TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

READ THIS NOW:

This thread was made so we can keep the research thread to strictly research. All comments, questions, concerns, ideas, thoughts, whatever- should be posted here. This is just to keep the other thread condensed with info for easy navigation. THANKS!!

susuking

iTrader: (2)

i read before from somewhere that they someone from asia with a d17a1 had a vtec swap from the honda city d15b which is true vtec. i duno how much work you have to do to make that work though ....

edit: nvm... its just a d17a2 with aggressive cams and bigger valve.

FGCOUPE

im not to familiar with ITB set ups but...
once this is mounted and runining in the honda, does this mean there
is no airfilter to save your engine?

dOh?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

^ a lot of race cars will run these- where the motors get rebuilt all the time. With our car's though that wouldnt make a lot of sence, but luckily there are small filters that you can attach to the end of the velocity stacks to filter the air and save your engine from rebuilds.

FGCOUPE

WooooooSh! another engine just puked! lawls!

its a sweet concept but...ill be sticking clear of a ITB imho.

susuking

iTrader: (2)

they do sell itb filters... the best is from pipercross.

AGuyWithACivic

This is a really cool thread! I was actually thinking about some N/A ideas (head swap, P&P, cams...not as radical as increasing displacement though ^_^ and then I found this. I'm keeping an eye on this.

I can't wait to see your ITB too

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

thanks triz

djmota

iTrader: (34)

I noticed a few details that should be adressed. The fact that you don't want to use crower ultralight rods,(because you dont want to rev that high) but you want to get your oil pump modded for high revs are contradictory. Save your money on the oil pump mod and get the rods. our longer stroke d17's are not going to be 9-9.5k revving engines. With a stage 2 cam/built engine you will see peak hp at around 8200-8500rpms. Rods IMO are a must for safety and reliability, dont cheap out on that part. The stock oil pump i think will be fine up to 8500 rpm. But you could check out what stock d16 pumps are capable of of on d series.org. There are lots of tuners that know kpro very well and very few that know ems well, for that reason i would say kpro is the way to go. Not to mention you can use my tune to get you close to what you will need. I think homemade itbs from a gsxr 1000 would be fine for a d17. and cheaper. check out some of the diys on honda tech.

AGuyWithACivic

To civic-driver, have you considered using the Civic GX pistons? They do 12.5:1 compression (0_0) cause they're made for natural gas. Poking around Wikipedia, the dimensions seem to be the same.

I dunno...food for thought

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

first the gx pistons where addressed once and with the larger bore i plan on will not work.

second i have been coming to the same conclusion with the rods and they have been becoming very necessary. im hoping the rumors of another company making rods that will be in the $500 range is true and will be availible by the time this build is set into place. if they are that will most likely be my choice for new rods.

third I will look at the other d-series oil pumps and see what they can handle. Im thinking that with the modified oil pump less chance of oil being consumed and just generally less wear on valvetrain. but i will look into it more.

fourth i had been leaning towards k-pro so its good to hear that it will most likely be the better choice. now with the itb setup. i have been leanign towards honda based bikes for throttlebodies just so i can use the tps sensor without modifing as much, i was told honda uses the same on bikes and car for tps voltage range. arent the gsxr1000 tbs like 51-53 mm (not sure)? wouldnt that be to large? from what i have found that would be too big. most my info is based off of here: http://www.team-integra.net/sections...les.asp?Show=1
I have been looking at the Cbr600 because of a little smaller tb 40mm (what i remember of hand) which would be better suited for the generally lower output of our engine but will need to be based off of what it will be after it is built which i would have no clue as to what it would be. i will check out the DIYs on honda tech thanks man. +1

and for the record filters will be used on the ITB setup when i get that far. i might use some sort of a airbox on the end of the throttle bodies to keep sound output down and for MAP sensor placement for easier tuning. havent looked into it much but it is an idea

thanks for all the input guys keep it coming.

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

well that is a list of parts with links and emails of parts that can be used in a NA build and which most of i will be using. Hope you like guys.

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

And the total price will be?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

A few comments -

I really dont think that you need the return fuel system, that knocks off 650, and also the rsx injectors most likely wouldnt be needed unless your wanting to flood the cylinders- but its possible that you might need it.

Also, if you go with ITB's you wont need the intake manifiold of course.

Moving over to the research thread.

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

i wasnt saying i was going to use everything on the list.... it was more so if anyone wanted to go the NA direction they could pick and choose what they want. and the total cost i think came to 4000-5000.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Prediction statements :

"wow thats a lot"
"why dont you just go turbo or swap..."

Point is it costs money to do stuff, and the kinda stuff some ppl wanna do isnt cheap.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

I noticed you guys were talking about different things to do with the oiling for the engine I know that some of race teams tap and run oil lines to the valve cover so that it sprays over the valve springs and camshaft it is supposed to take a lot of stress off the valve train so the engine can sustain higher revs longer here's a link to a pic http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/f.../photo_04.html

I'm also going to be doing an NA build I have A crower stage two cam sitting in my bedroom right the moment and I'm thinking about picking up a spare block to mess with this spring

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Check these out, I was reading up on it and this is a really great header company- it'd be dope if they made one for the D17. They have one out for the D but wasnt able to find if it was just the D16 or what.

http://www.hytechexhaust.com/
http://www.hytechexhaust.com/honda/content_dseries.htm

Check out the power difference-
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t.../photo_13.html

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

well i guess i missed the header in my list i wrote up ... put down the wrong version... whoops ..... any way go here if you want a set: http://theoldone.com/components/head...ng_headers.htm
and it says that custom made ones start at $1375 and yes they are remarkable headers. production models start at $795 but there isnt one for the D17. it is possible you could get them straight from hytech but im not sure i havent contacted them

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

well bisimoto finally emailed me back saying that they will do a custom ground level 1.5 for the LX. they said it would take 7-10 days once they receive a core. They didnt say a different price so im guessing normal d-series prices apply. I have to get my exhaust in order before i can get it so we will see when that happens. just wanted to let you guys know that that was another option and the price is good too.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

you guys might have to bite the bullet and get RSX-S injectors I am on the edge of maxing out my stock injectors (I'm hitting 89+ duty cycle) with the stage 2 cam, and I have yet to get the car dyno tuned.

You might also look into shot peening for stronger rods. I know it helps create a greater surface tension and makes them less prone to failing.

And a set of d16 ARP rod bolts will drop right into the stock rods. cause the stock rod bolts are going to be the first thing to go when you are revving high and the arp rod bolts are only like $38 for a whole set

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Nice post. What else are your running motor-wise aside from stage 2 cam? Whats your air/fuel ratio at, and are you running a second 02 sensor?

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

I'm running a Hondata K-pro,
Crower stage 2 cam
Crower Valve springs and retainers
Simota CAI (it's more like a short ram)
Megan Cat back exhaust
Megan shorty race header
Megan resonator test pipe
AEM wide band Gauge
RSX-S injectors (as of tonight lol)
+ I have something special coming hopefully within a month but I can't say what it is right the moment, hehe

My air to fuel is around 14.8 but when I step on it it drops down to 12 something I am going to try to get it to the dyno in a week or two

I have both o2 sensor hooked up but it is in closed loop and the o2 heater code is turned off on the k-pro. And I have ARP rod bolts arriving in the mail from summit racing tomorrow. I want to install them before I take it to get tuned. Once It gets dynoed I will post the results and pics of everything I have done.

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

well i have been thinking about using the rdx injectors at a real low duty cycle but i havent really looked into the fuel pressure and junk on them so it just a thought. i have heard lots of good things about the atomization in those rdx injectors.
hopefully i will have started with the head when i get my taxes back. we will see what kinda money im looking at though otherwise will be this summer.
currently im still waiting to see if the carrillo rods are made in a NA version. if they ever come out that is. otherwise im probably going to bite the bullet and get the crower maxi-lites.
its good to know that the stock injectors will most likely getting maxed out though. also that the d16 arp rod bolts fit. i was trying to find one that fit.
thanks man

also can i guess i new intake manifold in the next month or so?

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

maybe, can't say

I am also trying to get some stuff from japan but that idea is not going through till at least spring/summer.lol.

RDX injectors seem a little big I know SkipBarber just got a set a couple weeks ago they have the exact same tip as the stockers. So I don't know how the atomization is going to be different.

Also wrapping the headers I have noticed drops the engine bay temps considerably.

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

i know they are 410cc's injectors but according to here : https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...cs-inside.html
they are some of the best stock injectors honda has made and that they can supposedly increase power just by using them over something else. also they are cheap in comparison to most injectors. so the real question is how do they do at a very light cycle.

I also have wrapped my header and i agree it definitely lowers the temps in the engine bay. unfortunately i dont even have my header on my right now because of money issues and a loud exhaust. that was the cheapest way to quiet the car down and stop getting tickets. hopefully tax season will bring some joy to my car.
bomerman19 definitely keep us updated on whatever it is you got coming.

rtr5o7

keep the awesome work going on the N/A build. I am new to posting on this forum but no where near new to the d17 and all the bickering over modding. boomerman were you always running kpro to start with the crower stage 2? and im guessing a wideband is a must for the stage 2? I do believe another user on here by the name of Ronaldo9 i think has experince with the crower camshafts and tuning. keep the updates coming, D17 N/A all the way

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

LOL! I actually got the camshaft off of ronaldo9 back in like September (he couldn't pass jersey emissions with it) and it has been sitting in my room up until x-mas. I stuck the k-pro in before the camshaft it was in there for a couple of months.

I would highly recommend a wideband even if your not running a stage 2 so you can monitor the afr because the k-pro just comes with base maps that will get you around town but you don't want to push it hard on those maps, if it does get too cold on the stock map it might start to lean out on the k-pro.

The base map for the stage 2 runs really rich though. I am actually throwing codes for fuel system too rich. and my maps are only tuned to 8000 right now wich is too low cause I think the cam makes power for another 600 rpm.

But Dyno Tune is scheduled for monday so will see what she can do

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

lets see what you get from the dyno keep us updated

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

I'd like to see the numbers as well!!!!