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Where would I find the SAE requirements?

So you only use a quart in with the other oil, not all Rotella?

Also, I don't think it was answered, why not use high mileage oil?

Oh and I found this, http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...=2003091748233, I have been putting in 4 quarts at a change, when really i'm only supposed to do 3.5. Will that help the burning?

 
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In the Civic I use Castrol 0w-30 while in my Toyota I will use the Castrol 0w-30 mostly or Mobil 1 0w-40. Both are the "European" formulas with API SN and ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 ratings. I run 7,500 mile oil change intervals and even with 145,000 and 160,000 miles on the engines the oil is still light brown when it is changed.

I use Rotella T6 in a Honda ATV (JASO MA rating for the wet clutch) and Ford tractor. I have also used Rotella to clean up an engine (Jeep Cherokee 4.0l) but this was an engine that had no problems with 40 weight oil.

I think most oil additives are marketed to solve a problem that doesn't exist if you are using a decent oil.

 
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Uh... yes. 3.5 qts if it's an EX. Have you not been checking your dipstick after running the motor five mins after a change? If not, make it a habit.

Supposedly using high mileage oil isn't necessary. However, if you've been using the regular synth formulations of a good engine oil, you apparently shouldn't have any problems. I have a problem with that, as if that were true, there wouldn't be a consumption issue in the first place. Lots of touring/cruisers bikes on my bench who've had religious dealer contract services... and still, there're deposits in the ring grooves when they trade them in on a new bike and I rebuilt them... part of the reason high-mileage oils exist, is to address the same ring-sticking problems, with an additive package. Used them with great success on my Paseo in the Mobil 1 brand (I'd say service limit compression after 280K is a good yardstick for that).

The reason I use not-all R-T, is just what ezone has been saying earlier in the thread and in other threads -- too much viscosity will prevent the oil from doing its job of, in order of importance -- cooling, cleaning, and lubricating. This is why making the entire crankcase full of 40 weight (at op temp) is definitely not recommended, as Honda didn't design the D17 to use 40 weight oil (my SV650, however, was designed to use 10W40, and my 280K Paseo 10W30 -- both of which got all and one qt R-T, respectively).

Sheezus, this has become a bona fide 'one of those damned oil grok threads'! Checking out... any other Qs, PM please.

And pjb3 -- I too reeeeaaally like R-T6 for its clutch feel in a moto/ATV (it's why I preferred it over Castrol Actevo in my street SV). Being that Civic engines don't share trans and engine oil though... prolly less of a sell. But in general, the change in engine oil consumption and fuel economy in the Civic from not using that last half-quart of R-T, to using it, is significant enough to notice during fillups, and when passing on the highway, after about a week or two of daily normal driving.

 
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Here's the problem with SAE specs: Far too general IMO. There's far more to oil selection than just the "5w20" type rating.


Remember what I said previously:
The SAE spec is stamped on your oil cap.
Yeah. That's all the SAE spec is.


Short answer: It's usually "thicker" than what the engine needs.
It can cause increased oil consumption, regardless of what the label tries to get you to believe.


Quote from post #27: Low kinematic viscosity is essential for proper cooling of these critical areas (piston rings, ring lands, and ring grooves). Thicker oil increases the oil temperature and ring area temperature.

^^That's how you get carbon buildup in the ring grooves.^^
And most reputable quality regular oil already has the conditioners for the seals, you don't gain anything from a "high mileage" labeled product..



=========================

More from my saved notes:

"High mileage" products were created and marketed based on the ability to extend the life of oil seals and gaskets, and reduce oil consumption.
In reality, they were usually thicker than the typical products of the same viscosity rating and did have better seal conditioning properties than SOME oil products.


Seal conditioning performance was not tested by API, ILSAC, and other rating systems until just recently. We now have excellent technology regarding seal conditioning and extending the life of oil seals and gaskets.
API, ILSAC and others now test and mandate much better seal conditioning than just a few years ago.

Most modern reputable oil producers already incorporate these conditioning technologies into their "regular" oils.

===========================

Maybe.


Overfilling is bad.
The full mark on the dipstick means FULL. It doesn't mean keep adding more. Duh.

Many engines tend to seek their own oil level, meaning they may try to expel excess. Some might leak it, others burn it.

Audi and VW used to have warning labels about overfilling the engine oil, because oil burning can lead to destruction of the catalytic converter.

Agree, except for the 'synth' part.



Oil consumption can have more causes than just sticking rings.

Remember, SOME consumption is normal, expected, and designed into the engine.
SOME consumption can be caused by driving habits.

Also, engines do wear, and wear out.



Dealers are free to use incorrect oils too, just like anyone else. (THINK CHEAP!)

I also believe that driving habits and general use CAN vary so much between different drivers that sometimes a single set of specs sometimes might not be enough to cover all the possible conditions that could be encountered.


Extended highway driving/heavy duty towing (extreme loading)/extreme cold weather/soccer mom short trip/stop and go, etc. all place different demands on an engine. It can be difficult to spec something that can protect in all conditions.

We have engine designs with extremely narrow low tension rings that are very unforgiving of incorrect oil. Now add in todays extended drain intervals, 5k-10k-15k miles between oil changes. Todays high tech oils are already doing a tremendous job.
Questionable oils and additives just make the situation even less forgiving.

Yeah, no kidding.


Please note: I'm no oil guru. I read what some trusted experts have to say, and I try to save a lot of notes for reference.

 
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It's totally becoming one of those threads, but I'm learning! Or trying to. The best part is I can reference back to it. Now personally ezone, what would you do? Would running the rotella for an oil change or two and then switching to straight castrol, or whatever brand, and continue using that from now on clean it nicely so I have a "fresh"-ish start. AND I want my car to last forever.

 
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You already know what I'd do.

PLUS I check oil on a regular basis, on all of my gas engine powered stuff. Cars, truck, bike, mowers, etc.

Be more realistic.

I don't know how it is where you are, but I'm in the rust belt.
Our goal here is to get miles racked up on it before the body rots away to nothing.

 
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I had to address some points here just to clarify what was meant, and what was missed.

'Questionable oils and additives just make the situation even less forgiving.'

Unless it'd been tested in my own vehicles, successfully. Racing and four different street vehicles should be a wide enough delta to prove (at least to me) that my 'doping'-dose-of-RT6 methodology isn't inherently abusive, and should not accelerate wear or reduce the life of the hard parts. Since I'm well acquainted with the symptoms of compression loss and additional blowby due to reduced ring sealing, and have not seen any of these symptoms in any of my vehicles when using the RT6 in the oil, I can't agree it'd make the situation less forgiving.


'Dealers are free to use incorrect oils too, just like anyone else. (THINK CHEAP!)'

My dealer where Dave and I worked, only used OEM oils for all dealer services, unless the customer provided their own (specifically Pro Honda for all Hondas, Yamalube for Yamahas, Suzuki for Suzukis, etc.). No substitution was allowed or endorsed, at least when I was wrenching as a senior tech there. TBH, Yamaha's and Kawasaki's OEM sportbike oil (which was a pretty trick Motul formulation) were damned good in street applications.


'Oil consumption can have more causes than just sticking rings.

Remember, SOME consumption is normal, expected, and designed into the engine.
SOME consumption can be caused by driving habits.

Also, engines do wear, and wear out.'


Didja forget I was a 15+yr tech too?

Other than a leak, there aren't many other oil-pressurized sliding seals in the motor that are exposed to atmosphere, 2000 degF gas temps and 4200-ft/sec accelerations at redline... so it's the main one. Flutter is what claims most oil, along with matched gaps a close second (when matched, though it corrects itself given enough time). The old 'quart/1000 mi' rule still applies in 2014 despite much tighter tolerances, much more accurate manufacturing, and better oils? If you're consuming a quart in a month in a brand-new vehicle after proper break-in... I wouldn't ignore it. But in a 144K, 10-yr-old one like mine... it's definitely bore OOR if not ring-sticking, so a quart is more plausible (if not to be ignored).


'Agree, except for the synth part'

My last words on the usual oil shens (I promise)...

Synths are simply more stable and regular chain forms of hydrocarbon chains (oil), that are much more consistent than mineral oils, since all of the chains are close to the same length and homogenous, rather than a range of lengths, some more volatile and some less. The volatile, short ones are the ones that sublimate and leave out your exhaust to become a smog component. The longer ones, the 'heavy ends', become sludge. So a synthetic oil, if engineered properly for the application, will last longer, resist viscosity change, penetrate better (as we know from gasket leaks on engines designed for dino oil), pollute less, and retain the three abilities of oil -- cleaning, cooling, and lubing -- for longer and under more diverse conditions than dino. Since they flow better in the same SAE viscosities then mineral, they can also receive more additive packages without sacrificing that lack of viscosity.

If one of the main properties of oil that allow it to clean the ring grooves, is a thin enough viscosity to properly cool and carry away that heat to prevent localized cooking, why then would you resist a synthetic formulation? It by design, will leave behind less heavy ends in the grooves as deposits, and yet stay within viscosity so it can flow away with deposit debris, rather than off-gas and leave.

After a hard break-in with dino oil (still the best way to do that IMO)... synth all the way. I've raced with Castrol moto racing synths on a bike that'd done less than 50 mi on the dyno, as a break-in... no problems whatsoever. Used my racebike on the street as well with this break-in... zero street issues with consumption. But then again... I was using a synth with a far better protective additive package against sludge, carbon buildup, acids, or viscosity breakdown, than any gas engine oil.

 
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We aren't dealing with top rings or compression loss at all.
We are dealing only with carbon buildup in the oil ring groove.





Your bike engines aren't the same as the average econobox engine. The only real absolute similarity is they all burn gasoline.

We're really only dealing with the grocery getter econobox Civic engine here, normally driven by average people in typical grocery getter econobox modes and situations.
Good for your dealer. We too have a supply of oil on the Honda program. We also stock Mobil-1 which complies with Hondas specs.

There are plenty of others in the auto world that don't adhere to manufacturer recommendations. There's at least one within a stones throw from me.

How much time does it take? How much time will an average consumer put up with?

Remember, the average consumer will never, ever open the hood of their own car. Never ever check their own oil. Never ever put air in their own tires, completely ignoring the (!) icon on the dash for-freekin-ever.

"Gas goes in *here*, and as long as it can pull itself down the road then all must be perfect."


So, on the subject of ring gaps.......
This is out of the 14 van I did the other day. 10 k miles. Fouled a plug already, approx 1.75 quarts consumed in 5k miles:


Depends on the situation. See above..


Never actually measured a bore in these engines, but I'm fairly sure the bores aren't the issue.



The label "Synthetic" can be nearly meaningless in North America. A company can use a blend of 1% syn and get away with calling it synthetic. Again, interpreting the label and specs is key.

Plus, the wrong oil is still the wrong oil, no matter if it really is synthetic or not.

---------------------------------------
---------------------------------------
Our closest BMW dealer tells people that "any synthetic oil is good enough" (yes, I actually heard this on the phone).

But they are vastly different oils when the rest of the specs are considered.

 
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Welp, guess I have to renege on the oil shens thing.

Sure it does (involve compression). What do you think happens when a ring gets stuck? Doesn't blowby happen? And wouldn't signs that compression isn't occurring properly (more oil consumption, higher engine temps, dirty EGR components and manifold interiors) be of diagnostic value? Of course it would.


I challenge you to Google images of 954RR pistons (even better, old-school CBR600F3 pistons), and images of D17 pistons (usually from ebay). The only difference design-wise is the lack of metal in the skirt and long-rod-like wrist pin location (less skirt allows for quicker and higher revs w/o stressing rods or big ends, with a high pin bore giving more dwell time at TDC for better torque). Otherwise the ring groove spacing, oil control ring size (in proportion to the compression rings) are very, very similar. Even the forgings and more recently, the moly skirt appliques, are based on moto designs -- Honda auto engines aren't as different as you may assume. And most sportbikes, esp these days, are toodling around in rush hour traffic as much as a Civic, which is even more challenging since they're also expected to make 140-200 hp/liter and rev to the moon AND be a not-gawd-awful streetbike to cruise spinners on.


Here I was only defending my views from an assumption that those views may've been distorted by my use of cheap oil. It was exactly what the manus' recommended, so by your reasoning, those engine should've self-cleaned their way out of groove deposits. That's all...


[quote[How much time does it take? How much time will an average consumer put up with?[/quote]

Since any owner of a vehicle with an engine that uses multiple piston rings to seal, will experience ring gap matching (ring rotation is by design). And since that two-ring/two-gap design is still in production in nearly every IC piston street engine in existence... it doesn't seem to be very long before they overlap again. Otherwise, I'd have to get a rebuild every time it happened. That I don't, speaks to how long it takes -- not long, and certainly not long enough to concern an owner, not to mention an enthusiast.

Now... if the rings *stick* in this config... that's bad, but still not reason enough to tear an engine down. Just use a bit of RT6 with a good chamber cleaner like Regane with 0W20 oil, and it should free enough to begin moving again. Hell, you can probably get it to rotate with just the Regane.


Whew. Finally a point I don't have to clarify my stance on.

You can't have abuse/neglect tolerance designed into an engine, and make it more efficient, at the same time -- both are mutually-exclusive to each other, and something has to give. The very extra groove space that allows a ring to unstick by being able to move slightly axially off the groove floor, is the very one that allows HC to stick around and increase emissions. This is why top grooves are located higher and higher on pistons these days, to keep this area from containing HC in service (and forcing more and more sophisticated oils to be able to comply with the greater risk of cooking).

Honda apparently learned something about bringing these opposing goals closer together with subsequent gens, but as long as lacking owners never go away, neither will ring-sticking... cars being less and less neglect-tolerant, what with mpg and emissions being top engineering goals these days. Hell, you can't even take off the valve cover on the '15 Fit without unbolting the manifold? Factory hands and chemicals only, no aftermarket at all, seems like a continuing trend with no end in sight.


Yep, not at all unusual, even on moto Hondas (take a look at a CRF450R piston and rings sometime). This is most likely much tighter than a 7th gen's, so that should tell you how hard a blasé soccer mom will be on it.


Bore are always the issue, that's just high-mile piston engines for you. Low-tension rings just means they have low tension without gas pressure behind them. As the pin sits pretty low on a D17 vs. a 954RR piston, that means more propensity for skirt contact approaching TDC-C, not to mention the perpendicular axis to the crank is where the rings will exert the most force at TDC (momentum of piston mass), but where the oil film will be weakest (due to combustion temps). Bell-mouthing and OORs are a fact of life, even on a 40-hp/liter taxi Crown Vic with a 3000-rpm average redline/day.

See if you can find a high-mile (150K or more) motor in your circle of influence, and put a dial indicator bore gauge on it. Rings don't like to make anything but circles... well, when they seal, anyway.


Almost right. If not 100% synthetic for engine oils, it has to be labeled a blend. Not all makers list how much is synth, but you are informed there's dino in there. If you have an example of a blend that's labeled a full synth, post it up, I'd like to know what to avoid.


Yep... for those 'owners' mentioned above that can't really be bothered with taking actual care of their cars (non-enthusiasts aka non-drivers in my book )... then sticking with (no pun intended) factory-specified oils will result in better longevity and service life, at least as far as 'better' is defined by the factory that makes your car.

But in my case... 'different' is also 'better'. I can't reverse the abuse and neglect done to my engine until I took the reins... but I can control when it needs my attention, and just maybe, even make it run a bit better with some old-fashioned care... from outside the factory reccies. Don't get me wrong -- I don't diss Honda reccies, quite the opposite... but I do freely and intelligently choose when to part from them -- via my own testing.

 
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Holy cow my pic made the whole mess get super wide.


Except for big twins AFAIK, so many of the motorcycle engines can turn insane RPMs when needed. The cars don't.

----------------------

Ring gap alignment is supposed to be a cause of the oil consumption on the V6 VCM engines in this link.http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/23/h...wsuit-engines/


Quote from service information: "The piston rings on certain cylinders may rotate and align which can lead to spark plug fouling."
Why would this only happen on the cylinders equipped with VCM? (I don't know the answer.)
#1 thru 4 are affected, out of 6.
1-4 can be shut down during 3 or 4 cylinder modes but #5 and 6 are always being used. 5 and 6 are not affected.



The 2014 that piston came out of is not included in this warranty extension on the V6 engines. Honda wanted this short block back for further examination. I doubt I'll ever hear anything further about it.


My comments weren't directed you personally.

We can still have great compression with little blowby when just the oil control rings are stuck. You can completely remove the oil rings and still have decent compression. Oil control goes to hell though.

And a cat can hide a lot of oil smoke.

--------------------------------

I keep forgetting that driving habits can lead to rings sticking too. Hard use on a cold engine, and fuel quality have a lot to do with it. Carbon deposits can take years to form and build up to a point where they become a problem.

Honda and others always recommend top tier gasoline.
http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

--------------------------------

Um...I don't have any laying around, and the head gasket jobs are kinda few and far between.

Measure yours when you pull the head off?
I got an internet dollar that says they are within acceptable limits.

--------------------------------

Bikes were/are the proving ground for much of the innovative stuff in the cars.

 
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I tried finding castrols/other oils with these specs and i couldnt find any, perhaps I was searching the wrong thing?

 
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You may need to read the actual bottles on the shelves.

 
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Your such a smart ***! btw, how long do you think it took "cool story bro" dude to actually get that chair trick to work? XD

 
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That's one of the nicer things I've been called.

^My GF sent me that pic on facebook because..... There was this one time I told her to stop and get some oil for her car, she called back while in the middle of DangerZone oil aisles wanting to know which one to get.....


Ima bet it was more than once.

 
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I am 110% that that using this oil is your only real problem. I was having similar problems until I change back to Non-high mileage Castrol oil. I figured it out after I found out all high mileage oils contain a hybrid synthetic blend. Honda's don't like synthetic oil. The oil you are burning is the synthetic part of the oil. It will take a couple of oil changes for the problem to completely resolve...

 
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Well that's good to know. Thanks!

Ezone, mine agreed too, plus she really is not a car kinda gal so I don't bother. I took a look at a bottle of gtx i had and couldn't find the info you listed. I read every word. Please don't think me stupid, but we're those abbreviations or is there a hidden label? Trying to put my new knowledge to work...not going smoothly...r

 
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Whew, sorry late to the thread -- man this was an arsekicker of a working weekend!


Aaahhh -- that sort of makes sense...

I wonder if it's the lack of high-pressure and heat that change oil visc enough in those van engines, to keep oil where it is in the ring groove... if that's the case, any cyls that don't have combustion, will retain oil for longer in the grooves... and when used under heavy throttle will cook before the ring gaps rotate out of alignment. In THAT case, yes a more viscous oil will definitely penalize you by cooking seized in the aligned position and fouling a plug.


In the case of cooked ring seal failure, though.. it's the seized ring's failure to conform, despite oil control, that leads to blowby. Expanding gas can no longer take the route behind the rings due to proper cyl seal, pressing it even tighter against the cyl wall... the gas simply blows between the ring and the cyl wall. This also causes local clearing of the cyl oil film in the area of least resistance... which then taxes the control rings even more. The OC rings are so low-tension, though... that it doesn't take much to keep them from doing their jobs. Enough time with this condition in place... and the telltales -- dirty EGR and manifold deposits, poor fuel economy, and quick-filth oil -- all contribute to a poorly-performing D17...

The cat's role in oil smoke -- that's a good point. It'd probably well-hide this problem on one cyl... but it's hard to imagine a quart-a-month Civic with two pistons cooked, that didn't exhibit some amount of blue...

--------------------------------

Yep, esp if your car has a lot of valve overlap with fixed valve timing. Our D17s have only variable lift with VTEC-E right? The amount of gas actually changing direction and going backwards in a D17 though, is minimal, thanks to its shutting down one runner... which is probably why they idle so nicely compared to non-variable-lift/timing 4V engines like my YZF or Paseo.

--------------------------------

Much of that changed once the regs really began to force more expensive and less-mechanical tech innovations in the car arena -- just think about where these came first: ABS (S-Class), airbags (S-Class*), cylinder deactivation/variable displacement (Mitsubishi MIVEC-MD), traction control (Buick, believe it or not), and even radial tires (the 1987 Michelin A59X and M59X were the first radial sportbike tires).

Nowadays, I keep seeing car innovations on bikes -- even *gasp* dual-clutch automatic transmissions (VFR1200F) HID combo beams, variable intake tracts, and F1-style intake trumpet primary injectors. Since it takes more tech to please regs nowadays, I don't think that'll change back anytime soon, unfortunately...

* Honda says their new Wing to replace the 1800 may feature tank-mounted airbags... which begs the question, what if you have a tankbag and don't feel like parking to get crap out, like a beesting kit or a set of maps? Unless they make it compact enough to serve as the LID for a tank storage box (fuel is carried under the seat more and more nowadays), count me out!

 
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If the oil meets certain specifications, they are usually displayed proudly and easy to find.

Specs they DON'T meet can be scarily deceptive. Certain manufacturers are known to have deceptive wording on their labels, more than certain others.

0w40



5w20


Sorry, couldn't find a back label of a bottle of Mobil1 5w20 in a GIS.
If I remember, I might take a pic of this bottle at work.


I know I show Mobil products here, but there are many brands that have products that meet Hondas specs.
There are many more that don't.




Here's a document about the new (not really new now) 5w30 HTO-06 spec for the Acura RDX Turbo http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja &uact=8&docid=_sgGYFFcjOAkFM&tbnid=9tsar2nnxFVAxM: &ved=0CAIQjBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.flickr.com%2 F31%2F204240935_8e79a2460f_o_d.jpg&ei=zW5LU7myEeGq yAGUsIGYDw&bvm=bv.64542518,d.aWc&psig=AFQjCNHtltnK jcDkzKGzsNrNGwCoj2d9Hw&ust=1397538889473397



Here's a couple of oils that might appear the same at first, but are quite different and only one is approved for recent General Motors DEXOS specification....You pour in the wrong one and you can void your warranty.






Definitely don't use this

LMAO @ "better than it has to be". Taking a whizz in the crankcase might be better than that oil.


One more, don't buy.....it even tells you straight up it doesn't meet newer specs......and it even has a typo on the label

 
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Completely wrong. High mileage oils may or may not be synthetic blends, most are not. Many people, including myself, run full synthetic oil with no problems.

 
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+1

When you read that a high-mileage oil is a 'blend', makes sure you figure out what's being blended. For example my Mobil 1 5W20 HM is a 'proprietary blend of high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an additive system', not dino oil.

FYI: in Mobil 1 HM, these are the additives:

Extra anti-wear additive
Helps protect critical engine parts in high mileage engines.

Extra cleaning additive
Helps to reduce the sludge and deposits that conventional oils can leave behind.

Seal conditioner
Helps prevent leaks.

Sounds like just what I need in a 144K Civic with nonchalant maintenance (up to now, of course).

It is ACEA A1/B1 and API SL approved, with an API rating of CF.

 
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Honda sells full synthetic with their own label





We also have blends available.

 
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Here's the gtx high mileage:

 
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Hmmmm......I see the BP logo on that bottle.

Isn't that the same BP commpany that downplayed the severity of the "leak" in their Deepwater Horizon well disaster on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico? And downplayed the severity of the "leak" into Lake Michigan?

Yeah. The same. I'm sure they are totally honest.

 
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That's what I've been using cause a master mechanic friend of mine runs it in his daughters 02 civic. I don't mind changing though if it mean my car lasts longer.

 
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LOL! Let me tell ya... my racing mentor is a pretty-anti-1%, former '60s wild child... and when the Deep[Toilet]water cluster happened, he was all up in arms... until he found out Castrol is a BP company (all our racebikes up to that point, were using Castrol racing oils, and he had a drum in his garage of it). He did stop using Castrol, but not until that drum was empty.

Seriously, though -- their shelf oils are fine... if they were as bad as that, they wouldn't even bother saying it's part-synth, why not yolo it. Their incompetence with managing drunk cowboy morons on an oil platform doesn't extend all the way to their subsidiary products, aka shelf oil. Labels go on millions of gallons of product, they wouldn't be THAT stupid to risk the litigation and shelf pulls of it all.

 
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^What he said.^

I was just being snarky.

 
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I know. But there are those that don't, comment was for them. Creepwater is still a sore subject for those with good memories...

Wasn't GTX a full-dino oil back when? I used to run my old rat-trap '78 E-150 Chateau on GTX back in the early '90s, and it loved it... well, of course it did, with 160K, a manifold coolant leak, non-functioning vacuum secondaries, a tangle of rocky vacuum lines... and no throttle kickdown -- I had to loosen the doghouse and pull on the rod myself to kickdown -- thank underdeveloped plastic parts in a hellish-hot environment for that mess!

If GTX is part-synth now, that's at least a step up, if still not ideal.

'Master mechanic' btw, is only a sign you've passed a test -- it's no guarantee their advice on such a potential-hairball subject like oils is solid, until you see proof of their reccies through use in their own vehicles. I've met -- and bumped heads with -- a *lot* of hack 'master mechanics', who can't tell me basic stuff like stoichiometric ratio, what three things are all required to occur together to run an IC engine, or why power and torque traces on a dyno pull cross at 5252 rpm -- much of them only know a narrow range of hands-on knowledge on a single brand, some only on one vehicle. One MM tried to tell me back in my junior tech days, there was no such thing as synthetic oil, that it was a gimmick to sell you filtered waste product from the oil production process at a premium. Prolly was just hazing me... but if he wasn't, that's no master of mechanics.

 
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The same masters that can't operate a test light or voltmeter?

1963 VW Bug with the ol Baja kit on it. Damn hard to start when it was full of 20w50 in the dead of winter. Went through 3 engines and transmissions in about 3 years LOL.

 
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He's a good mechanic, but his knowledge is...old. He was in highschool when everyone was putting pozzy track rear ends in their muscle cars(early 60's). He is smart, but I don't always go with what he says.