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Hey ya'll I got my Civic LX in 2002 Feb. and now it's Aug. 2005. I have never exchanged my brake fluid yet, but I could feel like my brakes aren't responsive as they used to be before. I know I need to change the brake fluid. Anyone know how much it costs..? And up to how long has everyone here kept their brake fluid in for....very curious to know...

 
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honda's use a specific brake fluid, only available at dealer (as far as i know.) many shops like the ones i work at offer free brake inspections, try that. is it low? it just may need to be bled if the friction material and surface is still good. some people often confuse poor brakes with poor shocks, i have seen this many times at both of my garages. please be more specific about not responsive. the only fluid exchange is a (gravity) bleed untill empty then you refill the master, that is what we do at my garages, there is not 1:1 flush machine for brake fluid.

 
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I need to get mine done as well.
I have an 01
I got it in Oct. 01 and never changed the fluid on that
or the power steering

 
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you shouldnt need to change your brake fluid, but a flush is available for p/s

 
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hm.

is it better if you flush ur brake fluid after pad and rotor change?

 
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the only reason you should need to change your fluid is if air got into the system. other than that you should not need to change it at all.
http://www.carcarecouncil.org/Brakes/brake_fluid.shtml
here ya go

 
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even then just bleeding the lines will cure it, who told you you need new brake fluid?

 
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hm. then the question is......do i really need to bleed my brake fluid after my brake job?

im going to replace all pads and rotors.....and also rear drums and pads....they all busted.

 
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what do you mean busted? you shouldnt need to bleed them but it def. will not hurt, and make sure the resivour is full, just watch out compressing the front pistons, make sure the drums are on the rears or you may blow your wheel cylinders in the rear...
you dont need to bleed them because the pistons are just decompressed there is no way for air to get in(dont touch bleeder screws...)

 
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I cant believe that I am hearing people sit here and say that brake fluid doesnt ever need to be changed. Brake fluid like oil needs to be changed at certain intervals to help prevent damage to the system. Like oil, if you dont change it the additives and detergents in the oil will break down and you will be left with regular oil which does nothing for the engine but introduce deposits and basically ruin the engine. well the same goes for brake fluid. Brake fluid over time will break down and the boling point of the fluid will lower and eventually it will lower to the point that when you heat up the brakes, the fluid will boil and evaporate, thus leaving you with no brakes when you try and stop. At the same time, the corrosion additives in the fluid will break down and the contamination in the fluid will start eating away at the brake components causing failure. Moisture also will make it way into the system over time. that is why it is recommended to bleed and flush your brakes every 12,000 miles.
Now there are a few methods to change the fluid. You can do gravity bleeding, you can manual bleed the brakes with the help of a partner, you can vacuum bleed the brakes, or use a pressure bleeding machine. it varies by shop.

Now what you need to do is fully inspect the brake system. If you havent touched the brakes since you bought it or have only done pad changes, you may need new pads, shoes, rotors, drums, etc... you need to make sure that your pads and shoes are wearing evenly, if not you may have stuck up calipers/wheel cylinders. But I would definetly get your brake fluid flushed ASAP.

 
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As time goes by, your rubber hoses and other parts of your brake system ware away, this means that there are small parts of the brake hose actually setting in the brake fluid. Part of the brake fluids job is to keep these particles from depositing on the side walls of the tubing and such, if this happens it can cause low pressure and extremely bad braking. You can see this because new brake fluid is somewhat clear, the brake fluid in your car is closer to black, these small particles of hose and what not are what make it black. As the fluid suspends this stuff it will have a change in hydrolic properties and when close to it's saturation point it will be able to be compressed more than fresh fluid, hence causing a mushy brake feelling. By this time it is desperatly needed to change the fluid and bleed the brakes untill fresh looking fluid comes out.

 
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"Modern brake systems have a see through reservoir and don't have to be opened to check the level.

The cap has a rubber diaphragm in it so air and moisture is NOT drawn in as the level goes down.

You should NEVER add fluid as the pads wear down (again, no reason to open that cap). If you have
to add fluid due to a leak, then you have greater problems, fix leak, change fluid.

Modern brakes do NOT require bleeding after changing pads (still keeping that cap closed).

So unless you are opening the cap for no good reason at all, very little moisture or contamination is going to get into the system.

The link posted to the article seems focused on getting service places to charge for the service. It is not consumer oriented. It's like Jiffy Lube insisting that you still MUST get your oil changed every 3000 miles (bunch of bull) when all the car manufacturers state 7500 miles. Just trying to generate revenue."


now since your going to pay someone to exchange your brake fluid im going to guess you never opened you master cylinder so the system is sealed with no way to allow any contaminates to enter the system

just think modern oils are processed a lot better than before, and people never exchange their fluid have braking systems(non wearable parts) that last the life of the car (just under 200000miles)


"Brake fluid over time will break down and the boling point of the fluid will lower and eventually it will lower to the point that when you heat up the brakes, the fluid will boil and evaporate, thus leaving you with no brakes when you try and stop."

brake fluid is an oil and an oil never loses its vescosity it was processed to, it only losses the ablitily to suspend particles,
now oil cant evaporate, only the water with it can, plus having that much water in the system, plus heating up brakes that hot is not a daily drive situation.

plus the braking system is a hydraulic system, (completely hypothetical situation- not likely to ever occure, but if it does this will happen) according to Charles' law when the water evaporates into a vapor within the lines the pressure within the lines will increase due [to the] temperature [it takes to boil water] - Charles' law
so in that situation the brakes would be held under more pressure, not a loss, the loss would be when the lines blow because the tires locked up and the lines cannot hold the pressure anymore...

 
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Man Two Vaild Points Of View!

What To Do.

I'll Change It When I Get Steel Lines

 
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either way man if done correctly changing the system cant hurt it, the question is, does it really need it, the choice is yours, if you can afford it, do it...
yesterday i changed one of the rubber lines in a 1970 dodge dart swinger, the other stock lines are still good[well they work for 35 years of use lol]

 
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Brake fluid just like oil has corrosion inhibitors. And over time, those corrosion inhibitors deplete. That is why oil has to be changed every 3-10,000 miles. all the additives in the oil over time wear out. the viscocity improvers wear out, inhibiotors wear out, any cleaning additives wear out. Eventually you are left with basic oil. And that will kill the engine. I have seen cars that have never changed the oil, it is a major sludge build up in the engine.

Well the same basic principle applies to brake fluid. Brake fluid has a boiling point. I dont know the exact specifications for DOT 3 and DOT 4, but those specifications are usually higher then what the brake system usually sees on a daily basis. Not alot of drivers out there that run there brakes do death generally upgrade to DOT 4 to handle the extra heat.

Now over time, water can be absorbed though the rubber hose from humidity that settles on the brake lines. it doesnt just have to happen at the resovoir. Most brake systems after a few years absorb a max of 3% water. Also over time the boiling point will decrease because of the addition of water which the corrosion inhibitors are supposed to take care of, but since they deplete, they cant. DOT 3 and DOT 4 are considered "hydroscopic" which measn they absorb moisture over time. And when this happens, corrosion of internal brake parts take place. Now as the boiling point starts to decrease, so does the braking ability. And just as I said before, if you start to heat up your brakes and you have a low boiling point, and once you reach that max boiling point, you basically boil the fluid. When any liquid boils, it evaporates. now since you have a closed system, once the fluid cools down, it will condense back into liquid. Now if you boil the fluid, and it evaporates, you basically have nothing but air. Just like the ac system, when the refirgerant hits the evaporator, the fluid is boils and evaporates and turn into vapor, same thing with the brake fluid. Now you can compress vapor and at that point you have nothing to force the wheel cylinders and pistons into the pads and shoes, thus causing brake failure.

So ultimetly changing the brake fluid every few years is critical to the safety of the driver. And to prevent the brakes internal components to fail or wear out premeturely. Every fluid in the car over time wears out. whatever additive in it will eventuallty fade away or deplete. Even the AC system atracts moisture over time even though its a closed system. that is why they recommend AC services out there to remove the old fluid into a recovery/recycle machine and vacuum out the system to remove the moisture and also at the same time replace the old reciever.drier with a new one to help prevent any moisture from occuring. I dont care if a fluid says it will last 100,000 miles, I dont believe it. Just like the new mobil 1 oil that lasts 15,000 miles. I dont believe that one bit. would you go 15,000 miles inbetween oil changes? I doubt it, and I would never recommend that to a customer. Even techs I worked with change there oil every 3000 miles. And that is on there high end luxury cars.

 
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^^^ exactly

Also there is no such thing a non-ware parts. When you apply the brakes, you put pressure on the brake lines, they expand. Then you let off the brakes and they contract, and just like anyother hydrolic hose this wares them down overs time, eventually small parts from the hose will break off and become suspended in the oil. eventually the oil wil become saturated as I stated above. If you do not believe, then explain why used brake fluid turn black? It's from the suspension of small rubber particles from the tube. How do I know this, because I have friends that design this stuff, both the oil and the lines (both of these are desinged by chemical engineers).

 
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Yes the lines stilll hold pressure, but you feel them they are probably softer than new lines. This causes a mushy feel in the brakes pads because now the lines are expanding more than they were designed to and more work from you foot is going into expanding the lines than orginally.

You have a good point that if done PROPERLY, it won't hurt.

 
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i would go with the simple addendum to Murphys' law:

If it was meant to be put into the car it was meant to be taken out of the car as well.....

 
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I would do what the manual says to do...