nick95673

iTrader: (13)

So I was looking in to a civic hybrid. then I did the math. if gas is in the area of 3 dollars a gallon and the hybrid gets 50 mpg and the others get 30 mpg with the hybrids msrp at 21850, the dx at 14560, the lx at 16510, and the ex is 18260 you would need to drive the hell out of your hybrid. if you buy a dx you can drive well over 110k miles b4 the hybrid saves you a dime. with a ex you would need to drive well over 58k miles. With an lx you would need to drive well over 86k miles. Not to mention replacement batteries. And if something goes wrong on the electric motor I have no idea how to fix it and either does my local mechanic only the dealership does.

jknudsen

There have been several news articles done on this subject. They basically state that hybrids should be bought because of their environmentally friendliness...not because of the cash savings, because there really aren't any. Also i heard another figure that said gas would have to be about 9 bucks a gallon for hybrids to be useful, and that with the current prices, you would need to drive about 420k miles before you saw any "real" savings....

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

Did you forget that you get a $2000 tax break each year for owning one?

nick95673

iTrader: (13)

for models pre 2006. the 2007 models get no credit. and i am not buying a used electric motor.

Under the Working Families Tax Relief Act of 2004, the deduction amount is limited to $2,000 for cars first put into use in 2004 and 2005. the deduction will be limited to $500 for vehicles placed in service in 2006, and no deduction will be allowed after that year.

Certain Toyota and Honda models qualify for the deduction:

Toyota Prius — Model Years 2001 through 2005
Honda Insight — Model Years 2000 through 2005
Honda Civic Hybrid — Model Years 2003 and 2005
Honda Accord Hybrid — Model Year 2005
Ford Escape Hybrid — Model Year 2005

jknudsen

The statistics i mentioned took into account the tax break....

zadscmc

If you were going to buy and ex, dx, or sx instead, then of course, the time it takes to get a return on your money may be excessive.

However, if you turn it around a little bit, here are two scenarios were it would save you money:
1. Consider if you had a budget for a car, say $22K. You could buy several different cars for that money. Then compare the HCH gas mileage to any of those cars. Calculate the gas savings, and then recompare the cars and your saving.
2. Consider what you are driving NOW. What gas mileage do you get? How long would it cost to recoup the cost of the car. For example, I drove an F150 and got 15 mpg. I replaced it with an HCH and now get about 53 mpg (and during this past summer consistently got near 60 mpg). I then calculate it the gas cost versus the payment for the car and determine my break even point.

Two factors are very important in the decision making process:
1. The amount of mileage you put on the car in a year (I do about 25K miles/year).
2. The current price of gasoline.

When you factor these, you may find that the car does pay for itself, or at least break even.

I purchased my HCH only for the mileage considerations. The car is fun to drive and I enjoy it tremendously. However, if there weren't an HCH, I would not have purchased an ex, lx, sx, or whatever other Civic there was.

BTW, during the last surge of gas prices, I only had to fill my gas tank once when the gas prices were above $3.00. With a range over 700 miles, I can get through some temporary spikes in prices.

ragingSPAM

iTrader: (8)

thats why in the UK hybrids are actually better cars just because of the fact that gas is around $6 - $9 per gallon

CiViCPrAnInG2k1

iTrader: (1)

so saving the environment with the hybrid technology is BS? how about NO.
polluting the environment is BS.

ryangt

iTrader: (2)

if the gov wants people to drive eco freindly cars they can supply them for us, i aint dishin out the cash ever for some over priced over hyped peice of hybrid crap

dre2600

I think the idea is that now that people who at least like to -try- and be environmentally conscious now can, your previous option was to buy a severely underpowered economy car, it was embarassing, at least the Prius is a half way decent car. Cost-effectiveness isn't necessarily a key selling point of a hybrid car, but some people put value on pollutining less, so taking their demands into account, the car does, economically, balance out.

ryangt

iTrader: (2)

i guess so, my goal is to mess this place up as much as i can using gas guzzlers, and grossly over powered hondas to blacked the sky's with churning tire smoke
hahaha im wasted

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i agree its not economical considering most regular civics already get 40-45 mpg, unless you do alot of city driving. but its better for the environment. I would get a car that comes out and doesn't run on gas at all. to me hybrids aren't that much better.

mrchowmein

the next gen of the toyota hybrids might be a lot cheaper than the current ones. Toyota is starting to produce the Prius in China to reduce cost, and improve efficiency of production. im sure someones gonna say "im never gonna buy a chinese made car cuz its junk". hehe. The prius is actually not really a price premium over other cars. It is sold as a midsize car. It retails for around $26Kus for the same price you could get a nice Accord, Camry, Altima or a lower end Passat and you'll barely be able to get 30mpg. But yes, the civic is more of a price premium for its class.

Civic_Racer9

iTrader: (9)

just buy the smallest gas engine u can find and get like 35+miles / gallon

thats hella good enough

EuroSpec328is

It's not only about the gas mileage. It's about the environment aswell. The hybrid is a good little car.

dre2600

I'm going to convert my Mazda3 so that it runs on coal And only that filthy, sulphur and arsenic rich coal at that.

spudracer326

iTrader: (1)

they are good in europe though where gas is up around 10 euros a gallon

dre2600

I think thats mostly just Britain, from what I can tell the rest of Europe is hovering around 1 Euro a litre (or approx. 4 Euro/gallon). You should see some of the cute 900cc cars putting around the UK, lil tiny things.

nick95673

iTrader: (13)

eco-friendly buyers already buy eco-friendly cars. so to say its an enviromental thing is hog wash. the guys driving lincoln pick up trucks will always drive them. No man is driving a explorer around town saying "man i wish i could drive something that polluted a little less." being against pollution is like being against baby rape. Your a retard if you say i love brown skys so the few that do really care get 90% of the pop to say they care too. when in all actuality most folks dont care. If people where honest concerns about pollution would be behind how many sick days do i have to use and i wonder if i can run a marathon. if a civic hybrid gets an estimated 50mpg vs a lx @40mpg if you drive from sac to la roughly 400 miles you would save 2 gallons of gas. sorry 6 dollars doesnt justify getting raped. and the 7thgens are ulev anyways.

fiatdale

iTrader: (1)

I also read somewhere that any company making hybrids hasnt taken in the account of the hazardas batteries when they die. The acid in them I believe is a lot different than a conventional 12v battery and they could cause a lot more environmental damage. I think I read that in Consumer Reports a few months back.

acjones21

iTrader: (2)

one of the worst things about hybrids is that they routinely get MUCH less MPG than they are rated at. Motor trend said that turning on the AC can kill the hybrid's mileage, and when the EPA rates them (and every car) they only go around 50mph for the highway mileage. Start going 70+mph like most commuters and your mileage suffers greatly. My little DX gets 35+mpg city or highway and its ULEV. When I get behind a 1980 F150 that is blowing black smoke I don't feel too bad.

tinman

We should ALL buy hybrids so the F150 guys have more gasoline.

Seriously, the numbers don't add up. I'll stick to my ULEV for now. Long term cost of ownership is another concern. I'd LEASE a hybrid, but never buy one.
The Prius battery cost's about $5000 and lasts (they say) 80k. We'll see.
But the car is expensive to own, sorry. It just makes you "feel good".

I drove one and liked it, though. The prius in particular IS a nice car.

We'll see what the next 10 years bring.

shroomster

just get a diesel car and STFU

CivicsRdBest

This has probably been beaten to death but the Hybrid cars tend to be fully loaded to merit their expensive prices. A hybrid Accord is similarly equipped to an Accord V6 w/ leather, and an Civic EX is similar to a hybrid Civic. That holds true for Toyota's hybrids too. So the price difference isn't as great as base models.

Anyway, buying ANY car is a gamble/risk because you don't know how long it will last. 85k miles is still a lot of miles for relatively new technology. The Civic I drive right now has more than that in less than 4 years of ownership.

Hybrids also last longer between pump refills. I am a college student and I put a couple of dollars in at a time anywhere from $7-$10, and I only put a full tank in on the weekends. I am at a gas station almost every other day. That is a lot of time I could be doing other things. If I had a hybrid, I'd be sipping less fuel and I wouldn't be hanging around the pumps so often.

Actual gas-mileage is what matters. Gasoline cars have become very efficient. EPA miles are NEVER what they claim to be becuase they are ideal conditions. I doubt an actual manufacturer will advertise such outrageous numbers, in fact, knowing Honda, they'd probably underrate them and watch as hybrid owners spread the word that they're getting more mileage than they though they would get.

tinman

Actually, that's exactly what I plan to do. But with my truck.

dre2600

Or better yet convert it to biodiesel and pay $1.00/gallon. If you go to nytimes.com, they just did a huge write up on it. Everyone thinks you have to go and get used grease too, but in reality you can buy drums of industrial grade canola for next to nothing and use those.

tinman

Yyyyyyep!
You got it! And for me it's going to be pretty easy to do. Should be a fun project, and I can tell Cali to stick it with their smog fees.

orion_squall

yeah, I agree,

No matter what it is still better than rednack driving a huge truck around in the city with no actual load in the back. Purely for the reason of his vehicle being bigger so he can maybe bully other drivers.

I would respect people who spend their money just for the sack of environment and new technology, to compensate those truck rednacks.

With unlimited pollution and gas, anyone can make big horse power big torque crap with huge displacement.

Blackpearl

I am for environmental pollution reduction! But the hybrids are not for that 100%. You can't reduce pollution drastically by producing hybrids because of higher price, low number yet.
The point is that the government provided some "help" of spreading the hybrids by different "tax treaty" to help technology development.
My opinion is that the hybrids are just "technological gates". What I mean?
Well the gas will end sooner or later, and the new technology will be hydrogen and oxygen powered cars. The transition between must be smooth to not cause economical collapse. The hybrids just prepare for the transition. They provide a technology of testing and improving electrical cars. After 20-30 -40 years we all end up having "hybrids". Change from "hybrid" to "hydrogen/oxygen" will be like an upgrade.
So yes, the hybrids are here before our eye as reminder of the "gas will not last forever".
When I come to US, I realise how much the US economy depend on gas. If the US cannot make the required changes in time before the gas is running out will be like in SF movies (eg. Mad MAX). I hope not.
So folks, think about future (not only your future) and positively contribute each of you to the “transition” (eg. carpool, alternative transportation, bike etc.).

white2K2EX

Um, do you - or anyone else - get 40-50mpg on the highway? The Civic hybrid gets 48-51mpg on the highway. No way in hell does the standard gasoline engine get 50mpg. It's a stretch to say that they could even get to 40mpg - 37-38mpg at best.