Dorothy

Okay. I've gotten a faxed copy of the latest work order. This was an off site Honda specialist. It states:

"Diagnose stalling problem. ECM going into closed loop seconds after starting. ECM not learning system and needs replaced. Front O2 sensor was wrong type and had to be replaced. Car has no more stalling problems.

N/S 1.00 O2 sensor heated front 1 opt-close to end of useful life $119.58

N/S 1.00 ECM Computer 1 opt-close to end of useful life $177.87

Labor $125.00

Tax $20.82

Total : $443.27

This is a repair order not an invoice"

My next question is: I am having to buy a new ECM computer because of the faulty or wrong part installed by the original mechanic? In other words did the wrong sensor cause the ECM to malfunction?

I haven't confronted the owner of the shop with anything yet. I want to have my ducks in a row before I do so.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

this guy has no clue what hes talking about. Why the hell would the ECU need to be replaced because the wrong sensor was installed. The reason it will not learn correct idle is due to the wrong sensor being there in the first place! That is how the ecu calculates warmup time, based on readings from the 02 sensor. which if you are a stupid mechanic and put the 2ndary in place of the primary, ofcourse it wont work right. 99% of the time the ecu NEVER needs replacing, unless the whole thing got fried and in that case the car would not even work at all. fyi, the ecu costs upwards of $1k for a new one. so did they replace the "primary" sensor with a new one and it fixed the problem? who installed the old one which was supposedly the wrong one? i would go back and complain for a full refund. and a new ecm computer does NOT cost 177.87 lol. looks like they prolly just charged you for that and didnt even install anything. because just fixing the primary 02 sensor with a "correct" one would have fixed the problem. either that or these guys dont even know how the idle learn procedure is supposed to be done. so their order up there says everything is fixed, is that true? your car drives fine without stalling at all?

FoSho

This is why you bring your car to me at honda $75 dollars an hour........I'll cut you half an hour diagnosis of $37.50!

Dorothy

The auto shop called me today and said that the car was ready to pick up. I told them that I wasn't sure when I would be able to come pick it up as I work 6 days a week and that I would want to come in when the owner was there. End of that conversation. They called me back and ask if I had the receipt from when I first came in. I said, yes. I then told them that the receipt showed that they had installed both sensors. He then ask if I could fax them a copy of that receipt as they couldn't find their copy. I said yes. End of that conversation. A few minutes later he called again and said that there wouldn't be any charge at all and that the car was ready. I voiced concerns that I had still spent about $1k on work that was unnecessary. He said that I really did need the timing belt and other asssociated belts which was $533 of that $1K.
Now I know what your thinking because it crossed my mind too. The reason they ask if I had my receipt is that if I didn't have it then they were going to deny, deny, deny and I would have ended up paying them for their mistake. I was really disappointed in how they handled this part.
I will pick up the car tonight. I'm not really satisfied that this is resolved though. I know that I should focus on the shop that made the initial mistake but I'm also peeved with the two other shops that I took the car to. I told both of them the circumstances of how I had just had a cc and 2 O2 sensors installed and the insuing stall. Rather than look at the work that was done and checking the parts installed, they just drove it and hooked it up to their diagnostic computers. Driving the car under different conditions than I did (early morning cold conditions) didn't cause the car to stall for them so they wrongly assumed that there was no problem. Obviously, the diagnostic tools that most shops use have their weaknesses. I mean there was a real problem and they couldn't see it. Even more baffling is why didn't they just look at the 3 parts that were recently installed. Wouldn't they have seen that the front sensor was the wrong part. Remember one of these shops was a Honda dealership.
I really relieved that the car is finally fixed (I think) but I'm not sure that this is the end of this.
I want to thank all of you for your input. It has helped a lot.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

drive it and see what happens. i can walk you through the idle learn if the idle speed is still messed up. aside from that, find a new shop. its happened to me a few times too, i wont even get into it now, but i was pretty mad at the crap work i got, even from a honda dealer.

Dorothy

I picked up the car tonight after closing. It seems to run okay. However, the radio doesn't work and it worked before. At first the code read "COde err9". I pushed some buttons and it changed to "COde errE". I can't believe they gave it back to me with something else wrong with it!
The real test will be in the morning when I pull out onto the main road. This is when and where the stall occurred the most.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

umm, u prolly need the code for ur radio, thats an easy fix, dealer can tell u that one

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah the radio needs a code after battery is disconnected.

FoSho

I can get you the code...........if you don't have the radio code.
-If you don't, I need the serial # off the back of the radio.
-You'll have to remove the radio to get the code.
-1 trick to try is to hold the 1&6 radio preset buttons, then turn the radio on with the power button. If your car is new enough a code will be displayed on the radio. Right down the entire code & I'll look it up for you. It's saturday today....I'll be at work until 2 pm central time....or I can do it on monday for you. Hit it up!

Dorothy

actually, I stopped by the Midas shop that did the work because I thought it was their responsibility to reset the code (which it was). They pulled the radio out, called the Honda people (?) and got codes but couldn't get it to reset. 2 hours later they told me that I would have to take it by a Honda dealership and get them to do it. They also said that they tried 4 times to get it to work and that if you try too many times that the radio will shut down completely.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

ya and if somehow they messed up typing in a 4 number code that many times, you can just pull out the fuse and try another 4 times. they are stupid. i dont think they even did anything. if they actually took the radio out, told dealer the serial number and got the radio code, all it takes is pressing the buttons. if they cant even do that, i seriously wonder how they still in business.

Dorothy

I know it's been quite a while since I started this thread but I thought I would get back to you all and let you know how it was resolved.
Using instructions from off of the internet, I pulled my radio out and found that they had written down the wrong numbers. I called a Honda dealership that I had been working with and they gave me the correct code to get the radio working.
I then filed a complaint with my credit card company against the shop that installed the wrong part which caused all the problems. Because I had written proof that the shop had made the errors that caused the stall, the credit card finally agreed with me and credited my account for about $600.
I have since found a Honda specialist that I will use in the future for any work done on my car.
Again, thanks for all of your input.

Dorothy

I was reading these old post and thought that I would update everyone that was so helpful in resolving this problem.
I'm really glad that there are good mechanics out there like you guys to lend a helping hand to someone when they are being taken advantage of.
The Honda Civic is still running like a charm.
Thanks!