Brian1037

Went to the mechanic today to have my winter tires put on. Turns out that the wheel locks I had put on were the wrong thread. So 4 studs are ruined, one on each brake.

He changed the two rear ones in 5 minutes. He tried to fix the front ones as best he could but he couldn't. I love this mech and he does a great job, and I've been going to him for a long time (as has my dad). So if he couldn't fix the front ones, I doubt anyone could've.

He estimated me "easily $500" and 3 hours to change the front ones. He said he'd need to take apart the brake. Is this a good estimate? I'm currently rolling on 3 bolts on each front rim, how long can I keep this up for?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

while its not immediately dangerous, its not good either. you will be warping the brakes each time you use them. i would get it fixed asap. the estimate is high, im not sure why it costs that much unless he is replacing the entire hub or something.

Brian1037

He mentioned something about a needing a press. Unfortunately it was all in French and I didn't catch it all (my French car terms aren't so good). I thought $500 was high too.

anibis

Yeah the front hubs will need to be pressed out to replace the studs, it's not recommended to re-press a used wheel bearing so you may need 2 new wheel bearings as well.

$500 does seem high, it would take a good mechanic about 45min per side, hour tops. I would have all the studs on the front replaced while your at it.

Wheel bearings from Honda are about $80 a piece, I went with Timken bearings (made in Japan) and paid $50.

MindBomber

It's not a terrible estimate, a conservative mechanic might estimate an 45 minutes per side to remove the knuckle since between separating the ball joints, removing the axle nut, and taking the knuckle off the axle there are few points where you can encounter difficulties. Then 30 minutes per side to separate and press the new studs and bearings into place, and an additional 30 minutes per side for re-install.

3.5 hours in labour - $300-350
Bearings and wheel studs - $150-200

My estimate would be $450-550

anibis

I dunno, I've never had much trouble getting any Honda knuckle off since I learned the trick to popping the ball joints. The axle nut can be a pain with hand tools but only if the nut has been off before and was torqued to 500ft/lbs.

I just remember the shop quoting me 1.8 hours in labor for a wheel bearing when it took me 15 min to get the knuckle off and 10 min to get it back on and took the shop 20 min to press. I guess I cheated a little because I didn't have to mess with the rotor retainer screws.

I just don't trust shops labor quotes, they go by what the computer says, not by how much time they actually spend on the car.

MindBomber

oh I agree, I could remove my entire front suspension from both sides within an hour, because I've done it so many times and everything's being anti-seized. Shops all estimate high on the amount of time it will take them to do a job though, and $500 isn't that bad based on typical shop rates..

Brian1037

Hm ok thanks for the info. I'll be on 3 front studs each side for a week or two at most. Too bad, I would've like to try to fix it myself but with Winter so close and the temp dropping, and school, the timing is too bad.

pjb3

Depending on how badly damaged the studs are you may be able to run a die over them to clean up the threads. I would think the wheel locks had to be too big or they would never have gone on and if this is the case they may have just damaged the outer edge of the threads enough to keep new lug nuts from starting. Chasing the threads with a die should clean them up. Worst case, if the threads are badly damaged and there is not enough thread left after the die cleans them up, the lug nut will strip the threads. My guess is that even with the cleaned up threads you should still be able to get 80 plus ft/lbs of torque.

Beta

That's how technicians are paid, flat rate commission. A Job takes a certain amount of time. The tech gets paid for each job at an hourly rate. Say I get a job to replace 2 rotors, and it's flat time says it's supposed to take 1 hour to bring the car into the shop, lift it in the air, take the wheels off and remove and replace both rotors, and repeat those steps backwards. Let's say I get paid $22 per commissioned hour. No matter what I will only get paid for 1 hour of work, whether it takes me 2 hours to do all of that, or 45 minutes, I still get paid for an hour. The goal is to beat that time. That's how you make your money as a technician, get the car in and out of the shop faster than the book/computer time says.

And if the car comes back you work for free.

It is very rare that technicians are paid on an hourly pay rate like a lot of jobs. The only ones that do are in a special company, or if they are are new like an apprentice or lube tech.

It certainly would suck that the faster and harder you work the less the customer pays and the less you get paid. Some places can make it work on hourly, but they have incentives still to keep techs working fast. Otherwise why work fast when you can make the same amount of money working at your own pace.


As far as stripped wheel studs go, I would try and tap/die them first. If it fails, you can remove the steering knuckle pretty easily and then take it somewhere that has a press. Press out the hub, and hammer out the studs on a vice.

It really helps if you have air tools though, especially for the ball joints. 1/2" impact is preferred. I had to replace 2 studs on my brother's honda when he cross threaded and snapped two of them.

3 hours seems on par with the labor rate. Jobs like this usually pay a bit more than others to compensate for the tools the technician has to buy to do such job. I recall doing wheel bearings on a Honda Odyssey and it paid 1.5 hours for the one side.