Hybrids are b.s.
Stage 7
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,171
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
Rep Power: 0 
Originally Posted by dre2600
As mentioned, there is technology to get hydrogen, I said that in my very first post: no infrastructure, no technology available for large scale implementation. Most all farmers are subsidized, but I don't see why that would end if they all started 'growing fuel'. If demand for their product goes up and supply can't keep up with demand that means the farmers are going to be making more money than if demand was low (as it is presently). I don't see how increased demand will somehow put strain on the present subsidy system in place in the US and somehow cost more. When demand goes up, and supply doesn't catch up (short term) or supply -can't- keep up (eg: oil capacity at present), prices go up, then producers get paid.
And there is no ongoing debate about the limited supply of oil and gas, it -is- limited, we might not run out today or tomorrow, but at some point we will. And demand shows no signs of abbating as the other half of the world finally industrializes on a large scale. Before we even run out, I have no doubt that we'll have fouled this planet to such a great extent that using fossil fuels will cease to be an option.
To quote Machiavelli: "There is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit from the new order. The lukewarmness arises partly from the fear of their adversaries who have law in their favour; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have actual experience of it."
I think thats the rut alternative forms of transport are stuck in, I'm not counting on a paradigm shift away from fossil fuels (even hybrids) in my lifetime.
And there is no ongoing debate about the limited supply of oil and gas, it -is- limited, we might not run out today or tomorrow, but at some point we will. And demand shows no signs of abbating as the other half of the world finally industrializes on a large scale. Before we even run out, I have no doubt that we'll have fouled this planet to such a great extent that using fossil fuels will cease to be an option.
To quote Machiavelli: "There is nothing more difficult to carry out, nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit from the new order. The lukewarmness arises partly from the fear of their adversaries who have law in their favour; and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have actual experience of it."
I think thats the rut alternative forms of transport are stuck in, I'm not counting on a paradigm shift away from fossil fuels (even hybrids) in my lifetime.
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Rep Power: 288 
Originally Posted by Kameleon
Eventually we will run out and I think the government doesn't care right now and they probably think we can keep relying on foreign oil. Hydrogen fueled cars are not the way to go, it's too explosive and corrosive to vehicles. I would like to see a water fueled concept or an all electrical car. Charge the car while not in motion or not on(overnight) and drive the next day. Could have a gauge to tell you how much charge is left, like a gasoline tach. Just my $0.02.
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by Kameleon
Eventually we will run out and I think the government doesn't care right now and they probably think we can keep relying on foreign oil. Hydrogen fueled cars are not the way to go, it's too explosive and corrosive to vehicles. I would like to see a water fueled concept or an all electrical car. Charge the car while not in motion or not on(overnight) and drive the next day. Could have a gauge to tell you how much charge is left, like a gasoline tach. Just my $0.02.
1) everyone knows that we'll run out of oil or it will become grossly expensive to use, but foresight, historically (read: for the last several millenia) is most definately not in mankind's repetoire
2) hydrogen too explosive? and gasoline is what now? the Germans used to call gas-powered Sherman tanks in WWII 'Tommy Cookers' because of their propensity to explode vs. diesel powered models
3) Water fuelled concept?! Are you suggesting to actively electrolyze/hydrolyze water while the car is in use? Where would the power to do that come from, it would take v. large amounts of current to generate enough hydrogen to power a car while it was in motion from water.
4) Electrical vehicles work well as commuter cars and a lot of people -do- have the luxury of plugging in every night, but that power still needs to come from somewhere. The idea of burning fossil fuels has become dated, at some point, renewable sources will have to be made useful. I can see the gov. falling back on nuclear before that though, or coal :\
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 Yes oil is going down, there are however still untapped reserves that amount for almost as much as the arab nations in our back yards. Canada, alaska and the four corner states with colorado have huge sand and rock deposits. You have to imagaine, American's have more cars than anyone else and this number will continue to grow. Everyone is talking about biodiesel this and that, but in reality, imagine how many acres of farm land and cultivating fields you will need to supply a growing nation with biodiesel. It would be huge, you have to think of the cost, biodiesel for fuel or food for families. Most major cities will be experiencing at least a 4-8 million increase in population coming to a new plateau in 2025 (supposedly). What they need to do is focus more on public transportation because as numbers grow, the entire freeway street and highway infrastructure will have to change as it is strained out our current numbers.
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 Hydrogen is explosive, this gas was being carried in pressurized canisters that when hit exploded violently during early tests. They finally decided to put the tank at the bottom and center of the car, but critics complained about disasters that may happen in a flip over or tumble that the car may take. That is the main reason hydrogen has developed so slowly. Similarly with water, it has been in testing for years and years, but it is to infeasible right now to accomplish on a large scale and lacks the ability to produce sufficient amounts of power for todays fasted paced roads
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by southpasdena
Yes oil is going down, there are however still untapped reserves that amount for almost as much as the arab nations in our back yards. Canada, alaska and the four corner states with colorado have huge sand and rock deposits. You have to imagaine, American's have more cars than anyone else and this number will continue to grow. Everyone is talking about biodiesel this and that, but in reality, imagine how many acres of farm land and cultivating fields you will need to supply a growing nation with biodiesel. It would be huge, you have to think of the cost, biodiesel for fuel or food for families. Most major cities will be experiencing at least a 4-8 million increase in population coming to a new plateau in 2025 (supposedly). What they need to do is focus more on public transportation because as numbers grow, the entire freeway street and highway infrastructure will have to change as it is strained out our current numbers.
As for hydrogen, tanked hydrogen isn't so viable because you can't fit awful large amounts of it into a cylinder. Enter fuel cells, which are safer and can conceivably have a larger capacity than a giant tank. Half the reasons hydrogen tanks are even prone to exploding is because of the fact that they're contained at such high pressure to hold such a large amount. Most pressurized tanks can actually take a good deal of impact.
Where do you keep getting this water thing from? I don't understand.
My SL65 rim, because a rim is all I can afford
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
From: Medina Ohio
Rep Power: 319 
The US DOT has approved a viable Hydrogen storage system. The hydrogen is stored in a solid and if cracked or punctured it DOES NOT leak hydrogen and does NOT blow up. 
My SL65 rim, because a rim is all I can afford
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
From: Medina Ohio
Rep Power: 319
Originally Posted by southpasdena
What they need to do is focus more on public transportation because as numbers grow, the entire freeway street and highway infrastructure will have to change as it is strained out our current numbers.
Last time I had this much fun some furniture got broken!
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 2
From: PA
Rep Power: 361 a hybrid to me is something I buy my girlfriend cause it costs her less every week. its easier on her. and city driving is what I am sure she will mostly do so thats where a hybrid really shines.
They have a very good use, that alot of you do not see: Innovation.
Soon they will be able to squeeze 100+ mpg out of them reliably and then all of you will stop complaining
They have a very good use, that alot of you do not see: Innovation.
Soon they will be able to squeeze 100+ mpg out of them reliably and then all of you will stop complaining
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Rep Power: 255
Originally Posted by diskreet
Soon they will be able to squeeze 100+ mpg out of them reliably and then all of you will stop complaining
Here is the thread.
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/p...0+mpg+marathon
Hybrids are better now with the new use of Electric A/C compressors, and it seems to benefit most with an SUV. We have the RX400h and it averages around 35 miles per gallon with a V6 motor. Plus, the hybrids are crazy when you try and start the car. All you see is the ready light and you're off.
Last time I had this much fun some furniture got broken!
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 2
From: PA
Rep Power: 361 yup you are right zadscmc but that requires an extremly tedious driving style. 99.9% of people will NOT see 100 mpg or higher in one of those. So thats why I did not point that out.
Although that does prove that a system made for 40-50 is capable of 100 so if they design one for about 100 people may be able to get 150 - 200 out of it.
Although that does prove that a system made for 40-50 is capable of 100 so if they design one for about 100 people may be able to get 150 - 200 out of it.
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Rep Power: 288
Originally Posted by diskreet
yup you are right zadscmc but that requires an extremly tedious driving style. 99.9% of people will NOT see 100 mpg or higher in one of those. So thats why I did not point that out.
Although that does prove that a system made for 40-50 is capable of 100 so if they design one for about 100 people may be able to get 150 - 200 out of it.
Although that does prove that a system made for 40-50 is capable of 100 so if they design one for about 100 people may be able to get 150 - 200 out of it.
Thread Starter
Registered!!
iTrader: (13)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,033
Likes: 0
From: sac
Rep Power: 289
Originally Posted by Jrfish007
The US DOT has approved a viable Hydrogen storage system. The hydrogen is stored in a solid and if cracked or punctured it DOES NOT leak hydrogen and does NOT blow up.
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by nick95673
exactly.on the hindenberg the big balloon you always see blowing up what is burning is the 80 layers of shellack they put on the skin of the air ship. NOT THE HYDROGEN!!!
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenb...#Controversies
It was the hydrogen that burned, it just so happened to burn some other things with it...
I think he meant to say that it is stored in a solid as in a solid that, when reacted with some given fluid/current/etc. would release hydrogen in the reaction. Not thats its stored in a solid container.
My rectum hurts........
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 Hybrids are the same spend of money as gas in my eyes...instead of paying for gas your paying for a car and both ways your spending money...even more for that car.....look at it this way... 40 bucks a month on gas or 200+ dollars a month on a car....arnt you suppose to be saving money not wasting more?
It's not about saving gas unless you drive a lot, but it is designed to be a environmentally friendly car. Reducing emissions will give us less smog and freak out in our weather systems.
Last time I had this much fun some furniture got broken!
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,839
Likes: 2
From: PA
Rep Power: 361 all i can say is the 06 civic lineup won car and drivers? car of the year.
hybrid included. so for the people interested, honda gives them an excellent car.
for the non believers or just people who prefer to not own one, there are plenty of other models. what it comes down to is most people here would not like it and thats it.
hybrid included. so for the people interested, honda gives them an excellent car.
for the non believers or just people who prefer to not own one, there are plenty of other models. what it comes down to is most people here would not like it and thats it.
Super Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Rep Power: 0 who cares about hybrids really? why are people concerning themselves with new "Personal" transportation. Yes its more conveniant. But imagine Los angles, in our current state, we have rush hour in most places from like 7am -5-7pm. That is feakin crazy. In 2025, los angles is predicted to have the greatest amount of population growth, almost 9 million more people. That is half of what the current population of the los angles area is, with 17 million people. Yes you could build double decker freeways, more roads, wider freeways, try to create more efficient lights and so on, but that would be a massive and unbeliviable task for such a large area. It would cost hundreds of billions of not trillions to create such a system to support efficiecently so many people. And what is there after that, after you accomadate the extra 9 million people, how bought when more come..what are we gonna do then. Think about public trans...i hate it, i like my car, but as populations grow, there really isnt to much you can do
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Rep Power: 0 Did you think about the great civilisations? Despite the high technology they had, they system just collapsed. The earth resources are limited, and if you try to squeeze out the last drop of the resources by mega metropolis then your future will not be different then those great civilisations.
So yes, the hybrids tend to “reduce” pollution but we need more of them to have effect.
So yes, the hybrids tend to “reduce” pollution but we need more of them to have effect.
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,597
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by Blackpearl
Did you think about the great civilisations? Despite the high technology they had, they system just collapsed. The earth resources are limited, and if you try to squeeze out the last drop of the resources by mega metropolis then your future will not be different then those great civilisations.
So yes, the hybrids tend to “reduce” pollution but we need more of them to have effect.
So yes, the hybrids tend to “reduce” pollution but we need more of them to have effect.
My SL65 rim, because a rim is all I can afford
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
From: Medina Ohio
Rep Power: 319
Originally Posted by nick95673
exactly.on the hindenberg the big balloon you always see blowing up what is burning is the 80 layers of shellack they put on the skin of the air ship. NOT THE HYDROGEN!!!
lease:Alright this is how it works people: Hydrogen gets put into this sponge like stuff that adsorbs it. Hydrogen is bonded to this stuff, in this state it is not explosive. Think of water, it has hydrogen in it, is it explossive? No. Same with this stuff. The only pure hydrogen in the car is a tiny amount that is about to be consumed by the car and the stuff inside the engine/fuel cell or what ever.
It's not like the hindenburg where they have mass amounts of pure hydrogen
This stuff is only slightly more explosive than water, and we all know how danagerous water is righ? My SL65 rim, because a rim is all I can afford
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 0
From: Medina Ohio
Rep Power: 319
Originally Posted by dre2600
http://spot.colorado.edu/~dziadeck/zf/LZ129fire.htm
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenb...#Controversies
It was the hydrogen that burned, it just so happened to burn some other things with it...
I think he meant to say that it is stored in a solid as in a solid that, when reacted with some given fluid/current/etc. would release hydrogen in the reaction. Not thats its stored in a solid container.
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenb...#Controversies
It was the hydrogen that burned, it just so happened to burn some other things with it...
I think he meant to say that it is stored in a solid as in a solid that, when reacted with some given fluid/current/etc. would release hydrogen in the reaction. Not thats its stored in a solid container.
Thank you
And yes it reacts with a fluid that is regenerated when you fuel back up, so there is little to no maintance required for it.
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Rep Power: 255
Originally Posted by southpasadena
Think about public trans...
So I have an HCH, to lessen the burden of fuel costs.
