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So, I'm burning oil. This is where I need you guys to read before answering. It's not head gasket leak burn oil where I get blue smoke, and honestly, it may not even be that I'm burning it. I did an oil change at 5k miles, which yes I know is pushing it, but in the past I ran a larger filter and it was fine, and only had 2 quarts left, last time I did it at 4k with the normal sized filter and it wasn't even showing up on the dip stick. I had to add oil to run BGs Quick Clean so I'm not really even sure how much was left. There's no oil spill stains under my car ever, and I'm not burning blue smoke. I use castrol gtx high mileage, with a fram ultra guard filter. Also, I'm at 165k miles.

 
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Quote:

Read before answering please!

You may as well just call me out by name. We all know I can't read!

Hell, I'll derp here just to keep my typing fingers limber.


I read your post several times, I don't see any question at all.
So I can post this:




I'm an ***, right?
------------------------------------------------------













#1, if oil is disappearing and there are no external leaks, then it's burning it.
All engines burn oil (it's part of the design) no matter if anyone can see it or not....It's just that some engines burn more or less oil than others.

It's not a head gasket, they don't normally fail that way.

How fast is it using oil?
You ran 5000 miles and had 2 quarts left.
That's only about 1.5 quarts gone in 5k miles!
You don't have anything to complain about IMO, You're doing a lot better than many!
Hell, a quart per 1000 miles is acceptable, even if it's not desirable. You really have to check the oil more often. If you don't, it could cost you an engine.

Your oil consumption doesn't seem like anything I'd worry about, I'd just check it more often and top it off when needed.

Is it using oil fast enough to foul the spark plugs? Thick white ashy buildup on the plugs?



Likely causes of oil consumption (even though yours seems slight)
Driving habits. High speed, high loads?
PCV: Probably not an issue, but worth a check.
Rings: Worn (mileage and poor air filtration), stuck (carbon buildup in the ring grooves), lined up gaps, collapsed (severe overheat).

What can you do about rings? Not much. Deal with it, rebuild, or replace.

Or pick a different oil if they are stuck.

Look for and use 5w20 oil with specs of:
ILSAC GF-5
ACEA A1/B1
API SN (or higher)
You can actually run 0w20 if you wish, Honda approves of it.

"Thicker" or "thinner" oils don't always affect oil consumption the way most people expect.



I've been using our Honda spec 5w20 oil in my GFs Saturn for quite a while now. It had a lifetime of discount oil changes and it USED to drink a quart of oil every 500 miles. Now it's up to 1500 or more per quart, simply by selecting the oil I did. It's slowly cleaning the carbon from the ring grooves as it runs every day. No extra work involved on my part..

 
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Well mines 4 quarts so that's 50% of my oil. That doesn't seem like much I guess compared to that Saturn, but it didn't use to be like that. I haven't changed oil types/brand or filter type/brand. I drive it a little fast, but only until I get to the speed limit. Not talking tire squeal fast just keep up with traffic fast. It's my dd so it's not like I race it.

 
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Ok, that makes it around 2500 miles per quart(?), which is still perfectly acceptable IMO.
(I'm used to these engines holding 3.5 quarts at an oil change, not 4.)

It's not a new car anymore. It's got 165k of wear, questionable air filtration, questionable oil specifications, (and I have no idea of it's maintenance history)......etc. All can affect how well the rings can do their job of controlling oil.


Your owners manual probably says to check your fluid levels at every fuel fill up.

Here's something else to think about: When you let the oil get super low, the engine parts that rely on oil splash for lubrication tend to suffer accelerated wear. That's mainly the rings, piston skirts, and cylinder walls that suffer. Engines tend to continue consuming oil at an increased rate after that 'low oil' event, the damage is already done.

I wrote about the Saturn to give an example of how something as simple as choosing an oil with different specifications can have a profound effect on oil consumption.


How long have you been using the Castrol GTX High Mileage oil?
What specs does your Castrol oil meet?

 
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I bought the car with 112k miles on it. Had oil changes done by a shop for a while as I was recovering from a surgery and couldn't do any work that would put strain on my neck. At about 125k is where I took over and started doing the work myself. I have always used the gtx when i did the change with the exception of once or twice when they didn't have the "high mileage" then I just used the regular kind. For air filter I was using puralater until I put in a k&n stock replacement filter. That was added about 20k miles ago. For the oil filter I always use a fram ultra guard. The only variant was once when I used a k&n filter, wasn't really impressed, and a couple times when I used a larger filter in an attempt to help the oil last longer. At 116k had the timing belt and water pump done and at 150k did the cam shafts sensor and replaced the cat as it had been ruined from driving too much with the failed sensor. Other then that it's been smooth sailing.

 
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So which oil weight have you been using? 10w30? 10w40?

 
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5w20 like the cap says.

 
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On their 5w20 I've found ratings of
API SN and ILSAC GF-5 (which are good IMO)
but no ACEA rating that I could easily find on a web search.
Not a big deal right now anyway I guess.


At any rate, you are gonna have to check and top off your oil far more frequently than you have been up to this point. I'd expect more oil consumption as mileage accumulates in the future.

If you don't keep up with the oil consumption, you will pay "the tax".

 
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I spoke to my mechanic tonight, he said the same thing. Said it was pretty normal for this to happen. I was just shocked because I am used to putting 4 quarts in and getting that back out. My brother recommended using Lucas oil additive, do you have any experience with it?

 
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Post #2 has the description of what I'd put in the crankcase.
AFAIK there are no additives that are approved or recommended by the manufacturer.

I wouldn't even run your high mileage oil.

 
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Why not run high mileage?

 
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As someone who used to run high mileage oil, this is what happened to me, but not on our Civic but on or 98 Olds with a 3.8k motor.

I ran Valvoline 75,000 oil when we hit 100k miles. It has 183k on it now. I started seeing oil consumption go up, like the 1st post. Not smoking that I could see,, not leaking, engine ran great, but used 2 to 2.5 qts in 4000 miles or so. I used to be a ASE tech, so I asked a buddy in a local shop.

He told me on the 3.8 that they have low...low tension oil scrapers and that the high mileage oils with the additive package, puts a glaze or sheen over the oil control rings, oil consumption goes up.

He steered me to straight 30 wt Rotella, non synthetic. He said that oil, over time would clean the ring package back up, IF it was going to clean up. At that mileage he said no guarantees, it may have too much buildup, the engine may have too many miles on it and it may not change the oil consumption, but that they had tried the trick and sometimes it worked for them. I dumped the oil, changed to Rotella, and it took about 2 more changes over 8 or 9 months on straight 30wt. But my oil consumption went back down to about 3/4 to a quart low after 4k miles.

Will this help you? I don't know. I won't claim it as a cure all, or the special secret trick that will give you your low consumption back. It did help me and the 3.8. I stuck with Rotella in that engine, as it is a low rpm, not run hard engine.

Good luck with it.
Dadrider.

 
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I'n not a fan of Lucas or any other additive. If you use good oil there really is no need for any additional additives.

 
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I will say when I had used the regular kind, it didn't seem to get as dark, I don't remember how much was left, probably pretty close to 4Q, this was before it started burning though. I was under the impression that part of the reason it got so black was because of the amount of...stuff...it absorbed. I realize oil is a lubricant, but I thought it was also absorbed something?

 
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What oil do use? What engine you got?

 
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Word.

My favorite oil to use a quart in four, is Rotella-T diesel engine oil. It has far more additives than any gas engine will need, so it'll clean much faster and deeper than any car oil, and won't affect viscosity like an a shelf additive will -- it's developed into the oil from the start. TBH, any diesel engine oil will probably clean well, but I only have exp with the Shell stuff.

No worries about if it'll lubricate properly, as I've run this oil in my endurance racing SV650 at 7-9K for 45 mins a shift for 4-6 hrs -- and had no loss in compression come teardown time (once a season). Parts are gleaming clean like aluminum jewels, too.

Run this as ezone advises, just letting the oil do its job through normal use... and you'll see some consumption go away -- the safest and sanest solution... just a bit faster than with a car oil.

 
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Diesel oil in a none diesel car? Why don't you guys like Lucas?

 
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I wasn't the one that suggested Rotella.
I usually advocate the correct spec oils, unless something else is needed.

Wanna hear about pouring ATF in the engine instead? Don't pour ATF in.

PJB already said it: "If you use good oil there really is no need for any additional additives."




The oil that keeps our cars alive can ruin a European engine in a short time.
The oil that keeps European engines alive can ruin our engines in a short time.
Both oil bottles might even "say" the same weight, such as 5w30... But they are vastly different oils when correct specs are adhered to.




There is far more to engine oil than meets the eye. Fluids are application engineered nowadays.
Lubrication technology has advanced exponentially in the last couple decades.
Brand names mean very little, except for the brands that print misleading wording on the labels to make consumers THINK they met certain specs, when they really don't.

Specs are everything.

The more you REALLY learn about oil, the more you realize just how little you know. If you're smart.

 
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So don't run diesel? With the Lucas, I thought the whole point was that it helped keep the oil in the cylinders hence minimizing ring, bearing and piston wear?

 
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I did not say that either.



I don't need to believe the hype.



In the end, it's your engine and you can pour in whatever you want.

 
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Dude, you gotta read the context a bit closer. "Run this as ezone advises, just letting the oil do its job through normal use..." emphasis on 'letting the oil do its job through normal use.' No one said you endorsed diesel oil, and no one was saying you said something you didn't.

I wouldn't advocate using diesel engine oil in a gas engine, unless I had experience with teardowns on a gas engine that ran it, very hard. If it worked fine for my SVs, it's more than ready for a Civic.

I'm not so sure the 7th gen is THAT picky on oil. Think about the Honda engines that Brazil or Mexico get. Do you think Brazilians have access to the same quality of off-shelf oil we get? Probably not, as their citizens inhabit a much lower financial demographic than we do, so they have to run cheaper products. Does Honda really make the Fit-derived Vezel specifically for Brazilian oil? With the amount of content they're already taking out of US cars... I'd say no, they don't have the capital to engineer just for the Third World -- with the possible exception of Mexican cars. They have to be able to run the cheapest stock ands still meet engineering goals. Does that make them last longer? No. Is it still acceptable? Yes.

 
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Diesel engine oil: it's made for far dirtier, carbon-, acid- and sludge-filled environments than gas engines, so its additive package is more than enough to accelerate cleaning in a gasoline engine. Plus, I've run it in my racebike two seasons for up to 6 hrs at power peak, and did not consume extra oil, see galling on the piston skirt, or even carbon buildup on the piston crown. It works great. Oil rings were shiny as the moment I installed them.

Lucas: Band-aid product. If your engine is consuming oil, it's more likely because its rings are adhered in their ring grooves by carbon from too much octane, bad fueling, malfunctioning emissions equipment, too much idling, etc. Adding an oil thickener would be exactly the wrong thing to do, as what you want is oil that will penetrate and dissolve the deposits and free the rings. By thickening the oil, you've just reduced its ability to do just that.

 
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use of "less than ideal" oil.

 
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I was only asking to learn. It was said the more you know the better, so I am trying to understand what Lucas does and if diesel oil is safe/worth running. In the grand scheme I want my car to run at peak performance for as long as possible.

 
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If you really want to learn a lot about oil and additives then check out

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 
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Sure, it's what we all want. Lucas thickens oils, as it's a 'viscosity stabilizer'. It's allowed to be used in automobiles, and there are some that swear by it. But in hearing ezone's advice on just running the spec oil, and seeing the teardown results of running Lucas in my own arena of experience... I agree with him, it (Lucas, to be clear) is not the best long-term solution (it's not a solution I'd use in any case tbh).

There is nothing in the Honda service literature recommending the use of Rotella diesel engine oil to accelerate cleaning of ring adhesion causing oil consumption, for those that feel the need to put Honda's lit on a pedestal. But since I've seen it work in both my Paseo and in my Suzuki SV650 racebike (two vastly different vehicles with vastly different duty cycles, revs, and hp/liter)... I'd say use it. It's a forum, so I take no responsibility if your Civic explodes, which it won't. But I have enough personal exp to stand by its use in my own Civic.

Give it a try, it's cheap, too -- anywhere you can buy diesel engine oil, but it's cheapest at Wally World IME. If you don't like it, change back to a car oil. But all of the vehicles in my sig except the VFR have used it, no harm done.

 
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Lubricating oil is responsible for controlling a substantial amount of heat within the engine.
Kinematic viscosity of oil determines the flow rate and cooling effect of the oil.


Pistons run extremely hot. The volume of oil in this area is small and therefore the oil temperatures increase significantly without much impact on overall oil temp. It's localized cooking. The heat cooks the oil film in the ring grooves, resulting in carbon buildup that causes the rings to stick (the rings are supposed to be free to conform to the cylinder walls).

Modern engines use ultra-low tension rings that are very thin, they are used to reduce parasitic drag in effort to increase efficiency. These types of rings are extremely susceptible to deposits and sticking, more than ever before.
In interest of emissions, the rings are moved closer up the piston toward the combustion area. Even closer to the heat.

Low kinematic viscosity is essential for proper cooling of these critical areas (piston rings, ring lands, and ring grooves). Thicker oil increases the oil temperature and ring area temperature.


This is but one aspect of the many different jobs that engine oil is responsible for.


The goal is to have low enough kinematic viscosity to provide proper cooling to the piston areas but still have enough dynamic viscosity to provide adequate protection for other components.

The needs of the pistons and rings are quite different from the needs of bearings, valvetrain, and timing chains. Various valvetrain designs have vastly different lubrication needs too.



================


Remember what I said up there
An ACEA A3/B3 approved SAE 5w30 is significantly thicker than an ACEA A1/B1 approved 5w30.
This is an example of why specs are important.

=======================

(Some of this is paraphrased from notes I have saved. Thanks to K. McCartney.)

 
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ezone, thank you for the clarification. kinakoes, what weight oil do I need? I'd like to try using the diesel for a little while and see if that helps.

 
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ezone, I learned a little bit about lubrication from your post, that is some good info.

Moon, yeah I would think it over before you use Rotella or something like it? What I did worked in an USA designed and built engine that is a tank of an engine. They do put up with a lot of abuse and handle it well..

Me personally, I would not use any oil in a Honda if it didn't meet Honda's SAE requirement. Or any engine for that matter. I still go look at what the OEM SAE requirement is and go with that. That isn't a cop out if it sound's like 1 it isn't meant to. I have seen oil related failures due to incorrect oil type and specs. I pretty much use OEM oil filters or NAPA Gold equivalent. Oil and filters are cheap compared to engine failure and downtime.

Rotella worked for me in that application. If the weight and specs, meet Honda's requirments that would be the deciding factor for me.. Also know the non synthetic is what was recommended to me, not synthetic.

My .02
Dadrider

 
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The Rotella-T6 synth comes in 5W-40, that's what I use.

My 144K EX had a horrible previous owner with no sense of regular maintenance, so its oil was low with a VTEC CEL. That corrected, consumption (on Mobil 1) was awful at first, until I swapped in a qt R-T with the other quarts Mobil 1 5W-20 High Mileage. Consumed almost a quart in that first week... topped off with regular Mobil. By the end of the second week, consumption was normal. I also ran Gumout Regane High Mileage for a tank shortly after (polyetheramines are best fuel additives for top end cleaning, loosening the deposits in that top ring groove and injector tips). Changed oil/filter again due to the cleaner dirtying the oil, with the same qt R-T with the rest Mobil 1. Smooth sailing since.

My next change, I'll go full Mobil 1 5W-20, and see how things go. Being that my consumption went *down* with the R-T in there, figure it'll have a bit more power due to less going to viscous drag, and get a bit more response. If your consumption is a lot less than mine, though... don't use the R-T all the time, just a smaller amount like a half quart, it until you see a change or 1 month, whichever comes first. My Civic, even with the full quart, is nice and peppy now -- can't wait till May.