mclld

2001 civic ex auto

Last year I had the timing belt, water pump and head gasket replaced. It has been driving fine. I was going down the highway at 70 and my car lost power. I came to a stop and when I try to start it it sort of sounds like it is trying to turn over but it isnt. The battery is good, I looked under the hood and on the ground and no leaks and my fluid levels are good.


When I say it won't turn over I mean it goes through the motions but it sounds like the starter isn't Turing it over like it should. It wouldn't be a starter though because that wouldn't make it die would it?

ezone

No, the starter can't make it DIE while driving. The starter is only there to get the engine started..

Run out of gas?
Check engine light codes?


Try to describe what happens without using the ambiguous term "turning over".
Does the electric starter motor operate?
Does the electric starter motor engage the engine flywheel and rotate the engine crankshaft?
I assume it does both of these, yet the engine does not sustain combustion on its own.
Does it crank unevenly, like ruhruhweeeeruhruhweeeruhruhweeeruhruhweee?

Remove the oil fill cap and look inside. You should be able to see at least one of the rocker arms down in there.....Have someone crank the engine while you watch for that rocker arm to move.....If it does not move, then you may have chucked the timing belt. Further inspection would be necessary.
I might predict a tow truck in your future.


Any engine needs to have spark, fuel, and compression...In the proper amounts and at the correct times.

Good luck

ezone

Maybe your 'thrifty' parts just caught up with you.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post4648200

mclld

I had it towed

"Does it crank unevenly, like ruhruhweeeeruhruhweeeruhruhweeeruhruhweee?"

Just ruhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

ezone

You were all about cheap on critical timing parts.

What's the cost of that cheap price now?

$1000?
$1500?
Higher?









The fleabay seller was


Seriously?

For $48 were the parts knitted from an old scarf?

kinakoes2

Bent valves... *sigh*

Gotta watch out with lowest-bidder parts, man. The diminishing returns can swallow your entire car whole (as in, the cost of repair can exceed the value of the car if you're really unlucky).

I hated getting bent over by the cost of 4 Denso OEM plugs and an LAF sensor, but installed correctly, they'll still be working flawlessly long after I sell it. In fact, whoever gets my car next will be getting a pretty solid deal... just gotta convince someone to pay more than they would for a Parts Wiz car. :P

On the bright side... this is a good opportunity to swap the head gasket with an OEM one.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

Bent valves for sure. You're describing the same sounds my car made when my TDC sensor bolt ate my timing belt.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Goodbye... valves... It was nice knowing ya.

mikey1

an engine with a broken timing belt will normally crank alot faster when you attempt to start it, is it doing this? or maybe it is and your just not noticing it,

in any case i agree with the others

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Stop cranking it though. The more you crank the more damage you can do. The bottom of the engine is spinning and the top is saying F U.

mikey1

i agree that continuing to crank the engine is pointless, however i disagree that more damage can be done, the valves that are stuck open are already crushed, so no more damage can really be done

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Keep smashing that piston into the valve and see what happens.

kinakoes2

Might be a consideration if the valve head broke off the stem... but otherwise, I agree with mikey1. Remember that there are still valve springs pulling the valve as far as it'll go into the pocket. With a 4V head the valve stems are so thin they only need to be bent once, and then they can no longer contact the piston. It's like a piece of styrofoam in a helmet liner -- you crush it once, and it doesn't spring back to be contacted again.

Even at max lift the valve can only be bent one way, and remember that the starter doesn't spin the crank anywhere near even idle speed.

The severe service rpms, compression ratios, cam profiles and overlap with barely-adequate piston-to-valve clearances of a frontline sportbike motor are far more extreme than in a D17, so it may be good advice for them... but even so, that's where I get my reccies from. As long as the crank isn't spinning at service rpm, there's little chance damage will continue to occur on the starter.

That said though... quit trying to start the dang motor, and get that head off!

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I think we scared him off, guys.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand. You guys are okay with continuing to hit the piston into the valve? And you are both 100% sure that no more damage can occur?

Haha yea Josh we did for sure.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Anyway.... A good read: http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar1192.htm

Stock 99

Oh yeah...I'm pretty sure ezone's crack about parts being made out of a knitted scarf was pretty much the end of him.

Meh....truth hurts sometimes. Hopefully a lesson learned for everyone who uses bargin basement parts for critical engine functions.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Yep. Hopefully that's not the problem however.... I'm almost positive it is. ezone called it a year ago.

ezone

What's done is done. If the valves are already bent, not much else can happen by cranking more except maybe killing the battery or roasting the starter.

It's not like someone is gonna pull the head off and replace the valves twice because he kept cranking on it.



This.


MY crack?? LOL.

Should I have phrased it "whittled from PINE"?
"Hand formed using wet beach sand"?
(should voting be enabled on this?)

Will Rogers said, "There's three kinds of people.
There's them that can learn from others,
There's them that can learn from books,
And there's them that has to whizz on the electric fence for themselves."




Sometimes the crystal ball works better than others.

kinakoes2

Hahahahaha -- word. Have a feeling there's folk here with sodium sensitivity.

Speaking just for me, I didn't think the comment was *that* bad... besides, there was a precedent with the guy insisting on cheap parts. How'd that work for him? If you want to shake hands it requires both sides to extend theirs to the middle.

And no disrespect intended or implied, BlueEM2... but if bent valves don't destroy an 11500 rpm, shim-under-bucket R1 motor from a botched chain tensioner install... a skipped belt isn't going to destroy the head on a rocker arm D17 spinning at starter speed. The damage was done and done in the initial contact. If you can turn the crank over 2 revs by hand with the plugs out, there is no more contact, thus no more damage.

I kinda see what you're getting at, though. Your scenario assumes a valve head is bouncing around free of the stem (super-unlikely on a stock street motor) -- THAT can force head replacement in a hurry at service rpm... but it'll still prevent a starter from turning the crank if contact occurs, so again, very little likelihood of 'smashing'. My opinions are from (hasty, rushed) rebuilds on race motors and same by non-certified shadetrees on their own bikes on my lift.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

ezone. I normally agree with you but not in this case. If there are fragments of the valves stuck in the cylinder and you move the pistons up and down you can scar the cylinder walls potentially destroying the block. Also, if you continue to wallop the damaged valves with the piston there is a chance to destroy pistons. It makes 0 sense to continue cranking.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Tom, it's kinakoes, not ezone

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha yea. I always err on the side of safety Even though I'd be the guy cranking it for twenty minutes cursing why it won't start.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

BTW guys. Sometimes I argue on here just to make it more interesting lol. This site is dead lately and I need entertainment one way or another

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

This has been confirmed as true via Facebook post.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

How dare you

ezone

Me??

OP had his engine cash out at 70 MPH. 3K RPM or so. Cranking it now isn't going to hurt it any worse.

Whomever he towed it to will be grinding on the starter to figure out what happened too.






--------------------

Word of the day: Exhaustipated......Just too tired to give a sh*t.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Fair enough

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

second that, josh

rest well tonight!

kinakoes2

Hahahaha -- touché, my Canadian friend. Since your countrymen built my Civic (and it's surprisingly free of any nasty surprises save the usual D17 stuff), feel free to stir the puddle at any time... I do like a good debate, as long as the participants have input of value -- and by value, I agree comic relief is included.

BTW... it's really hard to score cylinder walls without fragmenting valves or valve seats... and the metal used in valves is designed with high tensile strength to bend rather than break, within spec (you can't tell Ford that though, who've had SPI 2.0L sintered valve seats fall out and shatter in cold-weather Escorts and Focuses at any mileage, and boatanchoring the motor, for a thumbs-in-ears 12 yrs). I've seen valve heads bend parallel to a stem in a severe detonation failure, but not break. HTS is vital for valves, because of the super-high reciprocating Gs the valve heads are supposed to pull. If the hit when driving at highway speed bent the valve out of harm's way, the engine IIRC will lose spark and fuel immediately anyway via PCM, as cam and crank sensors won't agree. Very little chance of damage on the starter.