Why Is Honda Civic's Reliability Going Down?
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, California, US
Rep Power: 0 
Why Is Honda Civic's Reliability Going Down?
I read on Consumer Reports 2002 Auto edition that Honda Civic has been rock solid reliable for the last 10 years or so, but starting 2001 and 2002, they say they won't be as reliable. They estimate the Mazda Protege to beat Honda Civic for year 2002. WHy is that?
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: orlando, Florida, US
Rep Power: 0 its the cheap crap they use in the new engines they should have just put k20's in out cars too but this new engines is crap no good pickup no real speed out of it whats 127hp out of an ex when most new cars are comming with at least 130 or 135 honda's gotta make a better engine thats all
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,155
Likes: 0
From: Victoria. BC
Rep Power: 0 "its the cheap crap they use in the new engines they should have just put k20's in out cars too but this new engines is crap no good pickup no real speed out of it whats 127hp out of an ex when most new cars are comming with at least 130 or 135 honda's gotta make a better engine thats all "
I'd have to disagree. if anything is solid about our cars, it's the engine. also, do you think your gonna notice a 3hp difference? lol. and our cars are still faster than most cars with 130-140hp... Our engines are still built in Japan, are they not? as are K20s. More HP would be nice, but that has nothing to do with our car's lacking reliability.
I'd have to disagree. if anything is solid about our cars, it's the engine. also, do you think your gonna notice a 3hp difference? lol. and our cars are still faster than most cars with 130-140hp... Our engines are still built in Japan, are they not? as are K20s. More HP would be nice, but that has nothing to do with our car's lacking reliability.
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
From: Woodbridge, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 0 a better engine?!?!? 
I think not!
the engine isnt whats causing the reliability problems.... Honda is the best engine manufacturer in the world, our engines will outlast any engine in the same class, the only other engine built as well is the yamaha/toyota powerplant. They are experiencing some quality control issues, thats whats causing these reliability problems.... The mazda protege better reliability.... I think not, Mazda is actually currently experiencing greater quality control issues, theres are almost as bad as subaru's.
RF Bwoy
I think not!
the engine isnt whats causing the reliability problems.... Honda is the best engine manufacturer in the world, our engines will outlast any engine in the same class, the only other engine built as well is the yamaha/toyota powerplant. They are experiencing some quality control issues, thats whats causing these reliability problems.... The mazda protege better reliability.... I think not, Mazda is actually currently experiencing greater quality control issues, theres are almost as bad as subaru's.
RF Bwoy
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
From: Tallahassee Florida, Florida, US
Rep Power: 0 true. the 2k2 will have less problems than the 2k1... that's how it always is when they redesign a car.
oh and now that they're built in ohio, you can't expect the quality to be as good as before
oh and now that they're built in ohio, you can't expect the quality to be as good as before
Registered!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
Likes: 1
From: boston, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 0 [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
Have you guys been on this planet?
My 01 civic was the least reliable POS I have ever owned...
(and that includes 4 GM's, a ford, a fiat, an audi, and a 94 Jeep GC (listed by CS as perhaps one of the worst vehicles ever), a 2000 nissan crew cab (best vehicle i have ever owned) a 01 civic and an 02 civic)
the civic was about a tie for the jeep when the jeep was 7 yrs old (the jeep beat honda hands down the first 5 years). the honda was in the shop EVERY WEEK for something or another....
the 02 is better sure, but far from great, it rattles, has trouble starting sometimes, and the gas guage is still FUBAR.. no top notch quality machine thats 4 sure.....
nissan and toyota are demolishing honda in terms of quality these days.....
I think CS was generous in giving the civic the black flag..... I'd have given it two or three
Have you guys been on this planet?
My 01 civic was the least reliable POS I have ever owned...
(and that includes 4 GM's, a ford, a fiat, an audi, and a 94 Jeep GC (listed by CS as perhaps one of the worst vehicles ever), a 2000 nissan crew cab (best vehicle i have ever owned) a 01 civic and an 02 civic)
the civic was about a tie for the jeep when the jeep was 7 yrs old (the jeep beat honda hands down the first 5 years). the honda was in the shop EVERY WEEK for something or another....
the 02 is better sure, but far from great, it rattles, has trouble starting sometimes, and the gas guage is still FUBAR.. no top notch quality machine thats 4 sure.....
nissan and toyota are demolishing honda in terms of quality these days.....
I think CS was generous in giving the civic the black flag..... I'd have given it two or three
Registered!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 632
Likes: 1
From: boston, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 0 OH, the technical reason for the loss in quality.....
that can proably be attributed to no longer producing the car under tight controls...
Honda probably got "comfortable" in it's "quality leadership" position and stopped throwing so much money at it...
Thats a serious no no when you are producing a new line of cars in fairly new international facilities.
It also apears that they are having some major troubles with their vendors QC that they need to straighten out yesterday.
that can proably be attributed to no longer producing the car under tight controls...
Honda probably got "comfortable" in it's "quality leadership" position and stopped throwing so much money at it...
Thats a serious no no when you are producing a new line of cars in fairly new international facilities.
It also apears that they are having some major troubles with their vendors QC that they need to straighten out yesterday.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, ON
Rep Power: 0 Not to mention that the Mazad Protege is in its 3rd or 4th year of production (for the current model). The Civic is all brand new last year.
Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. You don't get there without making superior products.
Honda is the largest engine manufacturer in the world. You don't get there without making superior products.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Indianapolis, Indiana, US
Rep Power: 0 It's still recommended by Consumer Reports, and they don't recommend a lot of the other cars that compete. I'm not a bit sorry that I bought mine, and I can't think of anything else that competed with it that I would have been as happy with, especially at the pump. Plus look at the safety ratings on the others compared to ours. Nope, not a regret here. I got my first big stone chip this week, btw. AAARGH! Damm dump trucks on the interstate. Touch up paint, quick!
Vor
Vor
Registered!!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
From: Markham, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 0 READ THE THREAD PEOPLE!! We're talking about overall reliability, not just how good a car's engine is. There are other components in a car besides the engine so just being able to build a good engine doesn't mean you'll have a reliable car. There are simply way too much bugs/quality issue with this car...even for a first year model. Why launch the car to the public when it's not ready? Honda has something call a test facility and if they really put the car into rigorous testing they should have discover a lot of the bugs before it reaches the market.
Regarding the other manufacturer I have to say Toyota is up there in terms of quality. Nissan is ok and you'll be surprise Mazda came a long way in QC in recent years.
Regarding the other manufacturer I have to say Toyota is up there in terms of quality. Nissan is ok and you'll be surprise Mazda came a long way in QC in recent years.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 
i really can't compare to any other cars in its class besides my sister's 1999 ford focus. I have had NO problems with my car besides some rattling and the whole gas cap thing. the 2k1 is a redesign and will have problems which they will fix for 2k2 and 2k3. Besides they stopped using the old B engines and have switched to the new D egines. The new RSX and SI will have it problems for the first year or so. I will gladly take the civic over all my other cars i owned.
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: san diego, California, US
Rep Power: 0 << Our engines are still built in Japan, are they not? as are K20s >>
The 2k1 civic was built 95% in Ohio and 5% in Japan the tranny was the only thing in my car that came from Japan. As far as the reliability is concerned Honda has gone to **** in that department. If they hadn't rushed to build the 2k1 they may have done a little better. Here in the states the Focus was killing the Civic on sales so they rushed it.
<< engine isnt whats causing the reliability problems.... Honda is the best engine manufacturer in the world, our engines will outlast any engine in the same class, the only other engine built as well is the yamaha/toyota powerplant >>
Well if Honda is the best engine manufacturer in the world then I sure *** hell don't want to own any cars. The engine in the 2k1 is what is causing a lot of the problems.
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: san diego, California, US
Rep Power: 0 << OH, the technical reason for the loss in quality.....
that can proably be attributed to no longer producing the car under tight controls...
Honda probably got "comfortable" in it's "quality leadership" position and stopped throwing so much money at it...
Thats a serious no no when you are producing a new line of cars in fairly new international facilities. >>
It's kinda funny I said that a while ago and I got flamed.
Way off topic:
mattskav : were you in the military?
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
From: San Jose, California, US
Rep Power: 0 << The Protege is what?? a Focus!!!!!!!!! Focus=quality.... I think not!!
Mike >>
Can't agree with that. Mazda is with Ford, but so is Volvo and many other companies. Do you call Volvo=Focus too? Mazda is still all made in Japan (at least the Proteges). I had a Honda sales rep say the same thing to me.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,165
Likes: 0
From: Duluth, MN
Rep Power: 395 From what I believe, most cars are built on an assembly line. Most cars are also put together by robots, and computer technical stuff. Those things are mechanical, just like a car, and there are bound to be some bugs. Not every car is perfect, unless youy buy a hand built Bently, and that probably isnt perfect either. My only problem with my car has been a bad seat track that caused the drivers seat to rock, and a little sunroof rattle. For the money, and what I test drove in the price range, I dont think I could have made a better decision.
Registered!!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
From: Markham, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 0 Acutally the Protege not= Focus. Just because Mazda and Ford has a joint venture doesn't mean they share every design and rebadge every car in the lineup and sell it as their own brand. Beside, every Protege to-date is built in Japan. The Focus is either from the States (4-dr and wagon) or Mexico (ZX3/ZX5).
And to answer aldini's question. Although the design is the same it does make a difference. Parts sourcing is one major factor...Civics that are build here have a lot of electronics/hardware from USA and Mexico, whereas Civics build in Japan sources the parts locally in Japan. And the sad fact is that parts from Japan are better than their USA/Mexico counterpart.
Also, this is true for all Japanese auto maker, the fact that NA has such a competitive market makes manufacturers to cut cost in every aspect. The NA plants are there to do that as most of the car built in North America stays in NA. The opposite is true for plants in Japan where they export to all other countries that are not as competitve by comparison. So more money can go into QC and higher quality parts. It's for the same reason why you can always buy the most no-frill model in Canada/USA.
The last reason...and some of you might not agree on this one...is the fact that Japanese people have a very high expectation for quality and standards. They feel ashame if they can't do something right. I used to work for Seiko/Epson and have been to the Japan office a couple times. The working attitude is completely different than what you see here.
And to answer aldini's question. Although the design is the same it does make a difference. Parts sourcing is one major factor...Civics that are build here have a lot of electronics/hardware from USA and Mexico, whereas Civics build in Japan sources the parts locally in Japan. And the sad fact is that parts from Japan are better than their USA/Mexico counterpart.
Also, this is true for all Japanese auto maker, the fact that NA has such a competitive market makes manufacturers to cut cost in every aspect. The NA plants are there to do that as most of the car built in North America stays in NA. The opposite is true for plants in Japan where they export to all other countries that are not as competitve by comparison. So more money can go into QC and higher quality parts. It's for the same reason why you can always buy the most no-frill model in Canada/USA.
The last reason...and some of you might not agree on this one...is the fact that Japanese people have a very high expectation for quality and standards. They feel ashame if they can't do something right. I used to work for Seiko/Epson and have been to the Japan office a couple times. The working attitude is completely different than what you see here.
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,130
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, California, US
Rep Power: 0 The Protege IS a very well-built car. I think I would've bought the Protege ES if I didn't get my Civic.
Not only is the top of the line ES slightly cheaper than the Civic EX, but it also comes with 4-wheel discs, fogs, and 16" rims, and spoiler... as well as more HP and torque. Only thing was that it came in 4-doors only, and it has mediocre gas mileage. I rode in a Protege, and there was not a single rattle, even going over bumpy roads. Suspension felt better too.
At the time I was shopping for a car though, I wanted a coupe and better fuel economy with the Civic. I don't have any regrets with my Civic, but if I had a choice now, I think would go for the Protege 5 (which wasn't available at the time).
Not only is the top of the line ES slightly cheaper than the Civic EX, but it also comes with 4-wheel discs, fogs, and 16" rims, and spoiler... as well as more HP and torque. Only thing was that it came in 4-doors only, and it has mediocre gas mileage. I rode in a Protege, and there was not a single rattle, even going over bumpy roads. Suspension felt better too.
At the time I was shopping for a car though, I wanted a coupe and better fuel economy with the Civic. I don't have any regrets with my Civic, but if I had a choice now, I think would go for the Protege 5 (which wasn't available at the time).
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, North Carolina, US
Rep Power: 0 I dunno, but all I have to say is that I've had my 2k1 civic sedan for almost a year now, and I've yet to hear any rattles or anything like that (and I thought I abuse it too much doing stupid sh*t like power slides and stuff). The only time I've had to take it to a shop was this weekend for the 8000 mile scheduled maintainance (sp?). My mom drives a 2k M Class Benz and that thing has been back for repairs more times than i can count.
I'm happy with my civic.
I'm happy with my civic.
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: West Hills, California, US
Rep Power: 0 Remember Consumer Reports is FAR from unbiased or particularly scientific. They base most of their reports on what their subscribers will say, which is based more on personal feelings than relaity in more cases than not. I remember one year they recommended the Mitsubishi 3000GT but said to avoid the Dodge version of the exact same car, the only difference was the exterior badging but the reports were completely different.
Also remember that Honda and the Civic has an almost legendary reputation for reliability, you can only go down from the top.
The fact that the 7th Gen civic is a relatively new deisgn with a new drivetrrain, different suspension, different everything is going to make a dent it reliability reports no matter who is making the car. When you ramp up production of a new car there WILL be problems, whether it's with the components that make up the car, the design or the manufacturing process there are just too many variables. These issues will be corrected and the reliability numbers will gradually even out.
A aperfect example is the Focus, Ford screwed up big time when they ramped up North American production of the Focus, despite the proven European design that was >99% unchanged for the US market there were still issues with some of the components, couple that with the fact that Ford was in a VERY recall-happy mode in 2000 thanks to the Exploder/Firestone fiasco and the Early 2000 Focus was the subject of an disgustingly large amount of recalls. Yet my 2000 Focus (built in May 2000) only has had a couple of recalls, the 2001s only had 1 and so far none on the 2002s.
Also remember that Honda and the Civic has an almost legendary reputation for reliability, you can only go down from the top.
The fact that the 7th Gen civic is a relatively new deisgn with a new drivetrrain, different suspension, different everything is going to make a dent it reliability reports no matter who is making the car. When you ramp up production of a new car there WILL be problems, whether it's with the components that make up the car, the design or the manufacturing process there are just too many variables. These issues will be corrected and the reliability numbers will gradually even out.
A aperfect example is the Focus, Ford screwed up big time when they ramped up North American production of the Focus, despite the proven European design that was >99% unchanged for the US market there were still issues with some of the components, couple that with the fact that Ford was in a VERY recall-happy mode in 2000 thanks to the Exploder/Firestone fiasco and the Early 2000 Focus was the subject of an disgustingly large amount of recalls. Yet my 2000 Focus (built in May 2000) only has had a couple of recalls, the 2001s only had 1 and so far none on the 2002s.
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 0
From: Oakland, California, US
Rep Power: 0 It would be hard to conceive that the engines were built in America... that would totally change my perspective in Honda's quality but I can't believe that yet.
I've encountered some issues with my Civic, and I deal with the minor ones knowing that even though the car came from a top notch car maker who's overall quality has been notorious since it's introduction in America. But I can believe that with a new build, there's gonna be issues, and if this is really a short change of quality in Honda's automobiles, it's too early to know. A reputation is earned by what's delivered over the years... the new Civic has barely been here 3 years. It's kind of too early to expect much, but be considerate of the new car that's been brought out on the market... and besides... not everything stays the same. With the changes of a new car, there are bound to be problems. In some instances there may be another car company who can surpass Honda in certain aspects of build quality... that's reality for you. Honda is not perfect.
I've encountered some issues with my Civic, and I deal with the minor ones knowing that even though the car came from a top notch car maker who's overall quality has been notorious since it's introduction in America. But I can believe that with a new build, there's gonna be issues, and if this is really a short change of quality in Honda's automobiles, it's too early to know. A reputation is earned by what's delivered over the years... the new Civic has barely been here 3 years. It's kind of too early to expect much, but be considerate of the new car that's been brought out on the market... and besides... not everything stays the same. With the changes of a new car, there are bound to be problems. In some instances there may be another car company who can surpass Honda in certain aspects of build quality... that's reality for you. Honda is not perfect.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,636
Likes: 0
From: Central PA, Pennsylvania, US
Rep Power: 0 <<
The 2k1 civic was built 95% in Ohio and 5% in Japan the tranny was the only thing in my car that came from Japan. As far as the reliability is concerned Honda has gone to **** in that department. If they hadn't rushed to build the 2k1 they may have done a little better. Here in the states the Focus was killing the Civic on sales so they rushed it.
>>
actually its 75% USA and 20% Japan why dont you look on the sticker that came on your car
as for the engine - USA , tranny - Japan ...all information THAT WAS ON YOUR WINDOW STICKER
