line with the arrow on Engine Line the TIMNG should be AOK! ... RIGHT ?
go by the marks on the engine/crank/cam,

if they all line up you should be fine
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Apparently the only thing holding the HB in place is that little key and 180-200 ft. lbs. of torque?
Yup. The key is only there to keep it correctly aligned during assembly....After torquing, the bolt does all the holding.


to remove the AFC from my CivicEX is a challenge i haven't yet conquered. Any suggestions would be most appreciated
There is like a large hose clamp around the base of the filter housing at the throttle body that needs loosened.



Does that splined Timng Belt Pulley behind the Harmonic Balancer only go on the Crank Shaft one way and only ONE WAY (as its keyed?).
Right. Reluctor teeth outward.


because i put two Whiteout Marks on the old Timing Belt before removing it.
You know what's wrong with this method?

If it was wrong to begin with, your new one will be wrong too. (When one does this all the time, one learns to never trust the last guy that had his grubby mitts in there, he might have been an idiot.)

Use the factory timing markings and methods.
At least double check against the factory marks before you close it up. Factory marks are always trustworthy.


See the pic of the steel ruler aligned with one side of the cam gear, the slashes stamped in the edge of the gear in two places are the timing marks. The word UP is only used for orientation, and so one may know which cylinder should be at TDC (#1 or #4) when adjusting valves.

belt was now two teeth to the left
I wrap around crank and cam first so I can check marks as I go, then around the water pump and lastly the tensioner pulley.


the TIMING should be CORRECT ... RIGHT
Always refer to the factory timing marks.



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Old 04-30-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover


Thanks for all the helpful replies from you all

The photos were helpful. It seems nowadays everyone wears the blue protective hand wear ... except me (formerly a Pressman with inky fingers). A couple days ago, when up to my elbows, a neighbor kid watching me said i should wash my hands ... they were black & blacker with greasy dirt. Heck, i still use gasoline to clean my hands before appiying that orange scented goop to finish the cleanup. That Engine Degreaser that O'Reilly sells for degreasing the engine, etc is worthless. Important to mention that all my auto projects (including cleanup) are done outside under the sun with a breeze of fresh air always present.

The protective spash guard covering the Harmonic Balancer and A/C Compressor Pulley was missing so am fabricating one to fit from another Honda. Also the nearby lower front wheel fender liner needs some refab with partial liner i removed from another Salvage Yard Civic. Still have to figure out how to remove the abused Air Filter Compartment and reinstall with a good/used U Pull R Parts replacement.

I reinstalled the two DENSO PK16TR11 Long Life Platinum Power Spark Plugs after first applying some plug anti-seize. IF these plugs are good for 200K+ then leave well enough alone with the two middle stubborn DENSO PK16TR11 plugs that won't budge.

Don't know if i'll even get around to [hopefully] starting the engine before sunset. You know the old saying ... "Don't have enough time to make sure it's done right the first time, but always find enough time to make sure it's done right the second time." It's an expression common in the Printing business when a customer in a hurry wants the finished product ASAP, if not sooner. At 70 years young and retired i now take my time with occasional breaks, plus i have my backup car.


Last edited by MN-02-CivicEx; 04-30-2015 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 04-30-2015
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Heck, i still use gasoline to clean my hands
Carcinogen, and gas can be absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream. Not good.

I've known some older mechanics who developed serious skin problems, and I started thinking about how much time my hands have been spent with a layer of used motor oil (carcinogen) and it kinda scared me. A lot. Now I use the gloves as much as I can.

It cuts down on cleaning too. I might only need to wash my hands 2-5 times a day instead of 30. Dry cracked bleeding skin is no longer a daily reminder of what I do for a living LOL



Aaaand there was a time that I dated this chick that kinda had a rubber glove fetish but maybe we shouldn't talk about that here.

IF these plugs are good for 200K+ then leave well enough alone with the two middle stubborn DENSO PK16TR11 plugs that won't budge.
Usual replacement interval is 100,000 miles or so.....
Wear wise, the plugs will probably go that far (200k) without opening up the spark gap a bunch like old plain plugs will. As long as nothing fouls them out like oil
burning they may be ok. ...

Are they really original plugs? Did someone else booger them up?




"Don't have enough time to make sure it's done right the first time, but always find enough time to make sure it's done right the second time."
A previous employer had a sign like that on the wall. "But there's always enough time to do it over."
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Carcinogen, and gas can be absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream. Not good.

I've known some older mechanics who developed serious skin problems, and I started thinking about how much time my hands have been spent with a layer of used motor oil (carcinogen) and it kinda scared me. A lot. Now I use the gloves as much as I can.

It cuts down on cleaning too. I might only need to wash my hands 2-5 times a day instead of 30. Dry cracked bleeding skin is no longer a daily reminder of what I do for a living LOL
Very True, and yet some still smoke like a chimney. At least they won't ever become adicted to gasoline and develop serious skin problems.

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Are they really original plugs? Did someone else booger them up?
When i finally got the lower Air Filter Compartment removed I noticed a couple parts with DENSO labels. Do you think these DENSO PK16TR11 LONG LIFE PLATINUM POWER SPARK PLUGS were originally installed by Honda? Assumed them to be the original plugs. The sorry looking filthy Air Filter i removed was the worst i've ever seen. The tightening screw in that heavy duty clamp was so, sooo rusted that the only way to remove it was to cut through the screw portion of the clamp with my disk grinder. Once removed the vacuum hoses were alright, but needed an application of my secret rubber revitalizer. Putting on the like new Salvage Yard replacement took some force as well as finesse, but i didn't need to hit it with a mallet While i was tightening the clamp screw on the replacement the neighborhood Ice Cream Ding-A-Ling Van came by so time to take a break and have a cold Fudge Bar.

Finished installing the modified spash guard to protect the A/C Compressor Pulley and Harmonic Balancer. Also repaired the nearby lower part of the Fender Well Liner. Thought I would have the Valve Cover on by now ... maybe will still get everything else that needs to be done under the hood yet today ... even if i have to use a Trouble Light to FINISH. Then give it a rest, sleep on it and take a mental inventory of anything I may have forgotten to do. Will wait to install the battery tomorrow morning and then turn the Key ... don't want to rush these things

The day was spent running too many errands, putsy modifications and checking on some of my Bluebird Nestboxes to see how many eggs have hatched so far.

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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Somehow the size of the print in these replies got really big.
DENSO PK16TR11
I assume you are in the US?

The USA parts catalog lists PKJ20CR-M11 for the Denso choice 2001-05 for all trims,
Also shows PZFR6F-11 in NGK for DX and LX trims.

So....I think your PK16 plugs were not original.


HTH
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
I assume you are in the US? The USA parts catalog lists PKJ20CR-M11 for the Denso choice 2001-05 for all trims. Also shows PZFR6F-11 in NGK for DX and LX trims.

So....I think your PK16 plugs were not original.
According to the VIN it was assembled in Japan. The DX and LX 1.7L has 115 hp; whereas the EX 1.7L has 127 hp.

Latest SOTA DENSO Replacement Plugs for PK16TR11 LONG LIFE PLATINUM POWER PLUGS are:
Denso Iridium ... IK16
Denso Iridium stk ... 5303
My FINAL attempt at removing the two stubborn middle plugs will be as follows ...

Warm the engine (aluminum head) for just a couple minutes. Assuming it will start when i turn the KEY. Then put a smaller deep well socket that will fit over porcelain. Do a ginger hammer tap, tap, tap on the metal shoulder of the plug. Then get the cold spark plug socket out of the freezer and put it over the plug for a couple minutes, but not so far as to contact the aluminum head. Then another ginger hammer tap, tap, tap on the metal shoulder with the other socket. THEN try wiggling the plug free with my 1/2" Breaker Bar and my "cool" spark plug socket with some finesse. Hopefully, i can get one of them to relent and maybe both. If not the four PK16TR11 may be good for 200+

At least 127 horses are going to get some Fresh Air now that i've fixed the Air Filter Compartment and installed a clean filter.


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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

plugs should always be removed with the head cold, i wouldn't advise starting it and warming it up, that would do more harm then good,

i know this doesn't help you now, but it would have been wise to tackle the plugs first before you replaced the timing belt,

now if you strip a plug you need to do all (or most) of that work over again
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by mikey1 View Post
plugs should always be removed with the head cold, i wouldn't advise starting it and warming it up, that would do more harm then good,

i know this doesn't help you now, but it would have been wise to tackle the plugs first before you replaced the timing belt,

now if you strip a plug you need to do all (or most) of that work over again
Decided afterall to leave well enuf alone. Did try tapping on plug (with engine cold), but without any success what-so-ever. When looking down it the plug tubes (at the bottom) where the plugs reside i noticed a difference between the two outside plugs and the two middle ones (that won't budge).

Can see what looks like a thin shiny metal ring surrounding the bottom of the two outside plugs (1&4). Wish i had a photo to post, but basically the shiny thin ring isn't touching either the plug or the wall of the tube. Whereas with the two middle plugs (2&3) there is only darkness/black between the inside of the tube wall and the base of the two stubborn plugs.

Wondering, if perhaps the aluminum threads around plugs 2&3 had already been stripped during a previous removal. Do you think a garage mechanic may have used some kind of epoxy when reinserting these two plugs to secure them? They wouldn't budge what-so-ever even after soaking two days in Blaster 16-PB Penetrating Catalyst and then using my 1/2" socket breaker bar with almost as much torque as it takes to loosen lug nuts.

Oh, by the way no screws or "thing-a-ma-jig" or "what's that for" left over. And i did remember to attach those two connectors just to the left front of the Valve Cover. Then just as I was finishing up before installing the battery a 3/8" extension with 10mm socket attached accidentally got pushed down the inside of the fender well. Fortunately it didn't go too far although it was well hidden. Was able to finger it out with some touch and go finesse. Installed the battery and ready to put the key in the ignition.

Turned the key and the engine started immediately and purrrs ... Yippee, Skippy! I also added more coolant while the engine was running so assumed it was good to go. Got the tire but couldn't remember where i put the 4 stud nuts. Looked all over and finally found them lying on the Living Room rug with some other miscellaneous stuff i had previously removed from my old decrepit metal tool box (still works).

So it's now about 9:30pm and my hands are clean and ready to celebrate with some pie at Perkins. On the way i notice that the needle on the Temp Guage is close to middle and then starts to rise all the way to HOT. So pull off the road, park and wait. Then head back home after stopping another time to let it cool down again before making the last leg home and calling it a day.

First thing this morning back to the EX with a funnel and coolant. It was thirstier than i thought. Finally had its fill and now everything seems to be AOK with the Temp hanging closer to 1/3 instead of 1/2 up on gauge.. My only complaint now is i can't turn on the radio ... says i need to enter a "code" ... And here i thought such inconveniences were NOT available on an 02 EX. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow. Do i now need to make another trip to Honda to have them tell me the privy code from the VIN ? Although, i do enjoy their coffee bar choices, cookie choices, fruit basket choices, free wi-fi, reading the newspaper or just sitting in one of the showfloor Hondas and taking in the NEW smell (much better than gasoline). Maybe, there's another Honda part i need to get like an extra Key ($39). They do give me a senior discount so a screw or nut normally priced at $6 or $7 ONLY costs me $3 or $4.

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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Do you think a garage mechanic may have used some kind of epoxy when reinserting these two plugs to secure them?
I've seen some awfully stupid stuff done over the years, but that would be a first.

I think it's more likely they were never properly tightened and now the seeping combustion gases have discolored the bottoms of the 2 tubes and carbon buildup in the threads has them effectively locked in place.


says i need to enter a "code"
Find the code first.

Radio code card with your owners stuff?


You see that sticker on the card with the serial number and the 5 digit code?
The car came with two of those stickers (or more), one to go on the card and the other to be stuck to the car.
Look all over the glovebox, inside and outside, front back top bottom, outside panels both from the drivers seat and from the passengers door. It could have the 5 digit code, or it could have just the serial number.


Whomever did the new car prep could have placed that sticker anywhere on the car...or not at all.

Look in the owners manuals too. It could be written somewhere.

You should also be able to obtain the serial number from the radio with a button dance, then use that info to get the unlock code.

More info here https://www.civicforums.com/forums/182-7th-gen/346273-how-recover-your-radio-code.html
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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Find the code first.

Radio code card with your owners stuff?


You see that sticker on the card with the serial number and the 5 digit code?
The car came with two of those stickers (or more), one to go on the card and the other to be stuck to the car.
Look all over the glovebox, inside and outside, front back top bottom, outside panels both from the drivers seat and from the passengers door. It could have the 5 digit code, or it could have just the serial number.


Whomever did the new car prep could have placed that sticker anywhere on the car...or not at all.

Look in the owners manuals too. It could be written somewhere.

You should also be able to obtain the serial number from the radio with a button dance, then use that info to get the unlock code.

More info here https://www.civicforums.com/forums/182-7th-gen/346273-how-recover-your-radio-code.html
I held down #1 and #6 as instructed then turned on the radio. the 1st 2-part display was u 2413 and the 2nd two part display to appear was L 2581. It did this sequence twice and then return to "COdE" display, but don't have a clue what you do next.

No can find owners Radio Code Card. However, on the back page of the Owners Manual is scribbled in blue ink "6-4325" (at least i think it's a "5"). What's with the dash between the 6 and 4 ?

Appreciate you staying with me. So, what do i do next now that i've retrieved "u 2413" and "L 2581" ?

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Re: Can't Seem To Remove Upper Timing Belt Cover

Sorry, I must have been snoozing or something.
on the back page of the Owners Manual is scribbled in blue ink "6-4325"
No clue about the dash.

OK so it looks like it could be a radio code, so enter that using the station presets in the sequence 64325 and see if the radio comes on.

Enter the first digit and the letter C shows on the display.
Enter the second digit and the letter O shows on the display
Enter the third digit and the letter D shows on the display
Etc.
If you have already pushed buttons you have to get a total of 5 digits in there in order to start over at the beginning. You get something like 6 tries before you must reset the radio.

Your owners manual should explain this in detail better than I can.




IF THAT is not the correct code:
display was u 2413 and the 2nd two part display to appear was L 2581
Serial number is 24132581.

Take that serial number and follow the directions in the first post of that thread linked in the previous reply.


Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Record your vehicle Identification number.


Once you have that then you need to visit.. https://radio-navicode.honda.com/


If you are not the one who bought the car from the dealer and have not updated your information you should do so. Visit http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/ But for now lets continue.

since you cannot fill out all the required info then all you need to do is call
1-800-999-1009
With all your info.

This will take all of 5 minutes and all of YOUR information will be recorded with Honda. This is also FREE you should not have to pay for your code..
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