whirlybird9

A couple years back, I was due for a timing belt change on my 03 civic sport. I followed the DIY, and a day later I had saved a pile of cash and had a new timing belt, water pump, and tensioner installed. Yesterday, two years and 50,000 km after the new belt install, I was surprised by a strange noise coming from underneath the timing belt cover. Sure enough, the tensioner had failed, and the spring was chewing up my timing belt! Close call, but the belt was still in one piece and no permanent damage seems to have happened. And the best part was I got to practice another timing belt change!

I was shocked at the way the tensioner failed... I expected to find a broken spring, but instead the spring was fine, and had worn through the loop on the tensioner!! See attached pic!

MindBomber

Wow, scary, that's a seriously close call.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Nice find, glad you saved your engine!

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

Good call, you earned yourself a couple beers.

Could you perhaps try to explain what this sounded like. To give us other owners a better idea in case it happens to one us?

I know its hard through hypertext lol. If you can't I understand.

badbadmojo

Hey did u get a knocking sound coming from the engine? Sound like a loose bolt when the engine holds revs? Trying to diagnose a engine problem right now and faulty tensioner is one of the possibilities.

whirlybird9

Sorry I did not reply to these sooner!

The sounds I heard when the tensioner failed came from 2 things... First, the spring was loose, and was bouncing around causing a racket. Second, there was the sound of the loose belt flopping around.

Since the spring breaking was a sudden event, it was immediately noticeable that something was wrong. From the inside of the car, it sounded like gurgling, or quite popping, and the first thing I did was check the fluid levels. Eventually, the spring got wedged in between the belt and the cover, and produced a constant rubbing noise. From the engine side, it was easy to point out that the noise was originating from the timing belt side. The noise from the loose spring will be variable, or even non-existent, depending on where your spring ends up.

What led us to the proper diagnosis was the sound of the belt flopping around. At an idle, the engine sounded rough, with the occasional knocking noise, but when you reved the engine up and down, it makes the belt flop around, sounding like a loose/floppy belt. When held at a higher rpm, there definately was a more frequent knocking sound, but i'm not sure what the belt was hitting against (i could never pick it up with my wrench stethoscope). It wasn't a consistent knocking, just every so often there would be a knock.

So the key to diagnosing was to rev the engine up and down, and listen for what sounds like a flappign belt, coming from under the timing belt cover. It took about 15 minutes worth of work to get the car apart far enough to confirm our diagnosis. I just removed the power steering pump, the 3 upper timing belt cover screws, loosened the valve cover enough to lift the right side by a bit, and work the top timing belt top cover off. It took a bit of work, but once the top cover popped of, it was obvious that the belt was extremely loose and being chewed away.

whirlybird9

One more thing...I have a guess as to why the tensioner failed. On the new tensioner, I pulled the grenade pin, and the rotation in the tensioner is VERY stiff. This means that a small vibration or change in tension would have had little or no effect on the tensioner, because it is so stiff, and not subject to those small vibrations.

On the broken tensioner, the rotation is VERY loose! This means than any small vibrations, or every acceleration, would have allowed the tensioner to rotate, putting stress on the spring. The spring and tensioner had enough friction to head things up ( the constant stretching and loosening of the spring), and eventually wear right through the metal.

That is just my guess...But I would suggest pulling the grenade pin on a new tensioner to check that it is stiff, and then replace the grenade pin, prior to installation.

7genmarathon

iTrader: (1)

So in summary of all you said (very detailed BTW) it sounds like a noticeable issue that can be distinguished with the hood up (ie: belt flapping according to rpm, spring bouncing around)

Sounds like its not an SBD (silent but deadly).

Glad you responded, I had my belt replaced by a shop and they didn't inspect my crankshaft seal which is currently leaking. Needless to say I lost some confidence with them and keeping one eye on the road and the other on the belt system/s.

ericcross

Yes, I had the exact same thing happen on my 2002 1.7L Vtec Civic EX. The spring broke off and rattled around with the timing belt. When I took it all apart, the tentioner bracket that holds the spring was damaged, just like in the picture from the previous post. The sound was loud, but I thought it was the water pump bearings went out real bad.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

This is a direct and definite result of an aftermarket tensioner that is not designed properly.

Casey Shovey

What kind of tensioner was this? And i would think theres gotta be another brand that is oem or exceeds there quaility

ezone

This is why we keep telling people to buy the tensioner from HONDA.

If you want OE quality, you buy OE.

Casey Shovey

Yea im gonna get oem tensioner cheapest i found was 65 just for tensioner,do you know of anywhere cheaper

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

With just getting one... or a few parts, talk to the dealer about a price lower then msrp.

Cheaper then Toyota parts, any day.

ezone

Where did you find that price?

For an 01-03 that's hella good price if it's really a dealer part.
That's as good as my employee discount at my dealer.
Majestic wants almost 70 for it.

If you have an 04-05 that price is way too cheap to be a dealer part.

Casey Shovey

http://www.hondavillageparts.com/oe-honda/04145plc315?origin=pla&gclid=CjwKEAjw86e4BRCnzuWGl pjLoUcSJACaHG55zVu7zRRoMWPCSlvtId2AC_8rPFaFytIkw4j MF99QcBoC42_w_wcB

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Majestic sent me a 14520-PLC-335, ($118.07 suggested / $83.83 selling) 6 years ago not sure what the 335 & 315 difference would be. And, mine was called "tensioner set"

Casey Shovey

Its just the tensioner does not include bolt or spring, i made sure it was compatible with my 02 civic

ezone

Looks like just a part number supercession.

The dealer sourced part (kit) will always include the spring.
SOME tensioner pulley kits will include a slightly longer bolt.
Pay strict attention to torque specs when you install, many people have stripped the threads out of the block.

Casey Shovey

Well this one doesnt not that i seen anway, and yea what is the purpose of the longer bolt ? I also cross refrenced the tensioner number and it came up with a tensioner from napa do you knowits an oem one or napas brand ? And do you know if its any good if a napa brand?

ezone

If you look up the part from a source that uses better catalog images, you can see it how it (item #14) will include the spring:


More thread contact, for the reason I stated in my previous reply.


While I'm sure it generates some amount of profit for them, that in no way implies it is an OE quality part.....just like you can cross reference O2 sensors and spark plugs from NGK/NTK/DENSO to Botch or any other brand, that doesn't make the Botch or any other brand parts any less crappy when installed the car.

EDIT:
If you can verify the manufacturer of the aftermarket tensioner is the OEM for Honda, if you can be absolutely certain it is not a counterfeit of that name brand, then it might be worthwhile.
Squabbling over saving a few bucks when the life of the engine is at stake really isn't worth my time or energy though. I know how long I expect the Honda dealer sourced tensioner to last, and that's what I want.

dsm482

i dont know, the aftermarket is worse crap than some think sometimes.. not always..
I can tell you 100 percent so far how much the oem can last ...
i got the original still on the car , and still going good.

same with the water pump.. thats 275 kmiles speaking of OEM quality.. I bet no aftermarket will last that long.

I do periodically check it.. there is the proof for you... offcourse i replaced the belt..
OEM belt 160,000 miles it showed cracks... aftermarket duralast 90k, you can see cracks internally..

I dont recomend to do what I did.. expecially if you pay someone...
i monitor close, and fix my own stuff..

Casey Shovey

Wow that is impressive man, so you did timing belt and left everything else alone? Well if there is no problem why not even touch it lol i already got the aisin water pump and mitsuboshi belt but from what i been reading iam gonna go oem on the tensioner , since that seems to be what fails

Casey Shovey

Your absolutely right ill just get the oem tensioner then thank you!

ezone

I haven't seen a factory tensioner let go until after 200,000 miles. A few others here have reported earlier failures though, and I usually recommend replacement to my customers with the timing belt service but many balk because of the price.

I will always strongly recommend to replace the tensioner and spring if I expect the engine is going to go past 200,000 miles before the next timing belt service.

dsm482

oh i forgot , whatever you do , put loctite on cam bolt.. i torqued mine, checked torque wrench was correct.. bolt came loose after 2 years .. bent 12 valves on my car.. its just from vibration over period of time came undone... I torqued it to spec for sure...

JUst FYI incase you have someone do your t-belt.. and cam seal.. loctite on cam gear bolt.. trust me .. I proven that too... look for the thread below..

Casey Shovey

Yea my honda has 135k on it original timing belt and i know it will go to 200k even past , i think im gonna order the tensioner this week so i can do timing this weekend

Casey Shovey

I was already contimplating that lol ty for your info and help

dsm482

yes i left everything else on it.. its on today.. tensioner is still holding 275k miles and so is the water pump... i checked more often.. when i did the valves i looked at the tensioner its has good tension.. i put a new timing belt , since i had warranty on it from duralast, tension is still good on it, and so is the spring.. water pump has no leak and no play..

I will wait till i see issues before i replace them..

yeah i know it goes against everyone recommendations.. but i can afford this since i maintain it, and i checked.... like i did my valves now, i adjusted the lash on them towards the lower minimum.. after few months this summer when the new parts settle in i will recheck lash.. at the same time i will look at tensioner an pump again..

i own the car since 3000 miles..

so its prove, if i replaced them with aftermarket at 100k as everyone says, probably i would have been changining them by now again..

dont get me wrong there is expensive aftermarket parts that outlast OEM sometimes.. but those are not what ussualy people buy)/..

I got f----ed by the cam bolt.. that pissed me off because i torqued it.. and just rechecked my torque wrench the other day its still good. the same one i used then.. i proven that too.. i dont know why, but i saw somwhere else it happen to other people too.. they must torque them at the factory more than the spec in the book.. who knows..

I got loctite now on it..

if u use loctite, next time if u ever have to take it off, you have to heat it first.. then it will come off easy...
otherwise you risk a chance stripping it.. just remember that expecially if u use red loctite the stronger version.. thats what i used..

Casey Shovey

Damn thats awsome man maybe illvreuse my tensioner to ill check it out!and i do my own work also lol. Also might do my valve lash as well ... so the duralast belts are good huh? I heard the mitsobushi belts are oem i heard they are good , dont know though! Do you know of any after market tensioners that are as good as oem or better