General Automotive Discussion General automotive discussion and chat. Honda, Toyota, Chevrolet, Ford. It doesn't matter, just talk about it here.

VERY interesting debate on Torque VS Horsepower.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 25, 2002
  #1  
JoeB16's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,299
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California, USA, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Sol System, Spiral arm of the Milkey Way Galaxy
Rep Power: 0
JoeB16 is an unknown quantity at this point
VERY interesting debate on Torque VS Horsepower.

Which is more important and why?
Reply
Old Oct 25, 2002
  #2  
Dave's Avatar
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 807
Likes: 0
From: Palmdale, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Dave is an unknown quantity at this point
Thats a lot of NOS bottles in your sig Joe. I got to hand it to the guy, he sure got me with that static, dynamic displacement, the guy is pretty good.
Reply
Old Oct 25, 2002
  #3  
WesDLuke's Avatar
Registered!!
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California, US
Rep Power: 0
WesDLuke is an unknown quantity at this point

I tried reading that and it made my head hurt


I don't know if he is right or not, but this I can understand:

Quote
[hr]What do you guys think of this example of trying to make this intuitive because
everyone seems to try to explain in mathematical terms, but simply seeing how
one equation is derived from another or how the units fit doesn't quite give
understanding to noobs like I was to this a few years ago.

You have two guys, dude X and dude Y. They both have the job of striking large
stakes into the ground.

Lets say that they both have to finish driving in the stakes by 1 min.

For every strike, X hits with 100 lbs of force, so that each strike results in
pushing the stake down 10 in.

For every strike, Y hits with 50 lbs of force, so that each strike results in
pushing the stake down 5 in.

So how will Y drive the stake into the ground by 1 min? Obviously, by
increasing the rate at which Y strikes. And if they both finished driving
the stake down at 1 min, then they both have accomplished the same total amount
of work in 1 min.

Relating this to engines, the force that X and Y uses in each strike would be
the torque of an engine (the force of each combustion really). The rate or
repeatedness of the strikes would be the rpm of an engine. How far the stake
gets pushed into the ground given a certain time period, in this case 1 min,
would be the horsepower.

Now, of course, if Y was limited to a certain amount of strikes less than X,
he wouldn't be able to drive it into the ground at 1 min.

And furthermore, lets say both X and Y must start of at a certain rate of
strikes and then steadily increase their strikes/second. X will start of
driving the stake into the ground faster and Y will because X has more force
per strike. But later on Y will catch up because he can *accumalate* the
distance his stake goes in by rapidly striking faster. (i.e. hp = accumlation
of torque in certain amount of time; conversely, tq = slope of power curve)

However, if Y couldn't exceed the X's rate of striking the stake by a
proportionate amount in 1 min. X would still have driven the stake down further [hr]


Reply
Old Oct 25, 2002
  #4  
DriveItHard's Avatar
Registered!!
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California, US
Rep Power: 0
DriveItHard is an unknown quantity at this point
Damn! Some people really know their stuff about cars. That was a good topic to read about. Good work Joe.

Late
Reply
Old Oct 25, 2002
  #5  
Dave's Avatar
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 807
Likes: 0
From: Palmdale, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Dave is an unknown quantity at this point
And in the case of automobiles, Y doesn't have to start out driving stakes slowly if he launches.
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2002
  #6  
Hawk's Avatar
You boost, I-VTEC
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,056
Likes: 1
Rep Power: 343
Hawk is a jewel in the roughHawk is a jewel in the roughHawk is a jewel in the rough
ahhh yee old domestic vs. import argument. i like that guys explanation that WesDLuke quoted.

BTW does anyone on that forum drive SI's?
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2002
  #7  
Dave's Avatar
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 807
Likes: 0
From: Palmdale, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Dave is an unknown quantity at this point
Man, reading that entire post is like a freakin' nightmare in physics. The guy is saying HP is crap becasue the S2000 can't tow a heavy payload, but manage to forget how fast it can accelerate down a track, an example where HP and no torque does not = crap. Gear ratios aside, different applications buddy.

As for the no replacement for displacement arguement, he again conveniently omits an important factor. Weight, or mass if my physics is correct. So does adding a nitrous bottle also simulate the weight of a larger engine that can produce the same amount of power?
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2002
  #8  
JohnnyLee's Avatar
7thgen guh chee
iTrader: (8)
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,668
Likes: 0
From: Highland,California, US
Rep Power: 0
JohnnyLee is an unknown quantity at this point
Very Interesting[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2002
  #9  
Nuts's Avatar
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
From: Tha Big Easy, Louisiana, US
Rep Power: 0
Nuts is an unknown quantity at this point
informatice and intellectual debate for once. [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

i see it as, one cannot function properly without another. so they're both eaqully important.
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2002
  #10  
mohawkboom's Avatar
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6,202
Likes: 1
From: Car Audioville, Quebec, Canada
Rep Power: 0
mohawkboom is an unknown quantity at this point
In most of the posts there alot of very uneducated guess type replies...Overall it worked out good...but it started with some geniune wanna-be know it alls..

Reply
Old Oct 27, 2002
  #11  
JoeB16's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,299
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California, USA, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Sol System, Spiral arm of the Milkey Way Galaxy
Rep Power: 0
JoeB16 is an unknown quantity at this point
The point is, it started out as some bait for a flame war. The troll got called on it the first few replies then the regulars hijacked the thread and turned it into something actually worthwhile by the end.

Like my signature there syas, im one of the last Si owners on the site. Hell, more then half the moderators own domestics and way more then half the members dont even own any type of honda. This diversity is what attracts some of the brightest automotive people around, some of the funniest and lamest trolls, and has dome of the best technical discussions ever. plus they will relentlesly flame you if you are being dumb. whis is always a plus.

yes, thats 1 of every size bottle NOS nitrous makes in my avatar there. from 5Oz bottles to the big 25lb bad boy.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Honda Civic Forum
Replies
Last Post
thatcham
Archive - Wanted Parts (WTB's)
0
Sep 30, 2015 08:28 AM
Cam Diaz
Parts and Products
2
Sep 29, 2015 07:17 PM
rovafa2002
8th & 9th Generation Civic 2006 - 2015
2
Sep 28, 2015 06:57 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 AM.