Dorothy

I have a 2000 Honda Civic EX (automatic transmission). Back in April I took it in to have an aftermarket catalytic converter installed along with 2 new sensors. After the work was done the car started stalling the next morning as I pulled out onto a busy street with fast moving traffic. It is definitely a dangerous situation and it happens a lot. After taking it to several mechanics (over a period of months) and them telling me that they couldn't get it to stall so they couldn't do any work on it, my check engine light came on. I took it back to the mechanic who originally installed the converter and sensors. It turns out that the converter was burned up. They agreed that obviously something is wrong with the car to cause it to heat up and cause damage to both the converter and the O2 sensor so soon after putting in a new one. They replaced the converter and O2 sensor and did a 3 step fuel induction cleaning. The car continued to stall. They finally got it to stall for them and the mechanic assigned to the job said that the timing belt needed replacing (causing the timing to be off a lot) and that this problem was probably causing the rich fuel ( I may be misquoting here) to be dumped into the converter causing it to burn up the converter. He was positive that this would fix the stall and keep the converter from burning up again. He installed a new fuel filter, tested the fuel injectors, and installed a new timing belt (along with other new belts). The stall persist. He is now looking for a used ECM to see if that is the problem.
I have spent a lot of money trying to get my car to run properly. Now I'm thinking of just trying to sell it and find a better car. It will be a hard sell since the car doesn't run properly now. I guess my question is: How much should I expect to pay for a replacement ECM? and do you think that this may really be the solution?

toke101

why do so many civics have problems with the o2 sensors...i gota go get mine replaced 2marow too wtf.

manahoonie

does your state have a Lemon Law?

how long did you have the car before these problems started?

do you have stock parts to put back on and see if it persists?

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

do it yourself pal and save yourself a few hundred bucks..

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

I had a little bit of a similar problem my car stalled out on me and wouldn't even start. Turned out that my engine was running rich, it started dumping too much fuel into the cat and clogged up the cat. Honda kept telling me there was nothing wrong till about the third time they had it up on the lift and it died on the mechanic and he couldn't get it running again. it had nothing to do at all with the timing, are cars just for some reason tend to run rich. Is there anything else you hooked up to your car electrical? The reason I ask is honda tried to blame the problem on an aftermarket tack that I had hooked up a month earlier.

Dorothy

I live in Georgia and I think that the lemon laws only apply to new cars. I bought mine about 2 years ago and it was used. The car came from Louisiana and could have possibly been caught in the hurricane, Katrina. I guess I should look into the lemon laws in this state especially if the dealer sold it to me knowing that it had been in a flood. I can't prove that however.

skipbarber

iTrader: (34)

your mechanic needs to hook up a scanner and find out whats causing the car to run so rich. it sounds to me like he just loaded up and started shooting parts at your car. A scanner will tell you what all the sensors are reading and if one of them is skewed or doesnt make sense, thats probably your problematic sensor. Last time I saw this at my shop it turned out to be a faulty MAP sensor.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yea wtf? car running too rich has nothing to do with any of that stuff he fixed. maybe the cat, but for it to clog that fast your car must smell like a gas station and have 10hp. check the obvious. spark plugs, make sure there is not a big animal living in your intake, clean air filter, check header for carbon buildup etc. and clean out your throttle body and attached IAC valve. normally the 02 sensors determine a/f ratio, so if replacing those didnt fix it, theres something physically disrupting the mixing.

you can try to check carfax for the flooding it may be there.

toke101

eff dat i have a 2 month warenty on my whip...i aint payin for anything lol

Dorothy

I talked to the mechanic today and he said that they have hooked up a scanner and scanned the car carefully.

I had mentioned that the mechanic had done a "3 step fuel induction cleaning". I have read somewhere that using additives can hurt the MAP sensor. See quote below.

Honda Owner Tips

Tip 1: Don't Do It! Don't spray that Carburetor Cleaner or Ether in your Honda throttle body. . .

For all fuel-injected Hondas. . .

If you have a fuel-injected Honda, don't do it - - - never spray Carburetor Cleaner or Ether into the throttle body. The fumes will make their way to the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) Sensor and will cause it to burn out.


The stall was occurring before they did this procedure. But additives could have been added by an earlier mechanic. If we go back a little further in the history of this car, it conked out on me back in Oct of 2006, I had it towed to a local mechanic who did a major tune up on it. When they returned the car to me the "check engine" light was on. The code indicated that it was the catalytic converter malfunctioning. I was told that the car needed a tune up so badly that the process could have loosened up trash that fouled up the converter. I drove the car with the "check engine" light on until it was time for a tag and the obligitory emmissions test. It was at that time that I had the second mechanic (his price was much more affordable) install the first of two converters. Is it possible that the MAP sensor got fouled by the first mechanic doing the major tune up?

Anyway, I'll call the shop where the car is and ask them about maybe checking the MAP sensor.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

its possible but rare for a map sensor to foul. and the thing about needing tune up so bad is a lie. ive seen cars go hundreds of thousands of miles without any kind of cleaning service. stalling to me says dirty throttle body or iac valve. in the 7thgen, it is the sensor on the side that lets air in at idle. does the stall only happen when the car is idleing? if so it may be just a clogged sensor. i had to clean mine out once before.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

a used civic ecu is about $100 on ebay. Usually the electrics on honda last a long time. My 94 integra has 175k on it and the electrics are still perfect. If your ecu was dying, you would have other problems then your car just stalling.

I would try taking the car to a shop that specializes in hondas. It seems like the ones your going to are just throwing parts at the car rather then diagonsing the problem.

Right when your cars about to stall, does reving the car keep it from stalling?

for example putting it into neutral and reving?

also how many miles on the engine? When i had my auto camry, it use to stall as well, due to a dying idle motor, but when i revved it. The car stayed alive.

Try cleaning the IAC first. This is the easiest and cheapest way solution.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

since you mention ecu, there is a software update for 01 in regards to a stall problem.

Dorothy

I have taken it to a Honda dealership and they couldn't find a stall. One of their employees even drove it home and still didn't experience a stall. They did say that they experienced a "slight" hesitation. I was going to leave it there and come drive it for them the next day and try to simulate the same conditions under which I experienced the stall but didn't do so. I guess if they don't get it to stall then they won't just take my word for it.

The stall doesn't happen everyday and usually only when I crank the car and drive it a short distance to the main road then accelerate quickly to match the speed of oncoming traffic. I can avoid the stall by warming the engine up for a while and even reving the motor a little but this only ignores the real problem. When the car does stall there is no reving possible. It last a few seconds and then picks up power again. It feels like the engine isn't getting enough fuel or something is clogging up the works at one end or the other.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

that sounds like classic clogged IAC valve. i know exactly what that feels like. clean out the tb like in the pics or similar, then assemble it all and relearn the idle speed. idle learn can be done by driving car to operating temp first, then shutting off and pull the negative battery clamp for a few seconds. put it back, then start the car and let it idle in park with no accessories or lights on, and do not press the gas. ten mins later, shut off car. restart and go for a drive. it should be fixed. the IAC is the sensor with the two coolant hoses going into it. you can tell them apart from the vacuum hoses because they get really hot when you warm up the engine.

Dorothy

Does this have anything to do with the converter burning up?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

well possibly. if there is not enough air going through at idle, then you will be pouring unburnt fuel into the cat which will eventually kill it. there is a small air port in the IAC valve that lets air pass around the actual tb opening when the car is at idle and the main valve is closed. so if that gets clogged, which happens quit alot, then you could get the problems you described. and you need to take off the sensor to actually clean it all up. and carb cleaner is required because that carbon is hard to scrub out.

skipbarber

iTrader: (34)

if the IAC were bad or clogged, the car would idle like ****. Not to mention the car would also trip a MIL for throttle position or idle air.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

I just cleaned my IAC. It was a pain in the butt to get too especially since one of the bolts siezed. There was a lot crap in since its been 14yrs and especially all the ash in the air from the fires.

I put it back and my car idles way better.

Anyways, just try it. All it requires is some time and its free.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

well idk, for me it was hit and miss. sometimes it idled fine, other times i could hear it struggling. no cel. and it was really dirty. also if you dont do the idle learn after resetting the ecu, the idle is very jumpy esp coming to a stop it will do weird things. i almost had it stall out on me cause i didnt get a chance to reset it and i needed to be somewhere fast. every time too i always need to do it to make the idle normal. at least for an auto trans

Dorothy

I went by the shop to check on my car today (yes, it's been in the shop this whole time) and the mechanic said that they have finally figured it out. He had finally given the car over to a Honda specialist who said that it was indeed the EMC (I don't know who the specialist is and I don't think that the mechanic is going to tell me either) . However, it's a little more complicated. He (my mechanic) said that it was the "heated front sensor" causing the problem. He said that the wrong sensor was installed. The one installed was for an Acura. He also said that his shop did not install the faulty sensor. The O2 Sensors that they installed according to my receipts were the "O2 Sensor Upstream and the the O2 Sensor Downstream". I don't know what a "heated front sensor" is. I do know that I never experienced a stall until minutes after they installed the two sensors mentioned above.

Let me give you a time line on the problems associated with this car. First it just quit on me (died/ no power). It was given a major tune up (ingnition coil- r&r/replace spark plugs, wires, cap & rotor/ cleaner [?]). When the car was returned to me the "check eng" light was on but the car ran fine. The mechanics said that it was the catalytic converter and that because the car needed a tune up so badly that trash could have come down through the system and fouled the CC. Drove with the "check eng" light on until I needed to get emissions sticker for tag. Had current mechanic put in new CC. However, they didn't have the right sensors yet, so, I drove the car a few more days until the sensors came in. They installed the sensors in a matter of minutes. I drove off of their property and that when the first stall occurred. Six months later the CC burns up again. They install a new CC and rear sensor. The stall persists. They try 3 step fuel induction cleaning but doesn't help. They install new fuel filter, timing belt, AC belt, Serpentine Belt, but it still stalls.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

dude wtf??? im kinda confused, who installed the heated sensor, and is the car fixed now??

Dorothy

Like I stated, I don't know what a "heated sensor" is. All I can tell you is that my current mechanic installed the "O2 Sensor Upstream and the the O2 Sensor Downstream". He claims that the "heated sensor" was already there and that it is the wrong part and that it is the culprit.

greeen01civic4d

iTrader: (7)

so is the problem gone then?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

heated sensor, isnt that another name for the primary 02 sensor?

Dorothy

Thank you! You gave me the answer that I was looking for. I'm not a mechanic but I do have the Chilton book on my the 2000 Honda Civic EX and what I seem to be getting out of it is that the "heated sensor" is the Primary O2 sensor.
So, the mechanic who has my car is responsible for a lot if this is true. Remember I said that the stall didn't begin until he installed both O2 sensors? He's trying to make me believe that the "heated sensor" or Primary sensor was installed by someone else and that he isn't responsible for all the ills that followed.
Just to be sure though: Is the Primary O2 sensor the same as the "heated sensor" or the "O2 sensor Upstream"?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

im not exactly sure on that, it was just a guess cause i cant think of any other sensor that would be "heated" by exhaust gas or anything else. to be honest, i think they are making stuff up and taking advantage of you being a girl, which is total bs.

okay i did some google searches, and all i am getting is "heated oxygen sensor"

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

....so yea their "heat sensor" refers to one of the O2 sensors, most likely the primary. upstream sensor is the one close to the header/exhaust manifold that calculates the air:fuel ratio. downstream is the secondary O2 sensor that is close to the catalytic converter and only monitors emissions, does not affect how the engine operates.

TemjinX2

iTrader: (11)

either the mechanic doesn't really know what he's doing or he's trying to load in up on services and parts that doesn't really address the initial problem.

I suggest you either find a different mechanic who knows more about hondas or you sell the car or trade the car in and just get a new one.

Your car is probably only worth about $4-5k and if you dropped more then $1k on the car in repairs thats already 20-25% the value of the car. There comes a point where the car is just a money pit and your better off with a different car. Newer used car or a new car.

FoSho

oh yeah man....you got hosed.........it was the wrong 02 sensor he installed. That makes so much sense. There is only 2 on that car. The heated is also your primary sensor. That will directly control fuel in a closed loop situation. Wrong sensor is sending way.....lean signals to the computer....more fuel is dumped...makes the cat burn up. If the check engine light was blinking that is a dead give away. I would believe it was the mechanic who installed the 02 sensors. Just a guess though..........

P.S. I would never ever throw parts like that at a customers car. That is just ridiculous