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2001 Civic LX D17A1 with auto.

My head gasket is going and I am debating rebuilding the head and doing the water pump and timing belt. the engine is at 260,000 km (150,000 miles) and if I do this, I'm good for another 100,000km hoping the bottom end is good.

or

I can swap in a complete engine from an 04 acura 1.7 el and it only has around 60,000 kms (35,000 miles) and relax for another 60,000 kms before doing the timing belt (and probably the gasket as well).

Does anyone know if they fixed the gasket issue for the 04 and 05 changes to the civic?

 
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I've done the timing belt and water pump on mine a couple years ago, and today I'm starting the headgasket swap. I know its a lot of work but I would think swapping the whole engine would be worse.

Having said that, I've never done an engine swap, so don't listen to me.

 
Rep Power: 359

These posts make me nervous. I'm at 136k miles and as far as I can tell (knock on wood) my head gasket is holding on. I really don't want to go there if I can avoid it. Although, I would still think this is better than a complete engine swap. . At least with a reconditioned head you would know where you stood with the rest of the engine, which you wouldn't know with a used. The only way I think I would change an engine is if I knew 100% that the engine was new or at least in better condition than mine.

 
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I would assume the engine with less km's would be in better shape. It has 1/3rd the mileage.

As far as crossing your fingers on your head gasket, it seems like it's just a matter of time before EVERYONE's goes,

 
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I would invest in a used oil analysis and see what the health of the engine is currently, if it's in good condition other than the head gasket then don't do the swap. I say that because in 2004 the D17 was converted to wideband 02 sensors, which are around $600 U.S. compared to $50 for the narrow band found in 2001-2003 engines.

 
Rep Power: 313

At this point it's just everyones opinions so I'll give mine. My head gasket went at 140k kms and I changed it. The car now has 174k kms and It hasn't shown a single sign of problems yet. These engines are designed to last a long time. If your doing the work yourself remove the head and get it sent out. If you find the head is warped replace the head with a new one for ~200 dollars and your set to go with all your maintenance work done. I've heard horror stories of people buying engines with 30-60k and them not functioning properly. You know this engine works, you just need to make sure it's in good shape

 
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I agree with tbohar. As for this so? If he is just swapping the engine his O2 sensors are in the up pipe and the exhaust, why would the engine matter?

 
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^because the 04/05 ecu won't run the narrow band sensors, I'm not sure if you could swap the engine for a later model and keep the 01-03 ecu on a D17a2. I know it definitely wouldn't work if it were a D17a1.

 
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a2 for a2, should be fine with his old ecu, may have to swap a couple electronics, but otherwise ok.

 
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It shoullld function...... damn wideband O2's... insanely expensive

 
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Thanks for correcting me johndeere, I was thinking about that after I posted it and second guessing myself.

 
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You're welcome man. Not trying to be a jerk or anything. Primarily just want to expand his options
Sometimes its not nearly as hard as its made out to be....

 
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me thinks the bottom end is strong enough to last a long time. it's not a weak point of the D17 for sure. the weak point is the HG.

Darn, I can't rep you again for a while, Jonhdeerebones.

 
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What's rep? I have had the trans out and replaced the head gasket lately too. While the head gasket was a pain in the butt, it wasn't nearly the pain that pulling the trans was and pulling an engine is right on par with that or a little more of a pain.

 
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Just change the headgasket cause I mean your the owner and you have been drivin it so you should kno how good it runs till the HG blew, now still just get the head checked and resurfaced just in case. Changing a head gasket is easier than you think. If you don't kno how to do it just get a manual and read it and do it. All you need is that manual, torque wrench, regular rachet set and the easy righty tighty lefty lossy.

 
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the green boxes in the bottom of your user box - if you give good advice, the members will give you good reputation. you can see the comments in your user panel too

 
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It's not quite grab a wrench and loosen **** kinda job but it isn't all that difficult

 
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It basically is loosen and tightin bolts most the time. That and unpluggin sensors, and unpluggin some hoses. The only major thing you need to kno is getting the timing right and its not hard to do that especially wit the head off, just turning the crank till TDC and putting the cams the right way as well where the marks match up. Then that's mainly it, besides needin the torque wrench to torque everything that is really needed to be torqued down right. Its not a difficult job, takes me a 1 hour or alittle more to take the head off and bout 3 hours or so putting it back together. Its not real difficult just takes alittle time.

 
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1 hour? I don't think so. maybe if youve done it a dozen or so times.. you can't expect others to have your knowledge of the job.. it will take 3 days to DIY for the first time.

 
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the thing is this... I've had the car for 8 weeks. I've got no idea what the bottom end is like. I've got no real idea how the engine is supposed to run because the only time i've pushed it at all (aka going 130km/hr) I noted that the coolant overflow was spewing coolant all over the engine. i'm not sure if it was well maintained or not.


can't I use my 01-03 ecu on the 04 d17a2 and continue to use the narrow band o2? Does anyone know for sure?

 
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Have you done the head gasket job?

 
Rep Power: 313

I've done a head gasket... but if you put in a narrowband sensor on a wideband ECU I don't think it will work without a check engine light... it could have other negative effects too.

The job isn't too bad if you take your time and be meticulous.. The problem with this job is if you eff it up it usually means a major engine problem. (Like slipped or snapped timing belt or having to redo the head gasket again)... I did it 30k ago and the car still runs like a dream. Sorry it went so shortly after you got it. If you do look at the bright side though after this absolutely all your maintenance should be done, assuming your changing the timing belt while at it. Just make absolutely sure you send the head to a machine shop, not a mechanic shop to get checked.. If you buy a new engine how do you know the head gasket isn't blown???

 
Rep Power: 285

Some people get really offended when someone corrects them, I'm definitely not one of them, if you correct me then you helped me learn something. That's what I'm here for after all!

The first time I lowered my Civic it took me 6 hours, when I swapped in my coilovers I had it done and was on a test drive within an hour. The first time you just need to go crazy slow so you do it right

No, it's one of the few things I haven't done, my engine has pretty low miles and hasn't needed it.

Seriously though, almost anyone can could do a head gasket if they have some basic experience. You just need to take your time, use lock tight and a torque wrench, pay attention to timing marks and you shouldn't have any trouble.

Ps. The longer you leave it the more likely your head will warp.

 
Rep Power: 214

3 days geez the 1st head gasket job I did was a yr ago and it took me barely a day. It was on a ls and on ls motors you have to take the cams out just to get to the head studs so you basically had to take the head almost completely apart. Now I started at 10 am got the head and everything off at 12:30 took the head to napa to get it resurfaced and checked for cracks, went back and got it at 4, went home and put it all back together and had her cranked by 7 or 8. So basically working on the car was only bout 7 hours of labor.

 
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I've done heads on 4.3 V6 and it took me several days to get all of the junk out of the way to get them off. Looking at my Civic, it does appear to be easier. There is only 1 head on it first of all. However, there is a similar amount of stuff that needs to be removed.

That being said, I would like to see video of a 1st time head gasket job taking someone only an hour and a half. I just don't see it. Even with a good amount of planning, a first timer would probably only have the intake off, the oil and coolant drained, and maybe a couple of hoses and sensors off in the first hour. The power steering and alternator in the next hour, the manifold off in the third hour. If things continue at that pace you might have the heads of in hour 5 or 6. Even still I think this would be impressive for a newbie.

Machine shops around here seem to take 24-48 hours to soak and clean the head and inspect it. Another day or so if you need some work done to it.

So you are looking at at least 2 full days of work for a newbie. The 4.3 heads I did were my first experience and it took me several full days of work to get everything swapped out. The heads were probably an hours worth by themselves, but everything else in their way was what took the most time. The fuel lines, exhaust manifolds, cooling fan, AC, power steering, alternator. All of this stuff takes a lot of time and some finagling with wrenches to get them out. Even having done the 4.3 heads, I don't think I could get them out again in an hour. Just no way, not while maintaining some level of quality.

 
Rep Power: 367

02civicsi02,

you forgetting the frozen bolts that not even PB blast, torches and stuff break loose, the bolts that are in places that only a diminutive japanese engineer would think of in placing them there (me hands did not fit some of the spaces...), plus some stuff you end up breaking (hint: use beam type torque wrench when tightening darned 12ft/lbs bolts and nuts...), etc, etc, plus the darned overflow reservoir cap that tends to disappear after you fill the coolant, etc, etc.... waaargh!

Ah! the hidden intake bolts just under the intake support, which the manual indicates 2 (not 3, as they are actually there...)

Oh, yeh, while in there, cleaning up the engine from all the gunk and stuff took 2 days or more...

 
Rep Power: 313

I don't really care how long it took you. Don't give people the idea that it's an easy job and that you can get it done in 2 hours because its unrealistic... Were not here to brag about our mechanical ability and how long this took and that took. Truth is it will take him a few days to do if it's his first time. The problem with giving advice like "You can get it done in 6 hours" is that if he needs the car for work tommorow and he tears it apart today he probably won't have a car the next day and will be scrambling to get to work. So your advice should go unheeded... Good for you for completing a head gasket job in 7 hours, mad props to you. But don't give **** advice that is unrealistic to most first timers because it's not fair to them.

 
Rep Power: 214

You don't have to take the intake fully out just the pipe, the power steering didn't need to come out. Don't really need to drain the antifreeze, or the oil unless water in it, don't need to take the header fully off either just loosen the bolts to the head and pull it off. Now I'm not braggin on how I can do this so quick just saying. Now if you need a picture or something I can show you the integra right now in my yard that has the head off it and it has the intake, header, power steering and so forth still in it. Lots of things can be avoided when doin this.

 
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^I'm not taking sides, but in my experience B-series engines are simpler to work on than our late model D series engines. It just feels like there's less **** in the way and move when trying to access parts.

It also depends exactly how much work your doing, you wouldn't be able to change the tensioner, cps or water pump on a D17 without removing the ps pump and you typically change those along with the head gasket.

 
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How do you change a head gasket without draining the coolant? How do you take the water pipe out without having the coolant drained? How do you remove the alternator without removing the p/s pump??? How do you remove the engine mount without removing the alternator? I wanna know for the next time I do it now.. heh.