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So the fans run. Is the temp switch good?

Why would you think there's a fusebox problem if the fans run correctly when you jump the connector?

 
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I watched the mechanic hook up some alligator clips to the battery and the connector of the fan, it turned on. But something I dont quite remember what happened where the fan wouldn't work right. They said there was a disconnect between the fuse box and the fans and the fuse box may need to be replaced something isn't getting a good enough connection to turn on the fans when they are suppose to. The car overheats and no fans are on.

And then something if blocking flow from the hot engine coolant spitting out the top to the upper rad hose to be chilled by the radiator and its fans. Of course, it is clear that not it's not just the fans but a two or three part problem.

Not sure if they tested the temp switch. I thought the stat was a no moving parts type of device. I think I got a used temp switch a year ago.

 
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Technically speaking wouldn't the Devil's jizz be red? He is red, right?

 
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Let me ask you something and everyone here.

Do you think this is the whole "hustle" part of being a mechanic?
They set things up in such a way that it is never truly fixed, so they can have you at their will. They want to keep you on a short chain. And they do this by always having something or keeping something broken. That way they keep you constantly coming back to them spending more green. The business seems based on keeping things broken and never truly fixing anything. The more broken something is the more they can charge you. So mechanics are in the business, not of fixing, but keeping things broken or making more mechanical problems so in the near future you have to keep coming back to them. They want you to have more problems than before, so they either never truly fix your problems or create new ones. By figuring out ways to keep you with problems they can force you to keep spending your money. How true do you think this is?

 
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Some mechanics might operate that way. Some guys or gals are great mechanics but want to be paid properly for being so and for some people that's hard to swallow. Some will screw up and not admit to it. Some are honest to a fault and don't charge what they're worth. Like a lot of things in life..it's hit or miss.

Bringing my car to a mechanic to me is a last resort because I feel I should attempt the diagnosis and repair first. Thankfully, we have forums like this, members such as Ezone and others that has a wealth of knowledge, patience and willingness to help in our diagnosis and repairs.

I know if I screw up that I am to blame and will persist to hopefully get it right. If things go right it's a joyous feeling and I saved labor cost and possibly markup on parts prices. However, there are times that I wish that some of the frustration I have experienced working on cars could have been eased by bringing it to a mechanic.

 
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Yeah I'd like to think this garage is not taking me for a ride. But I keep thinking here about the cooling system. Maybe you or ezone could comment on this. It's very basic. But when coolant is tossed into the radiator it travels down and fills the lower radiator hose and is stopped short by the closed up stat. So coolant fills all the passage ways of the radiator and that lower rad hose. Then the ignition is turned turned on and combustion begins to generate lots of heat. The heat transfers into the coolant. Both the upper and lower rad have some coolant. The water pump circulates the coolant when it is hot to the upper radiator hose. Once the coolant gets to a certain temp the wax on the stat expands and opens up this allows the cold coolant that was in there to mix with the warm coolant in the engine. The water pump circulates all this. But how was coolant in the engine to begin with? Doesn't the engine have to be submerged in coolant? And when that coolant around the engine heats up then the stat opens up and allows cold coolant and hot coolant to mix and the water pump forces that mixed coolant to circulate your engine and be pressed out to the top radiator hose. Where it is then cooled down by cold air blowing on the radiator and the fans taking hear off the radiator and the rad fins transferring heat, is this right?

or is the top rad hose also filled with coolant as well when antifreeze is poured into the cooling system the upper rad hose is poured on top of the engine block area. So then if this is the way it works.
When the engine heats, then the stat opens up, now the coolant in the lower rad hose mixes with the coolant in the engine. The water pump circulates it from the lower rad to the engine to the top rad hose where it is put back into the radiator to be cooled down. Then the cycle repeats.
So the fan is not kicking on to cool off the coolant. And the lower rad hose is not even luke warm when the car begins to overheat. So possibly both the fan electricals and stat are broken. It sounds like the radiator is fine in that when I run without a stat it is fine just less fuel economy. But the fans are a huge problem.

 
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The video below can explain the coolant system operation much better than me. Ezone also can explain it better than me. In the video replace CTS part name with your egine's ECT.

"Doesn't the engine have to be submerged in coolant?"

The pistons while not submerged in coolant are cooled by the water jacket around them that coolant flows through.

 
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Thanks
It sounds like its both a problem with the fans and the stat. I was able to do the paper clip trick and short the wiring in order to keep the fans on with the CTS. Seems to work. And running without a stat caused it not to overheat.

So, possibly something wrong with the electricals connecting the fan and something wrong with the stat.

 
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A cracked block is what I am being told it is now. After I shell out 1200 they tell me they think it is a cracked block. They say they will give me half off the labor to check for the crack in the block $400. Milling if needed $120 and $300 for a new head. So I am looking at $820 in total. No one informed me that it could be a cracked block. Can't get a refund or anything because I authorized the work. I don't know what to do. I an thinking of just selling the damn thing at this point. Or running it without a stat and seeing how long it lasts.

 
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If that's truly the case I'm sorry to hear that. Before they starting tearing the engine down did they do a Leakdown Test? I'm not going to profess to know much about a cracked block but from what I understand they can be tricky to diagnose because sometimes a crack in the block or head can seal at operating temp and open up again when the engine cools off. A leakdown test while the engine is cold and at operating temp would have been helpful in your case as it probably would cause air bubbles in the coolant system rising to the radiator neck indicating a breeched head gasket, crack in head or crack in block. Unfortunatley, the only way to truly tell if it's one or the other would be to remove head and inspect.

Did they say where specifically the crack is? Have them show it to you and talk about options. One option is find a wrecked car with a running engine and pull the engine... Optimally, doing a leakdown, compression and other test before purchase.

 
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At this point I don't see the point. I am getting the car back and going to see if I can sell it. The car has been a nightmare from day one. I am done with it. I am getting it towed back. I hate this car. They gave me the figures and I can't afford it right now. It will be $800 to do the labor and that's just if it need milling. If it needs a new head that's going to be $1150 to $1250. Too much already. I am done.

 
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That's very different from the check I described.


Stat has moving parts. Another strike.


Certain people/shops might operate that way.

But also, sufficient ignorance is sometimes indistinguishable from malice.



I take a lot of pride in what I do, and do it to the best of my ability.


Sorry...at work, can't read the rest.

 
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Wasn't there a suggestion of just dropping another engine in it........?
Did I second that idea after hearing it has blue devil in it?

Also, I doubt anyone can really tell that until it's taken apart. Right now it's only a guess....probably because they can't believe a new head gasket could ever leak for some reason.....

Option: abandon it on the side of the road, set it on fire and walk away

 
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LOL I dont know this shop from a hole in the wall but my "outsiders perspective" says they're throwing darts. Can't figure out why it's overheating because they don't know these cars, just getting you to pay for every imaginable repair associated with overheating.

You have a forum here with members that know these cars better than 99% of mechanics you're going to find locally. They know all the proper diagnostic checks and how to fix parts yourself. Maybe you don't have time to deal with it and that's why it keeps ending up at that shop, but until you get it out of there and get a competent brain on it, I don't think you'll get it fixed. Not in a timely and cost-effective manner at least.

Hope that doesn't sound harsh. As mentioned above by The Dong, mechanics are a last resort for me. In my 10 years of driving cars (and working on them) I've literally trusted TWO mechanics to wrench on my stuff, on one occasion. One was a HIGHLY regarded european car mechanic for a Mercedes I owned and one is a certified Honda technician that more recently did a repair on my wife's 01 civic. Neither of them were flawless experiences. Both left me knowing I could have done a better job myself, for less money if my hands weren't tied.

 
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I have decided to fix the car myself now. I have a friend who has done cylinder heads before. I am planning on taking the car apart and posting pictures along the way I would appreciate any help from you and other members. I am truly starting to believe the old saying, "if you want something done right do it yourself". No one cares more for your car than you.

Judging from the looks of things I think it is a cracked block. What else could it possibly be at this point. Literally the entire cooling system has been checked. I have my friend coming over tomorrow to inspect things and we will begin prepping for taking off the cylinder head.

Let me ask you all. When I do this must I replace all the gaskets over again? All the ones the shop put in?


Am thinking of going with this cylinder head:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CIVIC-...dZF6Xr&vxp=mtr

Thank you

 
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Hey ezone, I am going to do the job myself now. Everything in this car has been tested. I am going to put in this cylinder head:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-CIVIC-...dZF6Xr&vxp=mtr

What do you think?
Thoughts on this ebay account and head. My car is a 03 civic ex 1.7L is there anything I should be careful and weary of when doing this job?

 
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Huh?

Why?
Drop in another engine? And a radiator?


Arson is a crime. Make it look like an accident.

 
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Literally everything has been tested in the cooling system. Water pump was replaced head gasket was replaced, had a new rad before the blue devil and it still overheated. Multiple stats put in and rad caps. It's got to be the cylinder head. Most messed up part is, there is no way to test for a cracked block. Professional shops couldn't find the problem apparently. They said the rad is fine, the fan is fine. Tomorrow since I have the car back now I am going to take the first steps to getting this car to work. After that I am going to get the cylinder and do the job myself. Going to buy any tools I need and read through tutorials on here and haynes. What do you think of that head on ebay? $300 fully tested, 1 year warranty.

 
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Ezone your funny.....

 
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On a side note... try ezones compressed air in the cylinder test.. that will give you an identicarion if is bad headgasket issue... truthfully I've seen you added the red devil. But these cars and cracked blocks are rare.. if it overheated that bad they should not had been able to machine the head as been warped too bad... least I'd think....

Cali dear three is the most common breach. You may have just had it done but again some guys rush things and crappy results happen.. I replaced mine and was very meticulous on everything and installed new head bolts.

As far as t stat replace with Honda. Make sure fans operate when up to temp.. also when ac is on fans should engage

 
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I have a friend that has a compressor, I think he does. Ill get him to do this ezone test. If it is a cracked block and all then I am planning on just buying a new one. But I am listening here to all your suggestions. The shop told me they checked for warpage. What is cali dear three?

Also right now I am running the fans on full with the paper clip shortage in the fan switch. It still overheats quickly. Ill drive for maybe 5 minutes and it will overheat.

Can I please have a link to the ezone compression test.

Please any suggestions aside from arson here. I want to test out what could truly be causing the overheating issue.

 
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What other tests would you suggest here given the symptoms.

How could I test for a cracked cylinder head or a cracked block. Maybe a crack in one of the cylinder chambers? What would cause it to heat up coolant that fast? That's the thing that gets me is the speed at which it cooks up the coolant.

 
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As far as the video try here.. https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...reference.html



Sorry that should have said cylinder three is common breach of headgasket.

First off... do the fans work when vehicle gets up to temp ?

Do they come on when ac is on?

Of course this was before you bypasssed with paper clip. This issue needs to be determined as if fans don't work properly you will just ruin another headgasket.


have you installed a honda thermostat yet? If not do so and while engine is running test the fans as noted.

Once you have done the test on video and the steps listed post results for additional advice

 
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Forgot to answer you cracked head question. When you send a head to machine shop is always wise to have it pressured tested. This is how you can identify is a crack not visible to the naked eye.

As far as heats up fast... is an all aluminum block. Right now my car can sit overnight I get in go down road a short distance and is up to temp. Doesn't take long. The main thing is to keep the temp regulated from overheating

 
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But cracked cylinder heads or cracked blocks are rare, maybe a cracked cylinder chamber? When the mechanic did the chemical test it came back with no hydrocarbons.

Even with the fans on full blast with the shortage. It still overheats quickly. new fan switch too. I wish I could test more but I don't know what to test. Mechanic says it is probably a crack in the head. What else could it be? They spent the day diagnosing it and that is what they told me.

 
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All I've read in your posts is a shopping list of parts replaced and guesswork. Little about testing. That includes the shop.
Oh yeah the blue devil. And fire.


You're ready to pay 300 for a head, more for another set of gaskets..........but if you shop right you can probably find complete used engines for about the same amount.

 
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Yes, but who knows how good the parts are on the used engine. I know the parts are new on this engine, everything as been replaced.

 
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Your shop is guessing at a cracked block, right?
Do you know what an engine block is?

 
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And now some intermission music: