Rep Power: 0

my 02 civic lx bucked HARD on the interstate and the engine malfunction light came on. i hit the advance closest to me for them to the pull the codes.

i got a p1298, which he stated was a dealer code and i had to look up online. google brought up the ELD(electronic load detector). autozone nor advance website have it listed as a part so obviously i must be missing something on that one....

i also got a p0335 crankshaft position sensor. based on what i have read you have to pull the cover that goes over the timing belt and remove it to get to the sensor. if that is right then there is no way i can do it myself.

is there an average cost to have it replaced? the sensor runs around 90 dollars but i have no idea what the shop would charge to fix it.

right now the car wont crank and if it comes close it just putters off. what do i need to do to get it to run long enough to drive it to the shop?

thanks in advance for any help

 
Rep Power: 518

The P0335 (CKP sensor no signal) is what you need to be concerned with.
The ELD code shouldn't turn on the light.

The only things I can think of that you can do without taking timing covers off is to pull the wire connector off of the sensor and see if there is corrosion in the terminals of the connector. Water pump drips and road spray can get in there and corrode the terminals.

Measure the wiring there with a voltmeter, the 3 wires should read: 5volt, a ground, and 12volt. If you have these, then the sensor is probably bad. Now you can go to work.


ELD is a well known problem area, you can buy the ELD by itself for a pretty fair price from any dealer once the car runs again. See this bulletin: http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/hy..._ELD_P1298.pdf

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

thanks,

so the connector can be seen, you just can change the sensor with out taking off the timing cover? how long would a job like that take? the mechanic i plan on taking it too(if it will run long enough) charged me 2 hours labor for the timing belt. its been one thing after another since the belt change. i'm thinking i should have left well enough alone.

as far as the ELD....if that code doesnt clear after a reset then i need to replace that too?

 
Rep Power: 209

replacing the crank sensor is basically the same amount of labor to change the timing belt, all the exact same parts need to be removed, including the timing belt,

after all the parts are removed, it then takes all of 30 seconds to unbolt the sensor and bolt the new one back on (one bolt)

 
Rep Power: 186

The timing belt itself doesn't need to be removed to get the sensor off. Just sayin....

 
Rep Power: 518

The only thing you can access is the connector. The actual sensor is under the timing cover.


He would have to get the cover off though.


The CEL does not have to be on when there are codes. (The EPA mandates that codes/problems affecting emissions must turn on the light, but some other codes/issues don't have to.)
That ELD code alone doesn't turn on the CEL, but it will be seen when codes are read. Yes, it probably needs replaced to get rid of the code. 99.9% are just a bad ELD, as outlined in that bulletin I linked earlier.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 186

Damn it, now I'm going to spend money I don't need to spend to replace this because I'm Mr. excessive maintenance guy.

 
Rep Power: 518

You could at least wait until it really goes bad. It's not like it will leave you stranded if it breaks, and not all of them go bad.

 
Rep Power: 186

So does the CEL actually come on if you just have a P1298? If it doesn't, then what are the symptoms that the ELD's bad?

 
Rep Power: 518

I have never seen a CEL come on for that code, so I should say NO.....but I don't know about other countries.

I know some people have failed emissions tests because of the code though, even though the CEL does not come on.


It just won't allow the alt. charging rate to drop in low load conditions AFAIK.

 
Rep Power: 186

Thanks for the info. I don't have any emissions testing here, so if I have no CEL for anything else I would never know it was there unless I just decided to take my scan tool and randomly check.

How the fudge does that have anything to do with failing an emissions test?

 
Rep Power: 518

Correct.


Many places read the computer and/or sniff the tailpipe.
Code? Fail.


Think like a clueless appliance user bureaucrat (or a manager):
ALL cars have 4 wheels, therefore they are ALL the same!
ALL codes MUST be a failure!
NO STICKER FOR YOU!





Just so we're clear, this sounds like management to me:
bu·reau·crat

   [byoor-uh-krat]
noun 1. an official of a bureaucracy.

2. an official who works by fixed routine without exercising intelligent judgment.

 
Rep Power: 0

i dropped the car by the mechanic today and he quoted me 200 to change the sensor and the top motor mount that should have been done a long time ago. he said he would just change it since it had to come off any way.

first,
is that a reasonable price?

second,
he said the ELD would resolve itself after the sensor was changed. is that accurate

thanks for all the responses

 
Rep Power: 518

No clue here, I don't do numbers.
Probably.
It can't ever fix itself, but the idiot light (CEL) won't be on.
The code will still be found if/when you plug a code reader in.

 
Rep Power: 0

i got call from the mech this evening to tell me the ELD was caused by a loose wire/short in the alternator. a new alternator runs to the tune of 120 bucks i think. i dont really have the cash for it now. can i let that go until i can scrape up to get it fixed? its been one thing after another with this car since the 100k service...

 
Rep Power: 518

PROBLEMS:
1) Alternator isn't going to cause an ELD code.
2) There is no way he can test the alternator unless the car is running.
3) MAKES ME WONDER IF HE BROKE SOMETHING AND IS TRYING TO COVER IT UP! Seems to be a common problem when someone tries to disconnect the wires from the alternator.

Please read this document that I already posted earlier:Either your mechanic doesn't know, is grasping at straws, or is hosing you.
Maybe you should show him that bulletin.
That should be all the car needs to get rid of the P1298 code.

-----------------------------------------------------------




Fix the crank position sensor so the car will run first.

If he broke a terminal on the alternator while doing the job, then IMHO he owes you an alternator. (I don't disconnect any alt. wires when I do a timing belt job.)
I'm not sure how that would play out at the shop I work in.....I don't know if the shop would eat the cost of an alt. or not...

 
Rep Power: 0

i'm going to go take a look at it in the morning. i havent paid much attention to the alternator connections so i'm going in blind and have no clue if he messed it up or it is a legit issue. the only thing i have to go on is that we had a battery die on us recently that wasnt in condition(wasnt that old) to die. thats neither here nor there but in the back of my mind i thought the alt was a problem.

where would i get an ELD (other than the dealer) and what is the average cost? what would the consequences be to just leave it as is?

 
Rep Power: 518

There is one plug with 3 or 4 wires, and one large wire bolted on the side of the alternator that carries the load of charging. I bet that will be the one----you may find the lug (stud and 10mm nut) broken off the side of the alternator if he broke it.


Cheap.
Look here:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...VIN+Number+---
$31 at an honest US dealer, or $22 (+ shipping) from that place. DIY instructions are in that bulletin if you want to try it.
I wouldn't even think of trying to buy it anywhere but a dealer.


Batteries can die at any time, and people can kill batteries too.
I see some last 8+ years.
Some never make it off the lot when the cars are brand new.
Crapshoot. That's part of the reason batteries are usually pro-rated on replacement price.

 
Rep Power: 209

i bet he broke that stud off, that seems to be a very common problem with these alternators, and that is the reason why i NEVER undo that bolt when i change a timing belt, i just remove the alternator and leave the wires connected,

the only time i would ever undo that bolt is if i was changing the alternator,

tell him to re-install the existing alternator and you might end up with a new one for free

 
Rep Power: 186

Well, I've undone that bolt multiple times without any issues. But, I'm very fortunate to live in a corrosion free area.

 
Rep Power: 209

consider yourself very lucky, one day it will unfortunately run out....still not worth the risk in my opinion, just rest the alternator on top of the rad area

 
Rep Power: 186

Considered. I look forward to the day it breaks so I can tell you "you told me so".

 
Rep Power: 518

I set it on top of the valve cover while doing the t-belt job.
I've had them fall off the radiator as the engine is moved up and down during the job.

 
Rep Power: 209

i guess everybody does things differently,

i normally remove the valve cover, so i take all that wiring that is on top of the valve cover and route it in front of the head by the exhaust manifold,

that provides alot of slack in the wiring, so i just sit the alt on top of the rad area

 
Rep Power: 0

here's the verdict......

sensor and top motor to the tune of 400 dollars. he said the alternator had a "broken lead but shouldnt be a problem." he also said that it would make the battery light flicker if was having issues. i dont have enough mech experience to know. i have driven it some and everything seems to be good. no power issues and the new mount squelched the vibration.

 
Rep Power: 209

leads dont break themselves, HE BROKE IT!

here is the translation.......

"i broke the stud/bolt off your alternator connection when i was undoing the bolt, i have repaired this connection using a half A$$ed method to the best of my abilities, you need to replace the alternator to make a proper connection, but im not going to eat that cost, if my half a$$ed repair job comes lose your battery light will come on, eventually this will drain your battery, will kill your battery, leaving you stranded at the side of the road, i am no longer responsible, thanks for your money and good luck!"

 
Rep Power: 193

Yeah I wouldn't think his "repair" job will hold up very well. He probably saw battery light flickering, that's why he said something. That means the connection isn't solid and will eventually break again, probably sooner than later.

The only way to fix that terminal properly is to take the alternator apart and replace the bolt. There are many ways to rig it up, most won't last very long though, its a really tough thing to rig up (I've tried).

You could try wiggling the terminal and see if its loose but beware it may come off. If you wait until his rig job breaks the shop will most likely deny they did anything wrong since it didn't happen right after the job.

Was this the same shop that did your 100k service (timing belt)? Whoever did the timing belt most likely messed up the crank sensor. I would hope the harness is in decent shape, a lot of people let coolant run all over it when they pull the water pump, this causes the leads to corrode and a new harness will need to be spliced in which requires a ton of labor.

I just don't get why Honda decided to design an alternator where you can't remove that bolt without a 50/50 chance of breaking it, I've never had this problem on any other car.