sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=cttLaWepdL0#!

watch it. they are much better designed than you think and run through rigorous tests.

i bring this up because i see so much "speculation" of how "good" an oil filter is by merely cutting it up and "LOOKING" at the filtering medium.

(just because it has more medium, doesnt mean it filters better)

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Thank you!!! Idk why people hate on FRAM all the time.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

^yup. many of the OEM honda filters are supplied by fram (honda has two vendors for their oil filters from what ezone told me)

also, i wanna point out that their tough guard (what was shown in the video) and their extended guard (highest quality filter they make) are great. most people who hate on them look at their lowest quality one (still not that bad, but more for economic purposes) look at their whole line and say its crap.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i need something that lasts at least a year without falling apart inside. if the fram can do that, i would sure use it. most oil filters are useless anyway, but the last thing you want is chunks of filter coming loose.

ezone

Glad you found that.
Mr. Buckley is the person I was talking about in that other post.

Stock 99

... you'd be stupid not to use a FRAM filter. lol

I don't know I don't really have any alliance to any specific brand of oil/filter. I'm quite happy to let the company that built/engineered my engine sell me a filter.

Although the lady at the counter offered to sell me 'Honda' motor oil in bulk (4l) last time I was there. I kind of recoiled at the thought of that.

don't ask me why.

ezone

"Bulk" oil comes in a tank truck.
You'd need a lot of your own jugs, unless they just pour it right into the interior of your car.


Conoco-Phillips has been supplying our oil for a few years now.

Stock 99

Sorry, but I don't have a clue who Conoco-Phillips is in the oil world. Would it be the same supplier in Canada? I currently use Mobil Super 2000 (synthetic blend) for high mileage engines. Would Honda oil be vastly better?

ezone

http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/
Kendall oil is one of their commonly seen brands.

ExxonMobil supplied the oil before CP.



No idea who supplies Hondas oil up there.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

[autostream]http://autostream.com/ibcivicforums/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1318& transactionid=1349235951-67180109214&posted_by=Kennykid2002_www.civicforums .com&youtube_video_id=floUZGP6NZM[/autostream]
Royal purple filters, nuff said

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

i love how he says "i think this... i think that..."

YOU THINK?! or you KNOW? "THINKING" that something is possibility something isnt good enough and doesnt show your professionalism. how better is this guy from anyone who can type a post on a forum?

that video was poorly conducted if he was a rep from RP. very poor marketing.

lowlife9

id rather not use oil filters constructed with flimsy cardboard on there filter media i guess thats just me though ???

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

FRAM filter = 99% efficiency
Royal purple = 99% efficiency

FRAM = $5-$6
Royal Purple = $12+

Both filter the oil just as good, one is just over engineered to accomplish the same rating.

ezone

You missed the parts about the particle sizes used for the tests. The filters aren't equal.









Royal Purple:
Made by Champion Labs.
Quote from the video: "designed to filter down to 25 microns with like over 90% filter capability".
(I actually went to the RP website and found this in their FAQ section:
99% efficiency at 25 or greater micron based on ISO 4548-12 multi-pass test methods.)

Sounds a bit less efficient than Frams' specs.

Wait up... Royal Purple is a SPONSOR of that V8TV or whatever it is. No wonder they did that skit.



Fram:
Made by...well...Fram.

Also uses test ISO 4548-12.

From the comments on the Fram video:
Fram TG is 99% efficiency tested to ISO 4548-12 tests using 10-20 micron particle size.
You would have to contact those filter companies for their info. We know how they test, cant publish the figures for legal reasons. The FRAM Ultra is also 99% efficienct. You have to make sure when looking at competitor info that they are testing to ISO standards using 10-20 micron sizes. Purolator uses ISO test and a 25 micron particle size-too big%uFEFF to harm your engine but lets them say they are 99%!.

Particle size is what filtration is all about. The smaller the particles are that the filter can trap, the better the filter is. Simple.
Fram wins.




The guys in the Fram video are real engineers. They actually do work at the company. You can tell they weren't picked for their charisma, charm, and good looks, to be on camera.

The guy in the RP video is also one ugly mug, but speaks well and appears to cater to the mentality of the average weekend warrior TV viewing audience.

For the geeks: Here's the paper on The Micron Rating for Media in Fluid Filters mentioned around 1:55 in the Fram video. http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/...ish/89-5R3.pdf

lowlife9

i prefer amsoil filters.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Good research ezone

Fram also has the cool grippy truck bed liner like stuff on them. I can always get it off.

PearlVic

Ive been using FRAMs since i bought my car. lol used k&n's on my toyota

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

I still use pulator pureone (yellow)

I'm planning to switch to their new synthetic filter tho. Don't think I really need it but I might have to give it a try.



/////edit

Ezone, well said about the filtration tests. I was going to mention the in a reply but you beat me to it.


The point of this article is to prove a point to all the fram haters that fram filters are actually a great product

dubtee1480

The first time I read that you may want to avoid Fram filters was in 2001, from this page:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...reference.html
And this letter written to the webmaster of the site:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/fram1.txt
Personally my father used Fram for years and had nothing but good things to say, at the time I owned a GM product and I just used the OEM AC Delco filters. On my other car I used a Mobil 1. While the above linked website has few good things to say about most of the Fram filters, he does like the Tough Guard.
.........
Based on what I've read about the inlet holes of the A01 and A02 Honda filters, I would gander that Fram is building the A02 to a Honda spec for Honda rather than Honda selecting an off the shelf Fram product and having it relabeled with a Honda logo. The inlet holes on the A02 don't match any Fram inlet patterns that I'm familiar with. I plan on ordering a few 6 packs of A01's from H&A when the time comes since my wife's Accord and the Civic both use it.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

that first link is EXACTLY what im referring to in the first post. some dude cuts open a bunch of filters and subjectively analysis the filters based on its looks....WITHOUT any kind of scientific tests to test the actual filtration properties.

just because one brand has "more" filter medium and more parts, doesnt mean it filters better.


and to the second link...you gotta take that "testimony" with a grain of salt. he/she could have been a disgruntled ex-employee or simply a straight up fram-hater.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

i tell you this because im the head engineer for Fram and i make these things with my bare hands while in the toilet... and fram is the shitz and best shitz ever!

you gotta believe me. im an engineer and im posting this online...which makes it official, truthful, and absolutely credible.


/sarcasm


btw, dubtee, im not directing any of this at you. just in general, so dont take it the wrong wayz. so take that flameproof suit off.

ezone

Found another filter maker


https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post4619313

dubtee1480

Agreed... it would be nice if a third party would take up real testing. I think a lot of the mentality is fed from a tactile point of view. This one has metal caps, this one is glued cardboard, the first one must be more durable. The second one is likely made to a price point and not marathon synthetic oil changes or performance applications. I imagine the amount of filter media matters a little but the quality of the media does also and there are so many other variables (valves, etc) that it's hard to be subjective and fair when analyzing only one aspect by looking at the media. RE the engineers letter... who's to say it's even an engineer or was ever employed by Fram. I can get on here and claim that I'm a archaeologist instead of an industrial controls and distribution salesman (my actual profession) and who's to prove or disprove me?

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

interesting. so honda has (to your knowledge) 3 supplies of the OEM filter?

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

What everyone's saying is true, but the only reason why I went with a RP filter, to go with my RP oil is that
I did wanted to test how well this brand really performed in a real world scenario.
I've watched dozens and dozens of videos on youtube taking apart random filters.
Most of which, including FRAM, does use a cardboard material as filter media, and shell.
As you could see from the video I posted, the RP uses all steel construction and full synthetic fiber material backed by a metal mesh, which increases the longevity of the filter.

Before running RP, I did plan to run my car for at least a 10,000 mile before cutting into the filter to see how well it held up.
At 11,000 miles currently, my oil is nearly as clean as when I put it in.

Before running the RP filter, I have been running OEM filters for the life of the vehicle, so it definitely was a step up.

He was actually not a RP rep, just some guy from a car youtube channel.

I agree completely
Based on the FRAM website
"The most commonly used filter media is cellulose, which is a natural material that presents a random and irregular field of fibers to the oil. By itself, it can only deliver about 80% dirt-trapping efficiency."
Basically paper. That is enough to steer me away.

I do agree, price point, RP is a very expensive filter, but the way it was designed, I think it's worth every penny.
I do plan to try other filters as well, perhaps the FRAM. (Probably K&N next most likely)

But after 11K miles, I can tell you the RP held up it's end of the bargain.

dubtee1480

Nah, nothing personal taken. I think the guy that started the site that I linked to (and I think is the earliest example I found and probably started the "lets cut a filter open" movement) got burned by a bad filter, noticed a trend in filter marketing that he didn't care for and attempted to start a dialogue by dragging it out into the open. I've used Fram a few time since then, the engine in my truck didn't fall out - still ticking along at 220,000 miles . If anything, it made me look harder at my purchasing decisions when I was younger instead of assuming that anyone selling parts had my best interests in mind.

ezone

I was looking at the 15400-PLM-A01 and A02 filter numbers, the A01 PREcedes to the 15400-RTA-003 number, and catalog said Mahle.


Wasn't really "to my knowledge" at all, I just ran across it a few minutes ago. Thought I'd toss it into the ring.
Like I said, it isn't a part number I have noticed in our parts dept recently. It's news to me.


EDIT:

Dangit. I'm not a parts person.
15400-RTA-003
15400-RBA-F01
Ran these to finally find the most recent super.
15400-PLM-A01

Sorry.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

dont lie kenny. you just like it because its purple. dont lie to us meow!



lier! we all know you're the president of that company and not the salesman!

hahah...

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

hey kenny, you should take a look into the new purelator synthetic filters. its basically a synthetic medium with all that fancy wire crap. rated at 10k miles as well.

and its about $12 bucks.


also, give the purlator pureone a try. it has a 99.9% filtration efficiency @ 20 microns.

plus, its yellow. and we all know yellow things are JDM and faster.

dubtee1480

That's at least worth 20HP at the wheels