Rep Power: 0

Hows it going guys, ok so I am really hoping someone here can help me out with this problem I am having. Can't seem to figure out out. I have s 2005 civic LX and in early january my timing belt broke. So my dad and I took everything off and only replaced the belt because I didnt have the money to buy of the other parts. So on feburary the 15 I was driving and was going about 30 when my car died. I tried to crank herback up and it was makjng the same sound it did last time the belt broke. I had ACL surgery the next day and have just now been able to get back out and try and fix it. So my pops came over 2 days ago and we were going to repair the belt again but this time I bought a water pump and a new tentioner to put on. We opened her up and come to find out the belt want broken, only the spring has broke. So we put the new spring and tentioner and water pump on made sure out was at TDC and put everything back on. Went to fire out up and all it did was roll over..it didn't sound right when it was trying to start either. We tried push starting and still nothing. Here is a video that shows what it sounds like. If anyone knows what might be wrong I would really appreciate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWFC...e_gdata_player

 
Rep Power: 518

#1, it has no compression.
You better hope it is just flooded.

Is it in time properly? (cam/crank)
Sounds like it is either flooded or you are really hosed.
Did it bend valves? You have to figure that out on your own.



Pull all of the spark plugs out.
Pour about 3 fl/oz of clean engine oil into each cylinder. Crank the engine over, let the excess blow out.
Reinstall the plugs.
See if it sounds more normal when you crank it. If it sounds more normal, keep cranking it and play with the gas pedal. (There is a technique to this, but I can't explain it. Flooring the gas pedal while cranking shuts off the injectors.)
Maybe you could get it to run now.


If no joy, and it still sounds like in the video, then your next steps are a compression test, and cylinder leakdown tests.
Or see if any valves now have a huge amount of clearance, that could indicate they got bent.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

yes, i know its timed properly..Ill do the tests you said to do. If I have no compression that means bent valves for sure? if so what is my best option in fixing that.

 
Rep Power: 313

Your valves are bent, and possibly some piston damage.

You got VERY luck this didn't happen the first time you broke the belt.

You will either need to remove the head and rebuild it or buy a donor engine from a junkyard / kijiji.

Sorry, but im 99% sure on this. I've heard a car crank like that before.

 
Rep Power: 0

not what I wanted to hear...ok so when I take do the tests and it comes up that I have bent valves what is the next few steps I should take in order to have it fixed. My dad and I are going to be doing all the labor so I just need to know what i do next and what I will need to purchase. Thanks

 
Rep Power: 313

You have to remove the head. I recommend taking it to a machine shop to replace the valves after the head is taken off the car. You also have to check to make sure the pistons aren't destroyed.

 
Rep Power: 518

Look guys: Valves aren't the only possible thing that causes a loss of compression.
Flooding will make it lose compression, in a heartbeat.
The gasoline washes the oil film off of the cylinder walls, and the rings can't seal. Presto, there is the compression loss.

Oiling the cylinder walls can restore the seal and restore the compression. This is why I said to dump fresh oil down the sparkplug holes and crank it over.

IF this doesn't help, then you can look for expensive stuff.

A cylinder leakdown test is part of how you figure out if it really is bent valves.


(Yes, I know it lost the timing belt. I was figuring someone craknked the heck out of it and it was flooded. It WOULD be a free fix if it is.)
Oh well.
----------------------------------------------------

I JUST had to do this to a 97 Civic that lost its ignition coil.
Replaced the coil, cranked it, it fired and died.
Sounded exactly like the kids video after it died.
I said it needed the coil the first time around, and that's the ONLY cause of it not starting.

Do you really think the owner wanted to hear it needs a valve job, after I said all it needs is the coil to run?
Do you really think I would want to do an assload of totally unnecessary work?
Hellz no. I'm a LAZY SOB.
Do you really think I would give a wrong answer for this customer?
It was flooded. All I had to do was hold the gas pedal to the floor and crank it until it cleared out and fired up. (This was a driveway job for a neighbor, no oil handy. LOL)

 
Rep Power: 313

^ After a timing belt breaks if there is no compression the head should come off. He can do some checks etc. but I'm betting that the pistons came into contact with something. You know more than I do, no doubt so hopefully your fix works. I find it funny you care all of a sudden what the people want to hear though hahaha.

 
Rep Power: 0

Regardless, thanks to the both of you. I will do the tests first because like many I am a struggling college student so the cheaper the better for me for sure. Thanks again.

 
Rep Power: 518

Cheap (FREE!) stuff first, right? LOL



He said it was running after the first go-around with the timing belt. So I assume no valve damage at that time.

Then he said the tensioner spring broke, but he never said if it got out of time or if there was any other damage to the belt.
So right or wrong, I made an assumption based on that particular lack of info:
I have seen the PCM shut it down when the spring breaks, because the PCM sees the cam/crank correlation as more than a tooth out of correct time. Restore to normal, PCM then allows it to run.
Hell, disconnect the cam sensor and it lets the engine run even with the broken spring and out of time.



You know, I thought the same thing while I was typing that out.
I must be ill. Send me to a doctor.

 
Rep Power: 313

Hahaha yea I don't have to knowledge to know about the PCM stuff. I just know from past history that generally if the tensioner comes free you lose your timing. If you get lucky once and don't smash the valves up the second time you should be playing the lottery.

I agree though, free stuff first

 
Rep Power: 0

Belt was fine, not sure if it was still in time didnt check.

 
Rep Power: 0

Your engine has zero compression. That's what mine sounds like when i turn it with the spark plugs out. I'm not sure how you managed to not bend valves the first time the timing belt broke.

These are interference engines and things mesh together when not in time. You lost timing again when the tensioner spring broke and the belt probably skipped a tooth or two. You most certainly bent stuff up when you tried to restart the engine on a broken belt. At this point you most likely have bent valves and piston damage.

This is actually an important point. If your interference engine just dies randomly while driving, DO NOT try to crank it back up until you can pull the upper timing cover off and verify the belt is not broken.

Start looking for a new engine. In the mean time, pour some oil down the holes to see if you can get the rings to re-seat, I doubt this is the problem though, but what the heck, just try it.

When the oil in the pistons thing doesn't work, pull the head off and post pictures of your valves and pistons on here as a reminder to everyone to replace timing belts on interference engines before it's too late.

 
Rep Power: 221

Listen to the "poof poof" after the first turn over. That is the sound of compression being lost through the intake valves.
That engine has ZERO compression. I've heard that sound enough times to know exactly what your problem is. Flooded engines DO NOT sound like that when there is no compression.

Oh yeah. Is your CEL on?

 
Rep Power: 313

Is it possible the car skipped a couple teeth and is still not timed properly?

 
Rep Power: 518

You may be right.
I tried listening a couple more time, but I just can't hear that much detail on this laptop.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok so I took the spark plugs out, poured 3 Oz oil, put the plugs back in.. Went to turn it over and it just made this weird "thunk" sound...turned it over a few more times with the same result. Any ideas?

 
Rep Power: 518

You didn't follow some simple instructions. Go back and read my first reply.

You were NOT to put the plugs back in until the engine was cranked over to blow out the excess oil.

You hydrolocked it. You cannot compress liquid.



HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

Now that it's hydrolocked, it's a good chance that you have major damage in the bottom end including bent connecting rods.

 
Rep Power: 518

Naaah, it didn't go into a river crossing at redline/WOT.
The chances of serious damage with just cranking the starter are far slimmer. Possible, but slimmer.

OP: Pull the plugs out and crank it.
Clean the oil off of the plugs with carb and throttle cleaner, or brake cleaner, or maybe rubbing alcohol. Or gas.
Dry the plugs.
Reinstall them.
Try this again. See how it cranks.

 
Rep Power: 0

I completely disagree. The chances of hydro-locking just by cranking the starter are very real and highly probable. I should know, I've hydro locked and bent connecting rods just by cranking, with water in only half the cylinders. That was water, Oil is much less compressible and the fact that the OP poured oil down all four holes....its bye bye connecting rods.

These starters have enough torque to get the car rolling if it's in gear (manual transmission, clutch lock out disabled). There is most certainly enough torque to transform measly stock connecting rod into pretzels.

To the OP, really sorry about what happened. Not only are your valves done, the bottom end is toast as well. Good luck sourcing a new motor. They're not that hard to swap out.

 
Rep Power: 193

The "thunk" noise would concern me.

If the car has zero compression wouldn't the oil just squirt through the valves?

 
Rep Power: 518

Just the bent ones.

 
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Ok, sorry about that. Ill takethem out and do as you said. Ill let you know what happens from there. Thanks again.

 
Rep Power: 313

OY. Perhaps you should take it to someone before any further damage gets done?

 
Rep Power: 221

This situation went from bad to even worse really quick.
If you poured three ounces of oil into each cylinder or 3oz divided among the four cylinders you are obviously ignorant of the laws of physics pertaining to compressing fluid. You just learned the hard way a very expensive lesson.
Now your rabbit hole has gotten much deeper because you killed your engine. Period, end of story.
You must now start shopping for a used engine or have it rebuilt.

 
Rep Power: 0

No I poured 3Oz in each hole.....

 
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Eell I blew the oil out and cleaned the plugs off, dryed them pit them back in. cranked it but it still sounds just the it did in the video...

 
Rep Power: 313

STOP CRANKING IT.

You need to remove the timing belt covers and make sure your still timed properly. IF you are timed properly you NEED to remove the cylinder head off the car and do a good INSPECTION before you DESTROY IT. As I mentioned you should have done in the first place.

 
Rep Power: 0

I was just doing what ezone said to do...and I have no idea why it would be out of time. I JUST replaced the belt water pump tentioner and spring like 4 days ago after the previous spring broke...