CivicRider

Hi, 2001 Honda civic Lx . There was a strange noise coming from timing area and car refused to start. When I opened everything and checked, Tensioner came loose and belt was flapping around. I tried to straighten thread with number M12 (OEM was M 10) but it just stripped first half of hole. Frustrated I used JB Weld on it and let it cure for 36 hours. 10 miles of driving and it again came loose. Tensioner wont take a M12 stud in it but i plan to drill it.
How to make a thread at this hole. Its a pretty tight space with car body close by. any ideas ? I will post pictures soon.

pjb3

I would look at a Helicoil kit. You said you tried to fix the threads with a M12 tap, did you make sure to use a bottom tap?

mikey1

uuummm, a tensioner does not just "come loose" by itself, im a bit

sounds like you are going to have to replace the block, seeing as thats where the threads are, i wouldnt trust jb weld or heli coil on a bolt as important as that

good luck

CivicRider

@mikey there is a story to that but thats history. somebody in past overtightened that bolts years ago. after i bought this car and did a timing belt job and tensioner replacement 2 years ago, those internal threads were half stripped but still "catching" the bolt. So i left it that way but now continuous vibrations and force stripped it completely.

CivicRider

Now i plan to increase thread size to M12
weld an M12 and M10 stud together.
put on a tensioner and tighten it with M10 nut

what you guys think ?

pjb3

Sounds like a lot of work. My concern would be that the stud you make is straight so that the tensioner runs true. You could have a machine shop make the stud for you but that would be expensive.

Like I said, I would use a helicoil.

johndeerebones

Second the helicoil, but that machine shop work wouldn't be that bad either. BUT for something that could self destruct your engine I would trust the helicoil before any weldment... Not cutting down your machine shop, but helicoils are time tested.

scooty

One more vote for a helicoil. If done properly it will hold forever. Half my valve cover bolts are helicoiled and I have no issues what so ever. I've also helicoiled one of the water pump bolt holes that I managed to strip. That was 40,000 miles ago and still no problems.

Look into drilling a 3-4" access hole using a hole saw in the inner fender area to get a straight and true shot to the tensioner hole for the helicoil procedure.

You can always have the access hold welded back up later on, or just Jb weld it back up.

CivicRider

Thanks for all input !
I used m10 x 1.50 helicoil (original was m10 x 1.25)
and wrapped silk thread around bolt which made it really tight. It went in tight and holding it good so far. I am hopeful that it would hold for 20-30 thousand more miles. Car is at 175000 now.
Thanks again.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Good move on the helicoil, could have used a timesert as well.

Much better then welding stuff together as you previously mentioned in my opinion.

scooty

Good Job! Out of curiosity, how did you gain access to helicoil it?

CivicRider

I elevated engine, took off PS pump, alternator and left engine mount system. I also took off CKP sensor, crankshaft pulley.

supershinobi

Hello everyone. I am in the same boat. Stripped the tensioner bolt thread. I am trying to access the hole but I can't drop the engine because the alternator pulley hits the body. I can only lift the engine it seems.

How do you raise the engine? So far I removed the driver side, passenger side, and front mounts. Do I need to take off the rear mounts too?

I have about a foot to raise up so I can get a straight shot drill to helicoil the damaged thread.

Thanks for your help.

ezone

The post before yours has the answers you seek?

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/p...24-post12.html

supershinobi

I tried lifting the engine with just the left engine mount but doesn't raise enough. So I removed the front, and two side mounts. I just want to be sure the rear mount doesn't have to be removed. It seems to have some give but I wanted to be sure it will move up about a foot without me doing some damage. Thanks!

supershinobi

Ok, I don't think lifting the engine will work. Rented an engine hoist but too much work to lift for enough clearance to drill at the tensioner bolt hole.

I had an idea to drop the engine but the AC compressor Pulley was hitting the frame.

Can anyone tell me how to remove the AC Compressor Pulley? Would that be the best way to lower the engine about 5-6 inches down from where the compressor pulley was hitting it?

I'm about to fall in to despair.

ezone

Secret weapon:



Right angle drill?

supershinobi

Thanks for the reply.

I looked at the right angle tool but the drill bit itself for the helicoil is about 5 inches. With the drill attached to the driver there isn't enough room to fit it. the ABS sensor creates alot of problems as well. From the hole to the subframe is only about 5 inches room.

What do I do?

ezone

Oh............

I guess if you are willing to do more work, take the ABS pump out of the way? But there will be a lot of brake bleeding to be done if you go that route.

I suppose it's either that, or get the engine to come up some more.
You'd have to drop the subframe to let the engine hang out the bottom, and IDK if it would really gain you much room that way.


Boy, I'm glad I have not had to actually deal with this problem myself.

supershinobi

Ok, tell me what you guys think of this. How about I remove the front cross member?

If the AC compressor wasn't hitting against the cross member, I only need to drop it about 6 inches to get at the hole. When I dropped the engine until it hit the AC compressor pulley on the crossmember, the hole was pretty close.

Is that feasible? Thanks guys.

supershinobi

Did some more work and I think the cross member is overkill. I think I just need to remove the AC Compressor, because the compressor pulley is hitting the crossmember, preventing it from dropping further. Any thoughts on this route?

Would freon leak if I did this? I just need to unmount it, I think...

ezone

As I said, I have never dealt with this task, so I can only guess from here.

If you want to go that route, then sure you unbolt the compressor (EDIT: And unbolt pipe from the small bracket behind the PS pump, and move hose out of the anchor on top of the engine), and move compressor as far as the hoses will let it move.

EDIT: Unplug the wires too, durr.

(Leave both pipes connected to the compressor!)

Don't bend the pipes if you can possibly avoid it.

You might need to remove the PS and ALT to make room for the engine to drop without catching or damaging the compressor.

pjb3

What about getting the same size drill bit in a shorter length or cutting a bit to the minimum length you need.

Mr.H

Despair no more. I have the answer that you seek...:grin:

The car- 2004 Honda Civic LX 4 door

I had my timing belt/water pump done at a Honda dealership 22 months ago. I have nothing good to say about the mechanic that worked on my car. He overtightened the tensioner bolt, stripping it out.

About 3 weeks ago, the car went limp in the Publix parking lot, oil was spewing out all over the bottom of the engine.

I opened her up to find that the tensioner spring was all crushed up, loose near the crankshaft. The spring actually ate through the mounting hole on the tensioner itself-- Shocking how strong the OEM spring was. I'm guessing from the vibration caused by loose timing tensioner bolt that was stripped by the idiot Honda dealer mechanic. :hothead:

The timing belt was shredded & the engine was covered in oil (driver's side).

The crankshaft seal on the oil pump was cut (presumably by the loose spring). It came out in two circular pieces.

I put on a new cheap auto zone timing belt to check the compression. I feared that the valves were bent or worse. The compression came in 175-178psi. The engine was salvageable.

The big problem:

I was agonizing about how to go about repairing the stripped timing tensioner hole. I searched and searched for a easy solution. However, I found that there were 2 ways to go about it. 1) to lift or lower the engine to gain access to the hole by a drill, 2) drill a 3 to 4 inch through the left inner fender to gain access.

Lifting the engine meant I had to disconnect a lot of things. I was more worried about wires and hoses that may get ripped apart while attempting to do so. Lowering it seemed to be feasible, but the AC compressor had to be taken out. The lines had to be disconnected to gain access to mounting holes.

Drilling a hole through the inner fender was out of the question. It is a support area (rectangular box shape). I didn't want to compromise the structure.

I was looking at a Youtube video and a guy was drilling out the same hole on an engine that was out of the car--BY HAND. Because his small drill didn't accept the Time-sert drill bit. You may say, yeah, but the engine was out, and he had plenty of space. And he had plenty of leverage because he can put his weight behind the drill bit and tap wrench.

BUT, THIS CAN BE DONE WITH THE ENGINE STILL IN THE CAR!!!

You do not need to lower or lift the engine even an inch to gain access.

This is how I did it:

Tool you need:
1) Time-sert metric kit M10x1.25 part#1012 ($80 at Amazon)
2) small craftsman tap wrench (~$10?)

Remove everything to do a timing belt change, including the water pump (gets in the way of tap wrench)

Follow directions for Time-sert repair kit, but do everything by hand. Go slowly and carefully. It took me 5 min to drill out by hand. probably 20 min tops to complete the repair.

We don't need space for a drill. Repeat, we don't need the space for a drill! You have at least 2" of space left with the drill bit and tap wrench.

I think the idea that we need to gain access with a drill is making this more complicated. Get that out of your head. The block is aluminum and the hole is already there (you're not drilling a fresh hole) you're just making the hole slightly larger.

I was very surprised at how easily the drill bit cut a new hole into the block.

I reassembled everything using all new OEM HONDA parts. Runs like butter now.

I hope this post will help many in despair and agonizing about how to repair the stripped timing belt tensioner hole.

mikey1

this has never happened to me, but im just curious

if you make the hole larger, wouldnt you require a larger bolt?

and how would you fit a larger bolt through the tensioner?

ezone

HeliCoil/Time-Sert thread insert. Same bolt as original.

Mr.H

The insert from Time-sert kit fits in the larger hole. The outer threads of the insert matches the new larger hole. The inner thread of the insert matches the factory bolt pattern. You are using the same factory bolt.

I forgot to mention the bolt took full 33LB fT of torque.

CivicRider

Just noticed that a lot of activity happened under my thread while I was not following. I did this by hand and it was very easy. Stuff is still holding tight even after a year and 12K miles.
thanks for all the help

nsrhonda89

Did you install the new updated tensioner bolt?

2001 – 2003 model years may require a longer fastening bolt!
Please be advised that early model year Civics may require an
updated tensioner bolt. Honda upgraded the timing belt tensioner
assembly in late 2002.

https://www.techconnectcanada.com/do...20Bulletin.pdf

camphonda

Is the longer bolt required if you do the timesert fix from post #24? I went to the Honda dealer and he told me there was no updated longer bolt for my car (2003 civic LX).