combinatorix

Hey all. I have a 2005 civic that I bought with ~105,000 miles on it. It now has 119,000 and I figured it was time to do a single drain & fill on the automatic transmission while I did my oil change. This is the first ATF fluid change I have done.

Apparently the refill volume is supposed to be 2.9 qts. To be sure, I measured what drained out in a gallon milk jug that I marked up with gradations by the pint. I expected to get less than 2.9 qts, instead nearly 3.5 qts came out! Has this happened to any of you guys? I don't think I ever got a serious reading on the dipstick prior to changing the fluid, so it could have been overfilled for the last 14k miles. The surface I was working on had the car facing slightly downhill - front wheels maybe a few inches under the rears - could this cause more fluid to come out?

Anyway, I put 3 qts of new ATF-DW1 fluid back in, figuring I'd play it somewhere inbetween. Drove to it level ground, and checked the fluid while idling. It seems to be teetering a hair above the max line on the dipstick.

What's the proper procedure for checking ATF fluid level? Should I drain it so the fluid centers in the hash marks, or am I OK leaning over the top side of max? Tomorrow I am going to try rechecking the level after work, also chug another gallon of milk and confirm how much old fluid I have...

Thanks!

Matt_75

Different people will give you different answers.

I prefer to drain and fill 3 times, driving about 10 miles in between drain and fills.

This is what I consider a thorough flush of the trans including the torque converter which houses the majority of the fluid that doesn't get drained initially.

The Honda owners manual is actually what recommends the 3 drain and fills.

I believe it's page 221 that recommends this.

And I prefer to have the level somewhere in the hash mark, preferably in the middle.

link7

I did one drain and fill on my 2005 a couple months ago and I encountered the same thing; more came out than i expected. Before the drain/fill, the dipstick always had fluid above the max line and I didn't seem to notice any issues.

After I drained and then filled it back up, I stopped when fluid went to the top of the hash marks even though I put less in than I took out.

I drove around a couple miles and checked it and the fluid level was good.

Checked it a week later still good.

If you're just slightly over, by just a hair, like you said, I don't think I'd worry about it.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i really hope the full synthetic dw1 does not cause problems with your older trans. but on that old of a car, i wouldve checked the fluid condition first to make sure it was at least dark red before changing it. to check the level, drive the car thru all the gears for at least 30 mins (mostly city driving). Park the car and put it in park, leave the engine running. check the dipstick 5-10 times til you get an accurate reading. you need to pull out the stick fast otherwise the whole thing will be covered in fluid. the amount drained can vary depending on whether the car is hot or cold, and the angle. sometimes only 2.6 qts comes out, sometimes 3.2 qts when ive done it.

combinatorix

I would certainly hope the switch to the new synthetic stuff won't hurt. Right now it's a mix, so maybe a slow introduction will help. Fortunately I am in the process of saving up for a new car (maybe a year from now?) - if my transmission dies from Honda's own recommended DW-1 fluid, I will be sure to let you guys know, and I will stick it to them by switching car brands!

The plan was to do a single change every ~10k miles, lining up with every other oil change, and to save myself from having to do the 3x drain&fill dances.. The fluid was a darkish red, nothing too scary came out besides the gunk on the drain bolt. I thought it smelled faintly burnt, which is why I changed it, but it was hard to distinguish from the normal, dank ATF smell.

Seemed to be shifting fine today, so that's a good sign. My hope is that if it was previously overfilled, maybe my gas mileage will now go up that it's lower

MarkoPollo

Same happenend to me. i had to used 3 and 1/3 bottles to get the ATF dipstick bang on.

I'd assume everything is good. It takes some driving to cycle all the fluid back down to where the drain plug is. Check it after 300 miles or so. Originally i just put in the 3 bottles and it looked good. After i drove it for a bit I saw it was slightly low and added the extra 1/3.

They switched the fluids cause it's better not worse. It's the clutch pack carriers that they should have replaced, no the ATF fluid, lol.

MarkoPollo

any shavings on the magnetic plug?

5g civic

on hondas and acuras the enige has to be off to get a correct reading on the atf dipstick

combinatorix

There was a good layer of nasty black goop on the plug... felt good wiping it clean

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

no, it has to be on for a correct reading because the fluid needs to be circulating. every second after the car is turned off, the fluid drops back to the converter and will give a higher reading on the stick. while the service manual does tell you to check immediately after shutting the engine off, it is more because of safety reasons (so you dont get your clothes caught in the spinning pulleys). You might be able to get one good reading if you check within 5 seconds of turning the car off. for most people, that is nowhere near accurate.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

You are mistaken.

Engine warm, Engine off, Level ground.

" For accurate results wait about 60 second (but not longer than 90 seconds)"

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

if i went by the service manual description you gave, i would only have to add back 2 qts of fluid after a drain and fill for the stick to show full. when the car is running it would show barely at MIN. i already tried that method years ago and it doesnt work. if you like driving 1 qt low all the time go right ahead. the honda manual also states the drain volume as 2.9 qts. so either they are wrong about the drain volume or wrong about checking the fluid level. which one is it? i personally dont think only 2 qts would come out during a drain and fill. i measure each time and i get between 2.7-3.2 out depending on when and how i drain it (car warm or cold, jacked up or on the ground, etc). i've always put in right around 3qts of fluid and when i check the level with the car warmed up and running, i get it right on the MAX line. when i check a minute after shutting the car off, i get nearly an inch above the max line. lets assume your way is correct. that means i would be draining 3 qts and only adding 2 qts for the level to read at max. makes no sense at all. i want to make sure other members posting here get the correct info. if you dont know what to believe, i suggest measuring the oil that came out to see what you need to add back in to get close. shound be close to 3 qts. then check the level afterwards to make sure it is at max with the engine running. if you check with the engine off, even after 10 secs, the reading will be incorrect. the atf fluid is designed to be at max capacity while running, otherwise the service manual would have said wait at least 10 mins until all the oil falls back into the pan, like checking the engine oil.

Biscuit

That is how it's done.
According to Honda.

Ron IL

When I took my 2001 Civic I just bought to the dealer for an oil change I asked him about changing the oil in the transmission. He told me just changing the oil will not really do you good because it does not get all of the oil and clean the filter. I have 120k miles on it. There is a screen that collects the big stuff and they need to do a flush to backflush the filter to clean it out. So I had them do that. I think he told me that Honda recommends that every 30k miles. I think that was about $160. When I get used car I like to go over it pretty good and get the belts and hoses. I drive an hour each way to work. The mpg has been great. Up to 39.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

it may make you feel better if they told you that, but there is no physical way to "backflush" a filter. it will still be dirty unless you tear open the trans and replace it. again, bad design flaw because previous trans had a pan you can drop to change the filter. and future gens have an external filter. if you look at the actual 7thgen auto filters, they use a very fine filter media, not for catching big stuff but for catching everything. once it clogs, you're done. just changing the oil will make a huge difference. the capacity is 6 qts, and you are replacing 3 qts with each drain and fill. if you drain and fill 3 times, you will only have less than 1 qt of old fluid left and this will greatly improve trans life and shifting if you do it often. waiting 30k miles is the reason there are so many honda trans failures (not just on civics, but accords and acuras and odysseys). the old z1 fluid is inferior and barely lasts 10k miles before it is too broken down to protect the trans. unless you change the z1 every 10k or less, you are putting extra wear on the trans and it will fail sooner, usually by around the 100k mark. it also has too high a viscosity rating for this particular trans. switching to a lower viscosity fluid can help you get a bit more life because it can get thru the clogged filter better.

this is an old 7thgen internal filter, no way any kind of back flush will affect it. this pic is after the center of the filter was physically wiped clean. notice the thick black gunk everywhere else. and if you do get "lucky" and the back flush somehow worked, all that junk would clog the tiny ports and solenoids of the trans, which is even worse than leaving the filter dirty.

MarkoPollo

Watch the tranny flushes, there are tons of people that warn against them, do a search.