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After a 1 hour trip on the interstate (80MPH), when I got out, I noticed an antifreeze smell, and found it was wet somewhere up high and up towards the front (among other places). It had been blown all down the bottom side of the car. I'm guessing considering since it was also wet so far towards the front and top that it's either spraying out of the overflow, or leaking from the radiator, but just couldn't tell. From reading around, it seems these radiators leak often. Can anyone possibly tell from these pictures?
pics

The temperature gauge stayed at half (normal). It was around 60 degrees outside. I rented a pressure tester from Autozone but it's storming like mad outside so it's going to be tomorrow before I can use it. Any tips on using it, and anything else I should check for if it doesn't show a leak?

If it's the radiator, what's the best/cheapest place to get one? Should it be a Honda part?

 
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Search here for

overheat

no heat

head gasket


Head gasket is among the most common and most missed problem.

 
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If it were even a tiny pinhole in the head gasket, would I be able to smell it in the exhaust, or could it just be spraying out (which you can see) and not in?

 
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Your pictures indicate to me that the coolant was forced out of the white plastic reservoir, not the radiator itself.
That does NOT mean the problem is the radiator or reservoir. These can be checked and proven good or bad.


When the 1.7 engine loses a head gasket, it usually isn't spectacular. There isn't any loss of compression, nor oil that looks like chocolate milkshake.

These typically send cylinder pressure into the cooling system very very slowly.
The coolant is displaced into the overflow bottle as the cylinder pressure creates a large air bubble in the radiator.
This can cause a lack of heater complaint too.

Reservoir may eventually overflow, that's when you smell a problem.

Extended highway trips are when most people notice the problem.


Search this site using those terms in the last post. Find any thread where I describe the methods I use to prove the problem.


I'm not saying the head gasket is your problem, but it is very likely if it hasn't been replaced already. Pointed testing can prove or disprove it.

HTH

 
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Thanks. Reading a few of your replies in other threads, I need to get a pressure tester that screws into the spark plug holes, correct?

Is replacing a head gasket on these pretty straight forward? I've done a fair amount of light mechanic work on my cars over the years, but never pulled a head.

 
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I connect an air hose right into a cylinder, no tester. (I use the hose that comes with a compression tester to screw into the spark plug hole.)
Direct 170 PSI shop air pressure.
If the coolant level comes up, that's a leaker.


The head gasket job would be fairly straightforward if you have done any engine/head work in the past.
I can't evaluate your abilities.

There might be a tutorial somewhere though.

 
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No engine work other than replacing external things...starters, alternators, belts, spark plugs, various sensors, etc. Plus exhaust, brakes, etc.

Does anyone know of a good tutorial?

 
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then i would not recommend starting with this one.....

 
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Looks like it's just very time consuming, which I don't have a lot of right now.

So what's the highest price I should accept from a dealer to replace it? Also since I think the timing belt had to come off too, might as well replace it too. Car has 83,700 miles, with original T-belt. Of course I can't remember if dealers take into consideration combining labor cost or not (ie. cheaper T-belt replacement labor if it's already off anyway).

I replaced the coolant in Sept 2011 at 68,750 miles with Peak Global Lifetime (G-05), but it may have had the original coolant in it up until then. Is old coolant that what causes the head gaskets to go, or is it just a common problem on these? I'm on forums a lot but I hadn't heard about the problem until this happened. If it's just a common problem (even with regular coolant changes), I thought this would be one of the last cars to have a common (if it is) problem like this, which is why I bought it (my first Civic).

 
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Itemize the estimate. Maybe the timing belt is already included in it, I know I might do that.
Question everything like you know WTF is going on.

NO, you shouldn't pay an extra 4 hours of labor to slide the timing belt on while the rest is apart. Maybe one extra hour of labor would be ok for the extra work according to the labor guide I looked at (and I personally would even toss the water pump install in there for that same additional labor since it is only 4 more bolts).


Common issue, coolant has nothing to do with it.

But you need to use the correct coolant. There is no universal coolant no matter how many times it is written on the jug. Gotta read the jug to see what is in it.

Honda specifies "Non-Silicate, Non-Borate" conventional ethylene glycol, ours is long life and pre mixed.

HTH

 
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you should have used OEM honda blue coolant when you replaced it, or had it replaced....

at a dealer i think you would be looking at an easy $2,000 for a head gasket job....they shouldnt charge you any more labour to replace the timing belt, only the cost of the belt, they have to take it off anyway,

 
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ezone,
I drove it another hour today, at 60-70MPH, temperature outside 33 degrees, and saw no antifreeze leaking afterwards.

I rented a cooling system pressure tester, but it won't attach to the small neck on the Civic. I'll have to go back and get an adapter.
Also rented a cylinder pressure tester, but wasn't thinking clearly, for some reason thinking it would have a pump. So it does me no good. And I don't have an air compressor. I think I'll buy one or find someone that has one. My dad has a B&D pancake style compressor but I think it's only about 100psi. That's not high enough is it?

I called the local Honda dealer for a labor cost for a head gasket.
[Feel free to skip this part]
The guy wasn't really into it and/or didn't know much about replacing them. Told them I wanted labor price to replace head gasket, then separately any additional labor to replace timing belt, drive belts, and water pump, explaining that T-belt and drive belts shouldn't be any more since they're removed for the head gasket (and have everything off to get to the water pump). Said he asked a mechanic, who told them about 10 hours ($1000). I asked if that was just head gasket labor, and was told no, everything, so I explained again that the others shouldn't be much, if any, additional labor and I wanted head gasket labor cost, then the rest. So he went again and said he asked the shop foreman who said 8 hours total. Who knows if it'll end up being that.
[continue reading here]

Is $800 a fair price for the head gasket and water pump labor? Parts prices from that dealer are:
head gasket $40.78
timing belt $25.67
drive(?) belt $16.xx (guy was talking too fast)
compressor belt $22.20
water pump $85
I didn't think to get prices for valve cover, intake, and exhaust gaskets.

If I supply my own Honda parts (ie. from Majestic), will they use them? Bad idea?

Not sure I'll replace the water pump or not. As soon as Honda makes a Civic coupe I like, I'm buying a new one and getting rid of mine. Meaning, if they add exterior improvements to the 2014 like they did to the sedan for 2013. How often do Civic water pumps go bad anyway? People always though out "just change it to be safe", others say just wait since it's rare for them to go bad (on a Civic). One person said the dealer replaced their water pump, then the new one leaked a couple months later.
What about cam and crank seals. How necessary?

Will the dealer automatically check the head for warpage? Or only if I tell them to? They'd have to send it to a machine shop just to check, wouldn't they?

 
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8 hours labor isn't far off, after including a serious inspection, all the goodies and possible machine shop charges if it got overheated. *I* think it would be fair to me if I was the one doing the work.
10 hours labor is high.



The dealer in the next town over won't even do head gaskets (according to a customer that came from there recently). They want to sell complete engines for this. Maybe they don't have anyone left that can do a head gasket....IDK.

Parts prices sound right for honest dealer list. Check MSRP yourself: http://estore.honda.com/ (An official Honda site)

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/ (Majestic Honda, serious discount....plus shipping.)
No, a good restaurant will not let you bring your own steak and cook it for you.
See any connection there?

IDK, ask them.
I'd expect an extra labor fee to make up for it though.



Check out the method that scooty used to prove his head gasket issue:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/182-7th-gen/352984-idle-behavior-normal-vid-included-redid-thtle-body-clean-worse-now-2.html#post4629441

Why didn't that link?

Browse the rest of his thread if you want to see how we got to that point.


Ain't gonna happen IMO. The 13 got the super early restyle that should have happened in 14 or 15 if it hadn't been for the public outcry and bad reviews of the 12's. The "model runs" are normally 5 years.

Should. Part of a good job.Not if they have the right equipment. Two of us in our shop have a precision straightedge for measuring this. The head does not leave our shop unless it NEEDS to.

Depends. Cam seal MIGHT be part of a gasket SET. (I didn't look.)

Seems like most aren't leaking at the 100k belt change, but ARE leaking before the next belt change.


Hit and miss. I see many that have the outer gasket seeping yet the pump is still fine. Gets a pump for that anyway.

It might be looking OK right now.....But....will it live through the NEXT 100,000 miles without failing? Are you a gambler?


HTH

 
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those prices seem very reasonable to me....8-10 hours seems right

before you go dishing out that kind of money, the million dollar question is....are you SURE the head gasket is your problem?

as for the water pump, i changed mine at 240,000km when i did my timing belt, even though it was still fine, i didnt want to rip the timing belt off again if it goes bad,

 
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Start by replacing your radiator cap and bleeding the coolant system thoroughly. If that fails it's most likely the head gasket. At 240k + though I'm betting head gasket is gonzo.

 
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Mine only has 83,700 miles.

 
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My car has never overheated. Do I still need to tell them to check for warpage? And if so, you're saying the 8 hours should include that check? So you check yours there in house, but send them out for milling, correct?

Part of which gasket set?

I see a slight similarity in relating bringing your own parts to bring your own food to a restaurant, but really it's a lot different. For one, it would be the identical Honda parts they would use. But, I also thought the same as you...that they might try to squeeze something extra in (ie. lie) to make up for it. I was a service advisor for just a couple years up until about 16+ years ago, and I thought I remember some people bringing in their own parts, but can't really remember. When I worked at a quick lube when I was younger, we occasionally had people bring in their own oil & filter. I'm not sure how willing the local dealer would be to come close to Majestic's prices. Anyone ever have any luck doing that?

I won't have this car another 100,000 miles. And if the water pump just ends up slightly leaking before that, but still pumps fine, that's not a big deal is it?

I think the Civic possibly could still get another mid-gen refresh sometime in the next year or two, considering the coupe exterior didn't change at all with the 2013 emergency refresh. And I think they'll get a lot of praise for the sedan refresh, and if it ends up even selling a lot more than 2012's (which sold well), but the coupe sales don't increase much, surely they'll want to make changes soon to the coupe as well. I wasn't referring to waiting for the next generation, just a refresh, like they always get mid-gen.

When looking for an air compressor, what is the least amount of pressure I would need to test with the cylinder pressure tester?

 
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Good. Checking the head for warpage will verify that.
I should HOPE that whomever does the work will check it, I consider it to be part of the job at hand.
Yes, I would make sure it is done.
If it has any warpage (maximum spec 0.002"/0.05mm IIRC), the gasket can't seal properly and you will be doing the work all over again very soon.

The temp gauge can display the same center(ish) reading for a wide range of actual temps on most of these cars.
Absolutely. Takes only 2 minutes to measure, if one has the proper tools.
Correct.
This is a mechanics' shop, not a machinists' shop. Huge difference.
Many companies package sets of gaskets and whatnot to complete some common jobs, as opposed to making you buy 27 individual gaskets for that job.
If you think in terms of PROFIT, it all becomes the same.
You bring in your own parts, dealer loses that amount of profit on the parts sale.
Gotta make up that lost profit.
If you were an advisor in a shop, you should understand a lot of that.

PLUS, the parts markup helps to cover the costs of having to warranty a job if something fails.






If you bring in your own parts here, our only guarantee is it will be installed correctly.
YOU worry about whether it works or not.
If your part fails, you pay labor all over again to replace it.

Sure. Some shops will, some won't. Ask them and find out.

Good freekin' luck with that.

Remember: Profit.

Your call, not mine.

Doubt it. There is normally only one refresh per model run, and it already happened.



We haven't received any 13 coupes yet, so I can't give 2 cents this yet.
I completely expect they got the same treatment as the sedans though, this is how it always happened in the past.
Normally they only get one refresh per model run.
Like I said, it already happened.
I'm not holding my breath.
Depends on the severity of the problem. One that is leaking profusely might show itself with minimal pressure. A leak that is still very minor might need a lot of pressure to make itself known.

Depends on your needs. What else are you going to use a compressor for?











DIY head gasket thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...-belt-diy.html




Various gasket SETS:
(Looks like a cam seal would come with one set.)




Also....there ARE other reasons you might have the complaints you have. Check into those too, don't just dive into a job like this because I opened my big mouth.

 
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That gasket set (#1) is $223.86 list ($156.70 Majestic).
06110-PLD-010 GASKET KIT, CYLINDER HEAD
If the head gasket is is only $40.78 even at my expensive dealer (which I guess is at or near list price), I've trying to figure out what makes up the other $183.08. Looks like it comes with head, intake, exhaust, valve cover gaskets, and cam seals? Other than head gasket, should the rest add up to $183?

And is the $40.78 the dealer quoted me for #2?
06111-PLA-E01 GASKET KIT, CYLINDER BLOCK

I'm not going to go in and tell them to do work without either me verifying first, or them.

Say there are no other needs for a compressor, what do you think approximately the lowest pressure needed to find the smallest head gasket leak would be? I can probably borrow one from a friend but don't want to go through the trouble before finding this out.


Trust me, the 2013 coupe gets no changes to exterior other than even uglier Kia-like wheels. It does get the same interior enhancements that the sedan does though. I really can't stand the front grill area on the coupe. Not crazy about the back either but I could live with it.

 
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List price (MSRP) is cheap for many dealers. They are free to set their own markup and matrix as they see fit.

Head gasket kit (Honda) includes valve stem seals.

Gotta run for now.

 
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IDK, add up all the individual pieces and see.
Seems to me that most of the parts will most likely be used except the valve stem seals, unless it gets a valve job too.

If you have an EX then see if it has the VTEC valve gasket in the set.
I don't see why anyone would include bottom end seals for a head gasket job, unless someone just started including all the gaskets they could find....(Parts people generally have no clue about what really goes on in the shop, right?).

Ask them, not me.

Two words: "Show me."

I have no problem with showing almost anyone my findings or evidence when doing a job, but you had better be able to comprehend what is going on.

I don't have the patience to explain how a clock works just to tell you what time it is. (That's what the service advisor is for.)

I LOL'd.


Average household appliance user grade will probably range anywhere from 90-130PSI. Maybe 150 for a better one. Industrial-commercial-high end home use would be 160-180 ish. I think the compressor at work cycles from 165-175 or so.

Like I said earlier, it varies. Get the most you can find though.


Or just let the car do it by itself. Check this thread (2 pages). Toward the end scooty has a video of his head gasket leak in action: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...worse-now.html

 
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Slickone,
If you do try using the hose from a compression tester just make sure you remove the check valve in the threaded end before you try hooking up your air hose. Most testers have the check valves to hold pressure longer after the engine stops cranking. Good luck.