Yet another reason why STi > EVO VIII
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Yet another reason why STi > EVO VIII
http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...b=5&o=&fpart=1
Cliff's Notes:
Quote:
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You might want to talk to your spies The EVOs didn't make anything close to the 220 wheel hp you guessed. That's more like what we saw with the pinging EVO VII import we dyno'd a few months back.
The three US EVO VIIIs we've tested (under nearly identical conditions) put down right around 180 wheel hp. That's only ~20 more wheel hp than a stock WRX. Hence my concern about the 271hp rating. Thes dyno figures would suggest closer to 255hp, IMHO.
A few interesting findings:
Peak hp occurs around 5500rpm, not the claimed 6500rpm. Peak torque is right around 4000rpm.
One of the three cars we tested ran 2psi less boost (17 tapering to 15 vs. 19 tapering to 17) than the others. It had a one month earlier build date (1/03 vs. 2/03), FWIW. It ended up making the same power as the other two higher boosting EVOs but with slightly less torque in the low end and midrange.
Our EVO VIII, for some reason, only has a 1bar MAP sensor. Strange seeing it in a turbo car that runs 19psi of boost. I would expect nothing less than a 3bar unit for the car. With the 1 bar MAP sensor, it maxs out (reads a full 5v) at 0psi of boost. Bizarre and pretty useless, as far as I can see. While I didn't check the other cars we tested, I suspect they are similarly equipped.
The car is especially knock prone at certain engine speeds. At least it is on the lovely 91 octane gas we run in CA.
The car runs a frequency-based MAF sensor. Not the usual 0-5v types seen on most other cars.
The car is under-advanced above 5500rpm. Adding just 1-2 degrees of timing at high rpm bumped hp by over 10 wheel hp without any detectible knock.
The EVO VIII's factory ECU is a bit more sophisticated that the older EVOs which had no type of active knock correction or smart ignition learning capabilities. Even the processor on the board is bigger These new ECU smarts will present more complications on the tuning end. But that's what we do so we consider it a challenge.
The EVO, like the WRX, is suseptible to MAF misreadings through intake modifications. We measured some pretty wild MAF errors when trying out different intake configurations.
There's a lot more info we've dug up during our tune-a-thon. Some of it we'd like to keep to ourselves for now and some we'll elaborate on on our website (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer.htm). There's nothing there right now but a pretty picture. Give us a couple of days and it'll start filling out. It's past midnight and we just came back from our first test drive of our mildly tuned EVO Lots more info to come....
Cheers,
Shiv
www.vishnutuning.com
PS. As mentioned earlier, all testing on all EVOs were done on 91 octane gas. I did test our car with slightly higher octane (by mixing in a couple of gallons of 100 octane) and found significant gains (6-9 more wheel hp). But still shy, IMHO, of the factory's claim. I think the car's short gearing, great turbo response, and strong midrange torque make it feel quite a bit more powerful than it really is. Still an awesome car. And it's bound to get only better as we get a handle on how to make more power safely.
PSS. Also, keep in mind that these numbers are from our Dyno Dynamics dyno which, while arguably more accurate, reads more conservatively (lower) than Dynopacks and Dynojets. While it's the best dyno for tuning, it's not the best "big number generator" that some people like
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff's Notes:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You might want to talk to your spies The EVOs didn't make anything close to the 220 wheel hp you guessed. That's more like what we saw with the pinging EVO VII import we dyno'd a few months back.
The three US EVO VIIIs we've tested (under nearly identical conditions) put down right around 180 wheel hp. That's only ~20 more wheel hp than a stock WRX. Hence my concern about the 271hp rating. Thes dyno figures would suggest closer to 255hp, IMHO.
A few interesting findings:
Peak hp occurs around 5500rpm, not the claimed 6500rpm. Peak torque is right around 4000rpm.
One of the three cars we tested ran 2psi less boost (17 tapering to 15 vs. 19 tapering to 17) than the others. It had a one month earlier build date (1/03 vs. 2/03), FWIW. It ended up making the same power as the other two higher boosting EVOs but with slightly less torque in the low end and midrange.
Our EVO VIII, for some reason, only has a 1bar MAP sensor. Strange seeing it in a turbo car that runs 19psi of boost. I would expect nothing less than a 3bar unit for the car. With the 1 bar MAP sensor, it maxs out (reads a full 5v) at 0psi of boost. Bizarre and pretty useless, as far as I can see. While I didn't check the other cars we tested, I suspect they are similarly equipped.
The car is especially knock prone at certain engine speeds. At least it is on the lovely 91 octane gas we run in CA.
The car runs a frequency-based MAF sensor. Not the usual 0-5v types seen on most other cars.
The car is under-advanced above 5500rpm. Adding just 1-2 degrees of timing at high rpm bumped hp by over 10 wheel hp without any detectible knock.
The EVO VIII's factory ECU is a bit more sophisticated that the older EVOs which had no type of active knock correction or smart ignition learning capabilities. Even the processor on the board is bigger These new ECU smarts will present more complications on the tuning end. But that's what we do so we consider it a challenge.
The EVO, like the WRX, is suseptible to MAF misreadings through intake modifications. We measured some pretty wild MAF errors when trying out different intake configurations.
There's a lot more info we've dug up during our tune-a-thon. Some of it we'd like to keep to ourselves for now and some we'll elaborate on on our website (http://www.vishnutuning.com/lancer.htm). There's nothing there right now but a pretty picture. Give us a couple of days and it'll start filling out. It's past midnight and we just came back from our first test drive of our mildly tuned EVO Lots more info to come....
Cheers,
Shiv
www.vishnutuning.com
PS. As mentioned earlier, all testing on all EVOs were done on 91 octane gas. I did test our car with slightly higher octane (by mixing in a couple of gallons of 100 octane) and found significant gains (6-9 more wheel hp). But still shy, IMHO, of the factory's claim. I think the car's short gearing, great turbo response, and strong midrange torque make it feel quite a bit more powerful than it really is. Still an awesome car. And it's bound to get only better as we get a handle on how to make more power safely.
PSS. Also, keep in mind that these numbers are from our Dyno Dynamics dyno which, while arguably more accurate, reads more conservatively (lower) than Dynopacks and Dynojets. While it's the best dyno for tuning, it's not the best "big number generator" that some people like
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rep Power: 0 he did it @ the same time damn it! Thats what I get for checking my PMs before hitting "reply".
Edit: you really DID steal it this time j00 bastard S2000! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]
Edit: you really DID steal it this time j00 bastard S2000! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: HondaGuru
he did it @ the same time damn it! Thats what I get for checking my PMs before hitting "reply".
Edit: you really DID steal it this time j00 bastard S2000! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: HondaGuru
he did it @ the same time damn it! Thats what I get for checking my PMs before hitting "reply".
Edit: you really DID steal it this time j00 bastard S2000! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG][hr]
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this isn't as bad as that damn PW beating me by 1 sec on calling repost on that crystal ball thing [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]
Quote
[hr]Actually, joe's post was pretty damn informative. [hr]
[hr]Actually, joe's post was pretty damn informative. [hr]
this isn't as bad as that damn PW beating me by 1 sec on calling repost on that crystal ball thing [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]
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Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.
Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.
El Pinche Turbo Mexicano
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: MadWheel
quote:
Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: MadWheel
quote:
Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.[hr]
Thats cuz they can't say it's slower than their modded WRX's, since they paid so much for that damned car....
I'll stick to dreaming with my Cupra R
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: MadWheel
quote:
Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: MadWheel
quote:
Originally posted by AMS
Just got off the dyno with an EVO VIII. Car made 258whp and 270lb/ft of torque, full boost comes on incredibly quick. Peak boost is around
20psi and drop to 16psi very quickly and stays there. Looks like Mitsubishi was a little conservative on the HP figures they gave out. 12%
drivetrain loss comes out to about 290 crank HP. 'Playing around' with a few things and with the car still stock, no add-on parts or boost
controller we made 280whp and 287lb/ft of torque. From what we've learned today there are big gains still to be made with minor mods.
Dyno plots will be up tomorrow.
Martin
Guys please look more into things before we make fun of th Evo. A lot of people will be getting different dyno numbers because they all have different dynos. The guy that got 180whp on the evo also go 160whp on a wrx so tell me if that makes much sense. A 180WHP 3200lb car will not run a 13.8@101 with R&T's drivers. People who already bought them said they as fast as their modded wrxs. And this is with the Evo bone stock.[hr]
Yea, but it still looks like a pontiac and comes with altezza lights.
STi for mee, K thanks.
and.. SHEA.. right! and monkeys will fly out of my *** [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]
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Rep Power: 0 ah people like what they like. not everyone is going to agree. ill take an Evo VIII over an Sti but that doesnt mean i think the Sti is a push over. I would love to have either car but i love the Evo. Sti 
Evo. but thats just me
Evo. but thats just me 
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Rep Power: 0 Damn, that's crazy! The numbers that MadWheel posted sound a little more realistic. I read somewhere that the overseas version is rated at 280hp so that it can be sold as a street legal car. It actually has a little over 300hp. Now, since the one we get in the US is a watered-down version, 280 is a more believable number to me although it may be giving the Evo a bit more credit than it should. Either way, the evo is an AWD car with a considerable amount of power off the lot, and lots of potential. Like Shiv from vishnutuning.com said.....it will take a little while before people really start to tune the Evo due to the fact that it's new and things are a bit different from the previous Evos. (like the ECU) I'd love to have an Evo VII, but they start out at $31,000 here.........and that's just a tad bit too much for me. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG]
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